"The rich lose wealth on bad investments all the time."

Sure, but the net gain is positive.

"Sure, but the net gain is positive."
Whatever that means.

Look up these names and let me know "the net gain is positive" about their bad investment.

Ira Roth, Stephen Abbott, Lawrence Velvel, J. Ezra Merkin, Norman Braman, Leonard Fenstein, Mort Zuckerman, Richard Spring, Senator Frank Lautenberg, Ira Rennert, Stephen Fine, Saul Katz, Irving Kellner, Carl and Ruth Shapiro, Jeff Katzenberg, Arpad Busson, Burt Ross, Alexander Penney, Robert Chew, Pedro Almodavar, and Pasha and Julia Anwar.

Let me know the "net positive" of the millions these people lost.

A statistic I read the other day at the airport (everyone has probably seen those HSBC adverts posted everywhere at Pearson, Gatwick etc)

2/3 of the worlds billionaires are self made.

Are you a billionaire Fasces?

I'm all for nuclear. You have to keep in mind that the plant in Japan that got fucked up by the disaster is a relatively early nuclear power plant. Modern nuclear plants are much safer. Wind and solar are great, but let's be honest. The world can't run on wind and solar. It's simply not enough juice. It would take a solar panel the size of Arizona just to power America. Nuclear power could also be used to power electric cars directly or to manufacture hydrogen for hydrogen cars.

But we shouldn't do anything expensive like energy reform until the government is out of debt.

"2/3 of the worlds billionaires are self made. "

I'm curious if it defined what it meant by "billionaire" and "self-made." Both have a variety of meanings. If it's an advertisement for an investment firm, of course they're going to be liberal with those definitions in order to convince you that you can make it by investing.

This I think is the logic, to answer OP:

-Closing loopholes means someone pays more taxes than they would have.
-This means someone has less money for whatever else
-To the GOP this means there will be an invariable economic disaster, you know, if you have to pay something in taxes, rather than on pron or the economy of whatever, their idea is that it hurts the economy. For those purposes they are equal.

However they are wrong about that and lol it also becomes sort of awkward when you seem to be encouraging lawbreaking. haha.

"Are you a billionaire Fasces?"
No, why?

"I'm curious if it defined what it meant by "billionaire" and "self-made." Both have a variety of meanings. If it's an advertisement for an investment firm, of course they're going to be liberal with those definitions in order to convince you that you can make it by investing."
Other statistics used from similar advertisements (from the same firm)
80% of the worlds life is under the sea
Russian Billionaires are on average 19 years younger then American Billionaires
2/3 of the people who have ever lived to 75 are still alive today
Something about Pakistans exports
Something about baby food
and a few others that I forget.

All of the statistics are printed on a picture related to the statistic and following the statistic is the companies slogan: We see a world of potential, do you?

"However they are wrong about that and lol it also becomes sort of awkward when you seem to be encouraging lawbreaking. haha."
Agree, however I still like the republicans more then Obama.

So now Thucy claims to be a spokesman for the GOP.
A guy who doesn't have enough common sense to go to a doctor with an infected foot claims to be a spokesman for the GOP.

I rest my case. Next!

They have a clear interest, especially in advertising financial services, to phrase things in a way that will make you think you can get rich quickly. Without a definition of self-made, it's as questionable as any advertising slogan.

But still, heres some other statistics:
The average families wealth last 3 generations
and TC (encase you have muted him) 50% of those that were in the top quintile (top 20% of Americans) 10 years ago are no longer in it today.

Fact is this is capitalism, and people do change class all the time and will still change class if we have flat tax rates.

Does that statistic take into account people who leave the top quintile due to death?

Fasces, Why would I mute you? You are intelligent and informed.

He has me, and everyone else who disagrees with him, muted, fasces. He speaks into an echo chamber. I was sick of the echo so I hit the mute.

I was just quoting TCs stastic (encase people ahve muted him) however TC, why have you muted all the liberals? Doesn't it make political debates less interesting?

I don't mute all the liberals Fasces.
I don't hesitate to mute people who go on a rampage when I've exposed their posts as inaccurate or individuals who just post total stupidity.
Putin, Santa Claus, etc.

It makes the board so much better to read.
I don't like to waste my time on fools.

The irony, it is overpowering.

