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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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King Atom (100 D)
20 Aug 11 UTC
I've Always Wondered...
Russia is freaking huge. So why does it only have four SC's/units? It's not like the rest of them have been captured by the Mongolians...
17 replies
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King Atom (100 D)
19 Aug 11 UTC
Seriously, People!
The forums pretty much suck right now, so I'd appreciate a really good thread that I can follow and think about before I go. So let's make one out of this.
58 replies
Open
Crazy Anglican (1067 D)
20 Aug 11 UTC
Hi all
Been a while, how is everyone?
7 replies
Open
MarshallShore (122 D)
21 Aug 11 UTC
School of War
Is anyone up for a SOW? I propose:
Students must have less than, say... 175(D) (inc. in games).
Teachers 1800(D) or more?
2 Day cycle for communication with teachers.
4 replies
Open
vordemu (460 D)
21 Aug 11 UTC
New Russia gameID=64815
Russia never came after the pause. Currently holding six centers and in a very good position.
3 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
20 Aug 11 UTC
webdip map.
http://www.mapservices.org/myguestmap/map/webDiplomacy

bump
4 replies
Open
andexer (133 D)
21 Aug 11 UTC
admin assistance - game restart
Are we able to have a game restart if we all agree to it? How do I go about getting this done?
3 replies
Open
Ges (292 D)
17 Aug 11 UTC
Bad jokes from my kids' Popsicle sticks
The forums have been kind of heavy and grumpy lately. Here are a few terrible jokes, literally from Popsicle (think ice lolly, UKers), sticks. Feel free to add your own groaners.
68 replies
Open
Scmoo472 (1933 D)
20 Aug 11 UTC
Mechanical question.
Just a question about game mechanics.
3 replies
Open
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
18 Aug 11 UTC
The History of the Reagan Economic Policy
Someone has to post it the real economic history of the Reagan presidency or you will be reading the lunacy of Putin, Tantris, and the like.

So if you want to be an uneducated boob then don't read the history I post here with links. Just read the rantings of fools who don't know economics from tiddliwinks.
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SergeantCitrus (257 D)
19 Aug 11 UTC
Macro =/= Micro.

Microecon happens all that time, I agree with that. I also recognize its legitimacy. But macro-econ often involves what we're seeing here - people quote statistics, maybe correlations, and try to build a narrative to explain the correlations. But since the correlations aren't really repeatable, well ... they might mean as little as the cell phones / cancer example from the xkcd comic.

xkcd is fantastic, by the way.

But anyways, macro econ is like politics - full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Fasces349 (0 DX)
19 Aug 11 UTC
Btw SergeantCitrus
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/forum.php?viewthread=757915#757915

A debate about the laws of Physics for ya happening on this very forum as we speak.

Also I love XKCD,
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
19 Aug 11 UTC
Corporations deal with macroeconomics on a daily basis.
Those corporate economists make decisions based on statistics and correlations every single day that do mean the world to workers, consumers, investors.

Macroeconomics in the academic world is useless.
Macroeconomics in the real world is criticial. I can't think of much that is more critical in the economic world.
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
19 Aug 11 UTC
I can't believe Ray Nimagi posted this

"During and after WWII, the US tax rate on the rich was higher than it ever was, and the economy was booming. "

The economy was "booming" during WWII Ray? Are you kidding? Are you stupid?

If you call no production of civilian cars, rationing of meat, sugar, nylons, gasoline, and a hundred other consumer goods a booming economy I guess you are just a total idiot.

Why do people post such stupidity?
pjmansfield99 (100 D)
19 Aug 11 UTC
I'm dying to get back into this but sadly the part of earning a living to pay the incredibly high taxes has got in the way, will be back tomo!
Fasces349 (0 DX)
19 Aug 11 UTC
However production of military good per capita was an all time high. And if you count military spending in the GDP and adjust that to inflation I wouldn't be surprised if WW2 so the peak of the US economy.

"I'm dying to get back into this but sadly the part of earning a living to pay the incredibly high taxes has got in the way, will be back tomo!"
You think we should lower taxes? I agree
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
19 Aug 11 UTC
Fasces, I'm going to ignore your incredibly stupid statements about WWII being a peak of the US economy. 12 million men forcibly drafted into military "employment" is not a "peak" of the US economy.

