"Come off it Putin, lots of churches just giggle at that kinda stuff"

Most of them don't. And sorry I don't care what a handful of "moderates" do when the vast bulk of their ilk are ruining this and many other countries.

Oh step off it Putin. you act all high and mighty, but really you aren't. hell, you are sitting here trying to tear down another persons religion over the internet! does that bring you joy? is that how you get off? fact of the matter is, I came into this pushing for acceptance. we don't have to agree, we just need to be respectful of each others opinions. that's how I came into it, that's how I am leaving it. you feel your way, I feel mine. you think it's a load of crap, I'd die for my god. take it how you want, I'm done with it.

Joy? No. But pardon me if I don't bat an eye for a religion whose members just bombed a Planned Parenthood. If you want me to have a live-and-let-live view of religion, then religion needs to stop terrorizing everybody else.

Jeez Putin, you sound quite similar to the same Christian types who think all Muslims are terrorists. You can't judge every member by what the minority (or even the majority!) does. I believe we have a word for that, and it's a word you don't like.

You have to take each person's values, statements, and actions in their own right, and I challenge you to find one statement butterhead has made that fits into the picture you have painted of Christianity in general. Have you even ASKED him how his values compare to yours?

"And sorry I don't care what a handful of "moderates" do when the vast bulk of their ilk are ruining this and many other countries."

Dude, you SHOULD! These people are proof that religion doesn't have to be the enemy - they don't have to be closeminded or bigoted. They can see the separation of church and state.

Also what is the "CP?" I don't know this term.

I used to think that, then I had my state legislature pass a Heartbeat law. I've seen mandatory vaginal probes be on the brink of implementation. I've seen Contraception coverage come under attack. We're under full fledged assault by the religious. If there are people who don't support their co-religionists extremism, it's because they've assimilated into secular culture, and are nothing more than cafeteria Christians. But I'm not going to cease attacking evil ideas of Christianity, any more than you anti-communists cease attacking Marxism. The ideas are evil whether their adherents follow them closely or not.

"Also what is the "CP?" I don't know this term."

Communist Party.

And D00D, why are you defending these people all of a sudden? I swear you follow wherever the popular winds go at the moment. Do you just want to be liked, or what?

Haha despite my general agreement with much of what you just said, it sounds like you're saying that if a Christian isn't a fanatical bible thumping zealot then he isn't a true Christian? I don't think that's true at all. In fact, the more moderate Christians are the ones we should be trying to emphasize. We need to present to everybody that you can be both Christian and tolerant.

Anyways, please do continue to attack the evils of Christianity (and there are many!) but it's not really fair for you to wave them as an accusation at Butterhead just because he's a member. He doesn't have to answer for that, anymore than I'd expect you to answer for Stalin's gulags. Now, if you find some specific moral value he is trying to impose upon us in the name of Christianity (like the rather disgusting examples you've already provided), then shred his ass into a million tiny pieces, man.

But do it because you have a specific issue to take, not just because he's a Christian.

I'm not. Your new buddy here is trying to say that we can't touch Christianity at all. That it's off limits. And all because why? Because he exists and claims not to be a fanatic? Sorry that doesn't cut it. Christianity is fair game.

"And D00D, why are you defending these people all of a sudden?"

You've seen me argue right alongside you against some of the more bilious garbage. But I haven't heard butterhead yet make any claims that I feel impinge on my civil liberties, or anybody else's for that matter- so he's fine in my book. Everybody has the right to pick their own delusion if they want.

Yes, it is fair game. I guess I have nothing to add to that :P

I guess my point with you is the same as it always is - you are alienating a person who might otherwise be quite agreeable with you for the sake of scoring a few cheap shots. I don't know why I bother - that's how you roll and you like it that way :)

There is no way not to 'alienate' this person. He'd make a big stink about being some 'alienated' Christian no matter what I said. He wants his religion to have no accountability whatsoever.

That's the problem with you YJ, you don't know who the real enemy is. You're jumping up and down about Butterhead here when you're insulting a supposed allied atheist much more than I have ever even dreamed of saying anything about Butterhead. But that's par for the course with the Tone Police, around here.

Wait, what? I didn't insult you (for once), did I? But I agree I don't know who your enemy is. You seem to think it's anybody who doesn't agree with you exactly - hell you often treat ME like the political enemy and we agree on the vast majority of issues that are actually on the current political table.

I tend to think we should look for allies on a per struggle basis. I don't care what God somebody wants to follow - if he's gonna vote for and fight for the issues I'm gonna vote for and fight for then I can and will work with him.

"He wants his religion to have no accountability whatsoever."

Wait, you can't hold a religion accountable, that's like trying to hold the tenets of communism accountable for the atrocities done in its name. If you want accountability, you need to challenge specific cases and those that perpetuated them.

Do I have to keep reading? I just got through half of Joshua and this supposed good guy just got finished ordering genocide, rape and plunder. This is one awful protagonist.

I love this site.
http://www.thebricktestament.com/

The Brick Testament is the best.

You would like us to read the whole Bible? Wouldn't my time be better spent doing community service?

You can always do community service. But you only have to read the whole Bible once.

Just read the first and last chapters. The middle is just filler. Seriously.

So you only read Genesis and Revelation? Those are like, the craziest parts?

Not sure why that second sentence was a question. Sorry.

I read the whole thing, can't get the time back :(
Crazyyyyyy good!? (there the universe is rebalanced)

Actually the book of Job is worth a read, if only to understand how the 'good lord' plays the game. (Hint: He's a jerk)

And its Revelations with an s. Oops I just stole a job off draugnaur, sorry Big D!

@fiedler - Ah, but He just let Satan do that shit to Job. He didn't do it Himself, and then He rewarded Job for his faithfulness by making him a much richer (not just in wealth) man afterwards. Although, I have to say there is *no* replacing loved ones. And I should point out that Job was written as a Hebrew poem/story, so isn't to be taken literally.

But for a good story, read Jonah. Despite all Jonah did to resist Him, God kept giving him chance after chance to redeem himself and be obedient.

@Draugnar -- but in a Biblical view, you don't "lose" loved ones in a permanent sense, because life on earth is a moment in eternity, and everything in the book is focused on the eternal, not the now.

I have to or you want me to? There's plenty of things I want other people to do, but that never happens...

Actually, it's The Book of Revelation of John...not Revelations...

@Fielder - Just read Gensis and Revelation?!?!? Funniest thing I've head in a long time...and perhaps downright brilliant! You have a fantastically distorted view of the Bible, and yet it's a view with some of the *best* Hollywood imagery!