@JMO: "Krellin, the similarities to Hitler are quite accurate in terms of your insistence that a superior race"

YOU FUCKING IDIOT. As is usual, you are so wrapped up in your prejudice against me, coupled with our infitely poor reading skill.

I've never mentioned anything about a "superior race" you ridiculous fucktard. But I do believe that the Europeans that came to the US had a superior culture.

But I know you are such a simple minded twat that when I say "white" in reference to the conflict between Indians and settlers, you naturally assume I meant race, versus culture...because you are an obvious Libtard tool always seeking to cast the racism label whenever possible to try to discredit someone. I understand why you do it...it's because you have no logical arguments, and simply screaming RACIST!! at the top of your lungs every time you have a disagreement with someone is your easy way out.

I have ALSO said that the Indians would have won had they a superior culture with which to defeat the white settlers....so....duhhhhh...how could I possibly be saying the race was the thing which made someone superior, when I have clearly said that other factors were the determinate point of discussion.

jmo....I'm sure you wet yourself with glee every time you scream your insults at me....and it please me to no end to know how much I piss your pathetic small mind off.

Now go find yourself some oppressed person to lift out of their misery, becuase I'm certain you are convinced that most of the world can never succeed in this world without your assistance which, of course, you believe you are able to give to others because....wait for it....you are a priviledged white guy and only you have the power to help those poor damned downtrodden dark-skinned folk....

Which of course makes you the eternal bigot and....given your liberal superiority complex as a white dude....much more like....wait for it....Hitler, for whom one race was able to lift up or destroy others.

You DO think that no non-white group can succeed without whitey, don't you? Isn't that part of your Liberal creedo?

Yeah.....now sush, little bigot boy.

Wait. There are people who don't have Krellin muted?

Krellin, can you cite for me what makes European Culture in the colonial age superior to the people they conquered?

A. If you say its medicine, the majority of the illnesses that Europe had overcome, were illnesses that never occurred in Native American culture. We can discuss many reasons why, but better diets, and better use of the land are certainly in favor of Native Americans.

B. If you say architectural advancements. Again this is fairly subjective. I dont know how you can argue that the Mayan Pyramids, the Incan Roads, the Cahokia Mounds are inferior to really pretty much anything ever made in Europe.

C. If you say Europe was better at written word, theology, and philosophy, okay fair. I will say that Europe developed more advancements in Theology, well, we still die and dont know where we go when we do, so I dunno about that. If you say Philosophy, sure, but Native Americans certainly werent unintelligent people. They knew the value of life, they had their own creation stories, and most definetely valued the land for the gifts it offered.

D. If you were to say Europe had better weaponry, I dont even think thats a dispute. Im pretty sure civilizations throughout history have risen and fallen based on the weapons they have. Enemies with inferior weapons tend to lose. So yea, Europe had better weapons, and shittier diets and managed to pretty much eradicate an otherwise benign and unassuming race of people who merely wanted to enjoy life.

Finally, the last thought I have on this concerns once again Advancements. For Native Americans, advancements went hand in hand with philosophy and religion. Take Mesa Verde for example. The unique below ground chambers in Mesa Verde are seldom seem anywhere else but in the Americas. The chambers were wells, which helped the tribes to survive severe droughts. as a result the tribes beleived god dwelled beneath the earth because naturally anything that allows life to grow and prosper, civilizations tend to attribute deity like qualities too. They built their entire civilization around these wells and these cliff dwellings. This is a common theme throughout European and all human history. Human beings in the Paleolithic Era felt a need to draw in caves. Native Tribes of the American Southwest felt the need to produce Petroglyphs using the very same iconography seen in Lascaux and Chauvet.

So the question would be, how do you see these people as backward and inferior? all Humans began drawing on rock walls to record stories. It happened on every continent on the planet the same way. If you dont know that, thats on you.

I dont think our culture is superior to Native American culture even today to be honest. We have poisoned Native American culture the same way that the American way has damaged African American culture. America is very much a 'me-first' place that cares about the individual over the collective good.

It is obvious how little America cares about Native Americans when you think about the extreme double standards we offer them. Firstly we place tons of gas stations and liqour stores in White Clay just outside the reservations so they can drive and load up on booze. Nobody cares about alcohol crossing state lines, or problems with Alcoholism on tribal lands.

Oh but wait, heres an interesting moment, young people smuggling pot across oklahoma, kansas, and Nebraska is going to the supreme court. Weed is apparently destroying law enforcements ability to battle problems in small counties along these borders. Evidence rooms filling up, misdemeanors galore. "Its all Colorado's fualt" they scream.

White Clay? wheres that? I am quite stunned at this point that the best we can do for Native Americans is to trash their land with a pipeline and give them booze and a big fat tribal check at 18 years of age. We really should be ashamed of how we live in this country.