Fasces349 (0 DX)
19 Aug 11 UTC
Unemployment was almost 0%, thats not 'bad' economic times...
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
20 Aug 11 UTC
Like I said Fasces, the men who were forcibly drafted into the armed forces for combat didn't see it as a "career" economically speaking.
Give it up.
Fasces349 (0 DX)
20 Aug 11 UTC
So are you saying it was unjustified to forcibly draft people into helping bring down the axis of evil?
rayNimagi (375 D)
20 Aug 11 UTC
lol, I just linked to the first thing a I found with a Google search. Calm down, TC, Fasces. I am NOT a marxist. I'm in favor of more capitalism over Scandinavian socialism. Inequality is essential to the modern economy. I just don't think it's good for an economy to concentrate too much of its wealth in too few people.

Anyways, I don't know much about economics. I'm just some guy on the Internet.
spyman (424 D(G))
20 Aug 11 UTC
No he saying you have a strange definition of what makes a "good" economy.
rayNimagi (375 D)
20 Aug 11 UTC
"During and after WWII, the US tax rate on the rich was higher than it ever was, and the economy was booming. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_GDP_per_capita.PNG

Tax rate on the rich was high during WWII, yet the economy still grew. What I'm trying to prove here is that supply side economics are not *necessary* for economic growth, nor do they automatically make the economy better.
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
20 Aug 11 UTC
So Ray Nimagi idea for economic prosperity is WORLD WAR.

Good God, where do these people come from?

Don't forget to make a really big war Ray so the economy will grow.
Vietnam, Korea, and the war on Terror aren't big enough.

Who should we got to war with "for economic growth" Ray.

Thanks for posting that Ray. I needed a good laugh.

Let me know when you have a "serious" idea that doesn't need WORLD WAR for economic growth.
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
20 Aug 11 UTC
Exactly spyman, +++
Fasces349 (0 DX)
20 Aug 11 UTC
Wait, does Ray actually believe me when I jokingly said that the World War was good economic times? LOL
Ernst_Brenner (782 D)
20 Aug 11 UTC
Who knows what Tettleton chewed?
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
20 Aug 11 UTC
Red Man exclusively.
pjmansfield99 (100 D)
20 Aug 11 UTC
So TC, apologies for being away for a while but seems things have moved on slightly since then, just getting back to what you posted directly for me – I firstly went and read the link you gave me to Mundell’s Prize lecture

I haven’t yet gone to his own website but plan on reading that paper as well, I’m sure its worth the $5 for a bit of insight into a leading thinker. And yes to make it clear here I do respect Robert Mundell and enjoyed reading his lecture. What irritates me is that you take a very small minded view and insist that if someone does not hold the same ideals they are not even worth communicating with, I am all for debate and we may well actually agree on many things but it’s not worth the hassle of delving through your vitriolic statements and anti-marxist abuse to get to the good stuff. Anyway onwards and upwards!

In reading the lecture I was particularly interested in the part where he describes how “supply-side economics began as a policy system alternative to short-run Keynesian and monetarist demand-side models” and how “it was partly a continuation of my work on the policy mix in the 1960’s” (pg 237)

This was so interesting to me because in an earlier statement of yours you claim that “If you look at the 20th century supply side economics produced three eras of GDP expansion, 1922-29 1964-69 and 1983-1990” (TC Fri 05 PM) So how did this happen when Mundell (your hero) claims that it wasn’t invented until the 1960’s? You also remark upon how “American supply side economics didn’t even begin until 1913” (TC Fri 2am) Well actually they didn’t begin until the late 1960’s. I can see your confusion, after all Andrew Mellon did reduce marginal tax rates while maintaining moderate interest rates, he just didn’t know that what he was doing was called supply side economics, because it didn’t exist yet. So did Mundell actually invent it or did he just steal it from Mellon? Or even someone further back in history?

