American spent thousands of lives to crush Nazi shitheads like you.

But you're in luck, this is a free country where your crackpot Nazi ideals are free to fly.

Thankfully, the American people aren't taken in by your crypto Nazi shittery.

Nazi Swine.

Go ahead and sue, Nazi Swine. I live in Chicago, and Jack Klein is my name.

It can't be that hard to track me down. I'll look forward to your suit.

Nazi Swine.

First off, you don't have to be a Nazi to dislike Homosexuality.

You have taken things out of proportion, as all libs do.

"Crypto-Nazi" seems to be what you are doing, trying to deflect your own ideas.

Excellent Sbyvl36. I like your five steps.

You want to imprison "undesirables" in prison camps. That's pretty authoritarian Nazi shit there.

I would expect nothing less from a Nazi Swine (I'm thinking of alternating between Nazi Swine and Nazi Shithead to honor Eddie Izzard. Thoughts?)

Sbyvl - Thank you kindly for ignoring my points. You would really kick butt at debate 101.

You keep harping on how America thrived on tariffs pre-Wilson. That's because 1) We were coming out of the mercantilist system which was wholely based on tariffs and 2) America in the late 1800s is best comparable to a combination of China and the US today. Lots of innovation, but materials were dirt cheap and labor was even cheaper. Now? To make anything these days you'll need materials from Africa. Stuff like titanium, magnesium, bauxite and half a hundred other alloys. Or rubber from south america. All of these things would have to be imported and be hit by your tariff. Back in your day, things were made of materials that abounded in America - steel, iron, copper, etc. That means their manufacturing wasn't hit as hard by tariffs as today's would be. So, in order to bring manufacturing back to the US, you would essentially make material costs skyrocket while lowering taxes.

And you want to strengthen the dollar. Yet....imposing tariffs would drastically reduce the demand for the dollar. Because people wouldn't want to buy American goods. Which would cause the dollar to depreciate, not appreciate.

Are you picking up what I'm putting down?

He admits he is wrong. How very nice. I accept your apology. I think he wants to send us all to death camps himself, considering the track record of other commies. Need I bring out the list again?

Your derangement is impressive, and you'd fit right in with the crackpots and cranks surrounding your Fuhrer, Nazi Shithead.

Make sure you spell my name right when you're making the list of people you're going to have shipped off to death camps.

@Goldfinger: No. You make some good points, but the economy would still do better with tariffs, because American businesses wouldn't be paying them, thus keeping our companies in the green, and keeping everyone else out, unless they move their business here, which would benefit us further.

@Jack Klein: For the final time before I mute you, I never said we should put anyone in death camps. I never said we should kill anyone. So Shut Up

Ok, my work here is done. Almost two pages of trolling the shit out of Nazi Swine here (yeah, I'm gonna keep that, way too much fun).

Have fun, Nazi Swine. Jack Klein, I live in Chicago, Wicker Park. Make sure your jackbooted thugs don't accidentally arrest and/or shoot the neighbors, they're cool and brew their own beer.

I'll be back tomorrow to mock you more, Nazi Swine.

"But the economy would still do better with tariffs, because American businesses wouldn't be paying them"

I think you missed the ball that goldfinger just pitched here. The point is that American businesses would have to pay them indirectly because they would lead to higher material costs, for raw materials that aren't plentiful in America but are elsewhere.

How would American businesses not be paying for them? Higher material costs trickle through the whole economy. That's why the price of bread is affected by the price of gas. The tariffs would cause everyone to move their manufacturing out of the country, exacerbating a problem that already exists.

*exists and is starting to reverse.

@Damian: Then make the materials here.
@goldf Lets try it before you make wild assumptions

Goldfinger, import tariffs funded our government for well over 100 years through some of the most vigorous economic expansion in our history.

We can't impose import tariffs though as long as we belong to the WTO and such.

You *can't* make most of those materials here when 90% of the world's deposits of them are in Africa or Mongolia, Sbyvl. That applies to pretty much every electrical device ever.

@Emac - note my comparison to China. They could put whatever tariff they want and their economy would still grow by leaps and bounds. That's because it's their time. The 1800s were our time and Great Britains time. Now, our economy is struggling to be competitive, and tariffs will not help that. In the 1800s, we had almost no competition for our goods.

"Then make the materials here."
Not all materials can be made in a cost efficient manner. How do you propose we acquire various rare metals, that aren't abundant in America, but are required for modern manufacturing processes.

make it here? the fuck are we supposed to do, alchemy?

Goldfinger your post is hard to follow. Who is the third person in your first sentence, "they, their, they" China? I have no idea what you mean by "it's their time." Are you saying that some cosmic force controls economic growth? I hate to tell you this, but it's been our time since 1865 FYI, and still is. Our economy is struggling to stay competitive with who? Europe is a freaking economic disaster zone. China? Whatever you mean by "we had almost no competition for our goods" when you mentioned both Great Britain and the United States in the previous sentence. Abandon your overuse of the third person and state your thoughts explicilty.

My "it's been out time since 1865" is the United States.

Japan has virtually no natural resources yet their economy did quite well in the last half century.

Japan has no tariffs on Paper, Rubber and other industrial commodity imports, when the value of the import is less than 100000 yen.

Funny how that works.

@Emac - note my comparison to China. China could put whatever tariff they want and China's economy would still grow by leaps and bounds. That's because it's China's time. The 1800s were the United States' time and Great Britains time. Now,the US economy is struggling to be competitive, and tariffs will not help that. In the 1800s, the US had almost no competition for our goods.

Yes, your example of Japan is correct. How and ever, Japan has almost no import tariffs.

http://www.customs.go.jp/english/tariff/2013_4/index.htm

If you look on the right where it says its trade agreements with it's neighbors and major mining countries (Chile, Indonesia, Malaysia, ASEAN, etc etc) you'll see lot's and lots of "free"s.

No in fact you are mistaken. Japan has had significant tariffs on targeted goods, specifically rice and beef. In fact you can only import rice into Japan in partnership with the government. You should visit Japanese customs and see the various tariffs. http://www.customs.go.jp/english/tariff/2013_4/index.htm

That's because Japan grows most of it's own rice. Kinda how we subsidize our own cotton and corn production. Beef isn't a natural part of the Japanese diet and isn't consumed in as large quantities as fish over their either.

But we're talking raw materials here. I went through the entire section on cements, metals and minerals and found almost zero tariffs.

Remarkably rice and beef aren't required for producing consumer goods to export. Both myself and Goldfinger examined the tariffs. As both of said you will notice the lack of tariffs on many important goods. Additionally Japan had high tariffs in the list war years and only began to boom after the lowering of tariffs and the liberalization of their economy

And yes, a cosmic force controls economics. It's called the invisible hand. I mean, the Asian Tigers rose for a reason when they did. America rose for a reason when it did. But you can't just keep rising and rising up and up above the others (relatively). It doesn't work that way unless you have some external price controls (colonialism, mercantilism, imperialism) to keep factor endowments favorable to certain countries.