@Fasces....no....he doesn't mute all liberals. he mutes Conservatives, too. Becuase he is such a moronic, arrogant fool that he mutes everyone that even suggests he might be wrong on any single point.

Tettleton is a great *student* of Conservative philosophy.....but he isn't a true believer. He spouts his bullshit for all....but when someone offers a logical rebutal....he mutes them....because he fears reality over philosophy.

He once posted about a Yogurt shop that was **excelling*** and **growing** under the Obama regime. he then suggested that nobody can grow under Obama's oppressive regulations, etc. WhenI pointed out his obvious logical fallacy....instead of admitting his error and rethinking his point, he muted me.

Generally speaking, I agree with the Conservative point of view. But Tettleton is the worst kind....he is the idiot that spews his taling points from a pamphlet without actually understanding what he is saying. He repeats the fact he read on a conservative web site....but he doesn't understand how or why they are true.

And thus....he says stupid things like "x Yogurt Shop did something different and is growing and succeeding..." and then says "nobody can grow under Obama"....and we now know that Tettleton's Chew is a fool. The worst kind of conservative...the uninformed, the inexperienced. Much like the child ConservativeMan, who is no man at all, and who doesn't *really* know anything about life, about policy, etc because he is too young to have experienced anything but the grace of Mommy and Daddy feeding him, clothing him and wiping his ass as they brain-wash him....

Deductibles are what tax attorneys and accountants live for.
47% of Americans already don't pay any income tax whatsoever.
How do you give 47% of the people a tax cut on taxes they don't pay?

"The irony, it is overpowering."

Haha. Jack_Klein + 1. We finally agree on something, Jack.

TC my post wasn't even argumentative. Do you disagree with it? To me there is logic in there, even though I disagree... are you saying there is no logic to the argument against closing tax loopholes.

Re my foot... can you even read?

> It's simply not enough juice. It would take a solar panel the size of Arizona just to power America.

That's a good idea, Gunfighter. Let's just convert the state of Arizona to be the power generator for the other 49 states! LOL

Thucy, there is no argument when you use vague, ambiguous terms like "tax loophole."
Do you have one or a few in mind or is this just a general, vague idea you picked up from a website that you are ill informed to discuss in depth?

Aristotle, the great philosopher, stated that true 'happiness' can only be found in the mean... which by happiness can also be applied to the welfare of a nation as well. Personally I lean to a slightly more liberal side BUT like Aristotle said, NO EXTREME can be advantageous for anyone. You have to take and use a bit from each side, from each camp in order to find the most advantageous middle that will spell fortune and growth for the nation and its people.

For example, the communist nations have fallen due to the lack of economic growth that is spurred by competition because they were 'too' far to the left. At the same time, our own nation is falling apart at the seams because capitalism is, at its base, a system designed to make a few wealthy people even richer at the sweat, toil and expense of the majority. It is, in fact, nearly as oppressive in its makeup as a communist country (ie what's the point of having the best medicine in the world, best technology, etc. if a large part of the nation can't have access to it because it's been priced such that only the rich can. For the poor and middle classes even, the existence of such is more a constant reminder of what they can never have because they are slaves to the society's rich.)

When our nation and its people finally realize that neither system truly works BUT a healthy combination of both is required, we will one day again flourish. Until then, our current path to self-destruction is the only route available to us.

Therefore all this banter about conservative and liberal is pure BS. Neither side is correct nor will either system work on its own. We need both systems implemented in a way that serves the people of the nation instead of camps of interested individuals that demand more for them at the expense of everyone else.

And on that note... I hereby declare my candidacy for president of the US. LOL

Funny, countries like Sweden consume a lot of energy but 50% of it is renewable, much of it is solar. European countries and China have are on the cutting edge and America is behind as usual.

Socialist ideas applied to a capitalist and free-market system merely hold the system back. Socialist priniciples only work in a perfect society without greedy people. A Capitalist system is based on the "invisible hand" of competition. Competition lowers prices and allows for the creation of more jobs. Government regulation merely stifles competition. It is not the responsibility of the government to intervene on our behalf if something goes wrong.

First Apple, communist governments fell because of their violent oppression of freedom.
The Soviet Union built the Berlin Wall to keep people in for God's sake.
Your argument that capitalism is nearly as oppressive as communism is infantile, intellectual indefensible, and patently absurd.

Where do you mindless idiots come from?