He also throughout the whole piece refers to the IMF and how international monetary policy was what was affecting the USA so badly, with particular references to the Bretton Woods agreement and the international gold standard. Again this is peculiar as you refer to how this is a purely American model and is non-European. Indeed Mundell refers to fact that “the withdrawal of the Soviet Union from Eastern Europe ...was...partly due to the success of supply-side economics” (Damn it I mentioned the commies again)

I’m also intrigued that you make no mention of Laffer even though it’s his curve that most simply and effectively demonstrates the argument for lowering marginal tax rates? What are our feelings about him? I also found Jude Wanniski’s comments interesting, particularly her open letter to Robert Reich following his debate with Jack Kemp on Late Edition. In that she claims to have created the supply-side model, having “merged it out of the ideas of two economists, Art Laffer and Bob Mundell” The best bit about her arguments is she is apolitical and has in fact belonged to both political parties. Economic arguments are far more effective when they’re divorced from politics.
pjmansfield99 (100 D)
20 Aug 11 UTC
And then just curious - this is a genuine invitation to debate something? How do you feel about the argument that supply side economics (in particular during Reagan's time) have led to increase in the US deficit? Do you argue that it's because of government spending? What are your thoughts?
Fasces349 (0 DX)
20 Aug 11 UTC
well, decreasing taxes increases government revenue so it would have to have been Reagan's military budget
pjmansfield99 (100 D)
20 Aug 11 UTC
See this is what I didn't understand and came across an article earlier that had these figures, that were taken from the IRS.When you adjust the tax income to take into account inflation you are left with a 20% rise or pretty standard for the US over the time period.

Tax Collections (billions)3
Year Nominal Constant (87 dollars)
1980 $517.1 728.1
1981 599.3 766.6
1982 617.8 738.2
1983 600.6 684.3
1984 666.6 730.4
1985 734.1 776.6
1986 769.1 790.0
1987 854.1 854.1
1988 909.0 877.3
1989 990.7 916.2
1990 1031.3 914.1
1991 1054.3 894.7
1992 1090.5 895.1

This is taken from an article by Steve Kangas discussing exactly this issue
Fasces349 (0 DX)
20 Aug 11 UTC
so what don;t you understand?
pjmansfield99 (100 D)
20 Aug 11 UTC
So according to these figures, Reagan's reduction did not cause any major or noticeable increase in tax revenue during this period. So was it his spending - as you said military budget? In that case is it not arguable that actually he was funding the economy through expenditure and consumption - i.e. demand economics?
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
20 Aug 11 UTC
PJ, the reason I started this thread was to discuss Reaganomics and specifically the supply side policy mix that Reagan employed- Marginal Tax cuts combined with sound money policy from the Fed to fight inflation.

The effects of this policy mix was a rapid recovery from a recession that had higher unemployment than our current recession.

Are you interested in discussing economic actions that would quickly and dramatically generate jobs growth and economic expansion?

If you are interested in deficits why haven't I seen a thread from you about the $1 Trillion dollar deficit we ran last year, are running this year, and will run next year?

I'm interested in a policy mix that we can enact right now, today that creates economic growth and promises to reduce the horrendous unemployment we are facing.

Does that interest you?

Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
20 Aug 11 UTC
Obama and big government liberals keep saying that this is the worst economic period since the Great Depression.

That is a bald-faced lie.

Reagan faced higher unemployment, 10%+, much higher interest rates, and raging inflation, and Reagan defeated all three problems within two and a half years of taking the other of office.

Obama has been in office the same two and a half years and he faced lower unemployment than Reagan. Obama has historically low interest rates to deal with and negligible inflation.

What has Obama done with his two and a half years? Doodley Squat that is what.

Unemployment has gotten worse under Obama. It increase dramatically under Reagan.
You want to talk deficits, Reagan's deficits we lower than Obama's as a percentage of GDP and in total.
You want to talk war, Obama is withdrawing from Iraq and Afghanistan in the war on Terror.
Reagan was fighting the Cold War and expanding the US military dramatically after a decade of post-Vietnam neglect.

Can you liberal nutjobs please come of with a rational argument of any kind whatsoever that shows how Obama's ineptitude is producing a better American than Reagan's supply-side economics.

Don't forget to go on red herring tirades that ignore the truth and reality.
Fasces349 (0 DX)
20 Aug 11 UTC
"So according to these figures, Reagan's reduction did not cause any major or noticeable increase in tax revenue during this period. So was it his spending - as you said military budget? In that case is it not arguable that actually he was funding the economy through expenditure and consumption - i.e. demand economics?"
No what it means is that, contrary to popular belief, supply side economics doesn't lower government revenue.

"$1 Trillion dollar deficit we ran last year"
Actually it was 1.6 trillion...