There are actually systems in place that give Native Americans that work hard the ability to become quite successful. There are several considerable price deductions that make getting an education easier. My roommate is a Native American who has told about his use of these systems. Just because Natives get screwed over doesn't mean everything white people do involving them is a raw deal.

Ogion please mute me. I don't want to challenge your echochamber, so this sounds like the safe solution.

"I've never mentioned anything about a "superior race" you ridiculous fucktard. But I do believe that the Europeans that came to the US had a superior culture."

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European culture was superior because it was progressing, whereas North American Indian culture was pretty much stagnant. You can argue that stagnation at that level avoids pitfalls such as climate change and ozone damage, but the reality is that if the world's other human populations didn't exist them humanity would potter along until getting wiped out the next time Yellowstone erupts.

European culture has progressed and continued to advance and evolve and survive through devestating crisis throughout history.

North American indian culture, while adapt at producing pretty beaded jewelry and running casinos, has....well...no disrespect intended, but life on the reservation, by any account, is less than swell...

"Progress" by killing one's own species is a seriously weird way to prevent extinction.

Besides, I don't imagine that Europeans in the colonial age knew what extinction really was. Evolution on the whole was laughed at until much later.

I think bo is correct when he assumes not knowing about one obviously and inherently means you don't know about the other. Nothing ever went extinct before the colonial age. The Romans couldn't have possibly killed all the Syrian elephants because they didn't know about evolution. The aurochs went into hiding, not extinction, because the Polish people during the era of colonialism had no idea of evolution.

Why is knowledge of evolution or extinction relevant? What matters is the advancement of human knowledge and understanding. At various times in the last few thousand years that advancement has been spearheaded by Europe, the Middle East, and China (give of take). The native peoples of North America, after the initial extinction events in large complex animals that has accompanied virtually all periods of human ascendency, found something of a comfort zone and stopped making notable improvements.

I don't for a moment think there's anything inherent to the people that causes this. I suspect that it's largely an accident of geography and climate. Nature was always going to provide conditions that force cultural evolution more rapidly in some places than others.

That was to bo :)

My point was that what we now consider basic fact, such as extinction events like the Yellowstone volcano, weren't basic facts in the 16th century.

I'm pretty sure Yellowstone erupting will not be differentiating between what civilizations use iPad and which believe horses are a spirit animal. T
Yellowstone is unbiased like an Asteroid. So what do European innovations have to do with ability to survive extinction events?

If the earth ended who cares what your civilizations did. How arrogant are we to assume native American culture simply advanced to a reasonable human level of development? I don't think we can make such absurd myopic comments.

"If a comet splits the earth in half after earth is gone does our ability to claim we made html4 still mean alot?"

If the world ended, who cares whether or not I was a dick in life?

God cares TrPrado. Are you trying to make Jesus week from his man vaghole?

Weep*

What the fuck

@brainbomb

Nuclear bunkers, tinned food, space flight, flight, breath masks, power stations... Seriously, there are countless inventions that make western culture far more likely to survive a Yellowstone eruption than what we'd have is native indian culture was all the world had. Including iPads, yes. And that's not even touching on rather important sciences such as vulcanology. Not even counting everything that will come that's built on the foundations of western culture.

Which is all rather fortunate because Yellowstone erupting is one of life's little certainties along with tides and taxes.

Which is amazing. You must be of the impression that Mark Watney could live on mars forever. Some things are meant to come to an end. The human race may yet prove to be one of them.

Yellowstone erupting is a endgame. It's a wipe the slate clean event. Tinfoil hats and bunkers won't do shot to just delay it all. Sure we can orbit earth. Crash land on mars. Or shoot the moon for Kepler 1112b. If/when Yellowstone goes the best warning won't be from volcanology. It'll be the bison and wolves inexplicably fleeing the area ahead of time.

For a our predictable science in geology, tectonics and volcanoes we only know San Andreas is 'overdue' We only know Yellowstone 'could pop' anytime.

The human race is almost certainly one of them. But ideally later rather than sooner. Modern society, which western culture has been carrying the baton for in recent centuries, has now advanced to the stage where some traditional extinction events are now survivable, and many culture destroying events can be weathered with our history, achievements and technology preserved. For any species this is a remarkable achievement.

Native American culture, as impressive as it has been in recent centuries in terms of harmonious living, would not have gotten us here. The universe is brutal and unforgiving, as much as it is beautiful and magnificent. European culture was simply a better fit.

"If/when Yellowstone goes the best warning won't be from volcanology. It'll be the bison and wolves inexplicably fleeing the area ahead of time."

You do a remarkably good impression of an idiot at times :p

Yellowstone is a popular enough place for vulcanologists that we'll detect at least some signs ahead of time.