"I'm interested in a policy mix that we can enact right now, today that creates economic growth and promises to reduce the horrendous unemployment we are facing. "
This is what Citrus was referring to on the last page. There is no sound economic policy that works in every situation.
Fasces349 (0 DX)
20 Aug 11 UTC
"Obama and big government liberals keep saying that this is the worst economic period since the Great Depression.

That is a bald-faced lie.

Reagan faced higher unemployment, 10%+, much higher interest rates, and raging inflation, and Reagan defeated all three problems within two and a half years of taking the other of office.

Obama has been in office the same two and a half years and he faced lower unemployment than Reagan. Obama has historically low interest rates to deal with and negligible inflation.

What has Obama done with his two and a half years? Doodley Squat that is what.

Unemployment has gotten worse under Obama. It increase dramatically under Reagan.
You want to talk deficits, Reagan's deficits we lower than Obama's as a percentage of GDP and in total.
You want to talk war, Obama is withdrawing from Iraq and Afghanistan in the war on Terror.
Reagan was fighting the Cold War and expanding the US military dramatically after a decade of post-Vietnam neglect.

Can you liberal nutjobs please come of with a rational argument of any kind whatsoever that shows how Obama's ineptitude is producing a better American than Reagan's supply-side economics.

Don't forget to go on red herring tirades that ignore the truth and reality"
+1 TC
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
20 Aug 11 UTC
PJ, You made numerous horrendous errors in your post.

I guess you don't realize that Robert Mundell gave his Nobel Prize lecture in 1999, forty years after he wrote the paper that was the bible of supply-side economics for Kennedy and Reagan.

I would forgive an old man for taking credit for inventing supply-side economics in his Nobel speech.

I wonder why you didn't read Mundell's "The Appropriate Use of Monetary and Fiscal Policy for Internal and External Stability?"

I also wonder why you didn't get a copy of Econoclast? I mean you are a two degree holder and got a bargain on those degrees, right?

I guess you think it is "small-minded" to expect people to educate themselves on the subject they want to post about.

So why don't you "READ." Didn't they teach you that in the schools you got two degrees from?
pjmansfield99 (100 D)
20 Aug 11 UTC
As I mentioned I would quite like to read both of them, but bearing in mind I have been working for the last 2 days and am currently sat at work right now - haven't really had the time. Sorry TC! But I'll get around to it when I can.

By the way, I wouldn't call myself a liberal (I don't know if that reference was aimed at me or not) If I was an American I would probably vote Republican from what I understand of the 2 parties stances. But thanks again for lowering the debate to a slanging match, rather than a discussion.

You mentioned that I made numerous horrendous errors in my post, I'm well aware that Mundell gave his lecture 40 years later, I just found it interesting that he didn't refer to anyone else who possible helped him with his theories.

What were my others?

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96 replies
FirstApple (100 D(B))
15 Aug 11 UTC
Is it just me???
Can anyone explain how I could possibly be in two different 1901 games and end up being the exact same country in both AND in two different world games and be two countries that are right next to each other (out of 17 possibilities, I think it's an electronic conspiracy against me). Is this something that happens frequently? Is it due to my name that I'm always going to be the same country or something? Just a thought... any input would be great.
12 replies
Open
Fasces349 (0 DX)
29 Jul 11 UTC
LAST PERSON TO TROLL WINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Similar to Last Person to Post, however you have to troll the person above you :P
219 replies
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obiwanobiwan (248 D)
18 Aug 11 UTC
Limbaugh Goes Racist Again...This Time, In Cookie-Form!
http://news.yahoo.com/rush-limbaugh-goes-full-tilt-racial-slur-bam-230200099.html
I don't know what's worse--the slur, the name--"Or-Bam-Eo" is pretty weak--and the fact a man who has a stomach that looks like it's packed away the entire Oreo cookie factory has the audacity to make such a comment, and keep on slurring...why does this man still have job? Oh...right...folks like Tettleton...
19 replies
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goldfinger0303 (3157 DMod)
19 Aug 11 UTC
Just so I'm clear
Who all has Tettleton's Chew muted now?
34 replies
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orathaic (1009 D(B))
18 Aug 11 UTC
it seems there has been a lot...
...of argueing on the forums lately...

well just as a point of information, wikipedia has a lot of argumentation capital, please enjoy : http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/wikipedia-lamest-edit-wars/
21 replies
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obiwanobiwan (248 D)
20 Aug 11 UTC
Top 10 Best (Insert Sports Postion Here)
Top 10 lists and sports seem to go hand in hand, and another thread inspired me to do a Top 10 Best QBs ever...

But to leave this open for European friends--or for those who are NOT ready for some football--I'll leave it open: Top 10 Best...whatever sporting position you like, QBs, pitchers, cricket batsmen, midfielders, hockey fowards...etc.
11 replies
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Hydro Globus (100 D)
20 Aug 11 UTC
Quick, rules question
Can I retreat to a province where there was a standoff which did NOT involve the retreating army?
3 replies
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vamosrammstein (757 D(B))
19 Aug 11 UTC
Tuscaloosa
Anybody ever been? Graduate of UA? I'm heading there tomorrow and I'll be there for 2-3 days, can anyone recommend restaurants?
5 replies
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The Czech (39715 D(S))
20 Aug 11 UTC
gameID=65951
Sorry ladies and gents, my son just called. He has a flat tire and doesn't know how to operate the jack. It's quicker for me to go and do it vs waiting for AAA. Since it's 12:30 AM my time and where he's at I've got to abandon my position. Again, apologies.
0 replies
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FirstApple (100 D(B))
19 Aug 11 UTC
Other turn-based multi-player strategy games online
I'm curious about what other turn-based strategy games you guys play online. I've been looking to get into other games as well, though of course Dip is my favorite. Still, any ideas of other ones that are out there?
45 replies
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Vikesrussel (839 D)
20 Aug 11 UTC
Need admin assistance
hello. Europe War -2 in this game we have a player refuses to un pause the game. If u can plz help with this it be great since. its been like this since you guys Paused the game. The player been on but refuses to un pause.
3 replies
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obiwanobiwan (248 D)
16 Aug 11 UTC
This Time On Philosophy Weekly: IT'S THE FINAL COUNTDOWN!
17 enter....no one knows how many leave intact...gameID=65584
It's East vs. West, Cumminist vs. Capitalist, Left vs. Right, Theist vs. Atheist, it's Good vs. Evil...

IT'S THE FINAL COUNTDOWN! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt_ro2aerQg WHO wins, WHO losses...WHO trolls the best? HERE WE GO!
8 replies
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TBroadley (178 D)
18 Aug 11 UTC
Looking for a sitter
I'm currently in two anon games, one gunboat and one full-press. I'm going to be away from August 19th until August 28th. PM me or post in this thread if you're interested.
6 replies
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im_on_a_boat (133 D)
19 Aug 11 UTC
Seriously an administrator needs to unpause Lifeboat
Russia has disappeared and our game (Lifeboat) has been paused continuously since the server upgrade. We can't seem to get an admin to respond and unpause it, so I will appeal in the forum. Please unpause the game for us!
5 replies
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King Atom (100 D)
16 Aug 11 UTC
Inferior List
Kind of like Schindler's List, but not...

If you are put on this list, that simply means that you are too inferior to be my underling, meaning that you must be considered near a slave. Most people on this list are not actually on my kill-list.
62 replies
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Fasces349 (0 DX)
19 Aug 11 UTC
A trend I have recently noticed
Most of the active political debaters seem to be weak at diplomacy:
13 replies
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krellin (80 DX)
15 Aug 11 UTC
Fantasy Football League! Players needed!
Played in a WebDip FF League last year. Would like to set up a new league in Yahoo.
Looking for a 10 player league....so I need 9 of you. Will settle for 8 player league if we can't get enough. Reply if interested.
72 replies
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Yonni (136 D(S))
18 Aug 11 UTC
Check out the moves on this kid
Take time away from arguing with an old troll to check out this fantastic move at the nhl R&D camp. The first move is pretty insane.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw3zbgWaRLk
2 replies
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cardwarrior (10 DX)
18 Aug 11 UTC
MOD Help
I'm playing world Gunboat 5 (gameID=63530), The game is ANON and no chat. The 2 South American players split South american and are playing perfectly together. They must be communicating outside of the game. This is cheating and against the rules....Right?
5 replies
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Fasces349 (0 DX)
16 Aug 11 UTC
Closing Loopholes = raising taxes
May I ask why some republicans are convinced that closing loopholes is the same as raising taxes?
116 replies
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