"3. Don't work around game messaging/press rules.
If you enter a game with limited press/messaging (such as global-only) then you can't use other methods such as email or PM to bypass this."

That is the "gunboat rule" that people are referring too.

I still disagree, for the above reasons, that I break that rule or that I clearly violate it.

Some common sense, please.

Didn't say I thought you did, just pointing out what rule was being referenced. Some of the comments on this thread do seem inappropriate though, especially advice on how to break a stalemate line...

I absolutely agree with you that those kind of comments are inappropriate and unnecessary. Again, it's about common sense - those people didn't exercise enough when submitting such comments but I probably could have posted a comment at the start reiterating that I didn't want to encourage any debate on the game itself.

I'm sure everyone meant well, but isn't this a situation that calls for a message to a mod asking for a draw instead of open discussion on here? Posting move suggestions on a gunboat (or any game) seems clearly wrong and everything else seems less than wise.

Lol. Yes, Steve. I didn't post move suggestions - so please be clear who you're referring to. As I have already stated, I posted here exactly so that I didn't have to bother the inundated moderators with this.

Here is your rule, you stupid fucks!

3. Don't work around game messaging/press rules.

If you enter a game with limited press/messaging (such as global-only) then you can't use other methods such as email or PM to bypass this.


Trying to get people to draw in a gunboat game by posting on the forum is a clear violation of rule 3. Now shut the fuck up!

And if you are in the game and asking people to draw, you are violtaing rule 3. It's pretty clear. Don't work around limited press rules. Gunboat is limited press. Telling someone they should draw in a fucking gunboat is working around limited press.

No. You shut the fuck up.

If a moderator tells me any of my comments were inappropriate I will absolutely take that on board.

All I was trying to do was avoid burdening them with more work. Your childish way of dealing with this is sad (have you nothing better to do?) and only creates more work for moderators, out of something that is really so small in importance.

Besides, a grown man who posts "meditating here cause the blatant cheating on another thread discussing an ongoing gunboat has my blood boiling" in a thread entitled 'Last Person to Post Wins!' (a thread he created, no less) is not worth taking seriously when they go storming round telling others that they are 'stupid fucks'.

Go play some golf, Robert. :)

@Kuisag: I think everyone is scared to make any moves. It's not stalemated in that there are still supports that can easily be made, but there's no way to coordinate any moves. That's about the time it needs to be drawn.

draw was forced today it looks like (or everyone voted draw all of the sudden; I wasn't keeping track)

@Sargmacher:
Let's make this perfectly clear for you and everyone else involved:

1) It is against the rules to discuss an ongoing gunboat game.

2) You were in fact breaking the rules through making the comments in this thread.

3) Discussing an ongoing gunboat in an stalemated position to demand a draw is *not* acceptable, and certainly not the common-sense approach. Doing so does not create less work for the moderators. In fact, it can only make our jobs harder when others inevitably add to the discussion, and cheating accusations start getting thrown around.

4) Your statements that essentially amounted to threatening other players with moderator action if they did not draw are completely unacceptable. If there is problem with a player refusing to draw in face of a locked-up stalemate, contact us and let us handle it. Taking it upon yourself to contact other players in such a situation and then threaten moderator intervention is not acceptable.

5) You are an experienced player and really should know better. Also, just because you are an experienced player on this site, you are *not* granted license to bend the rules as you see fit. I've already docked points from your account. Please note that future infractions will carry harsher penalties.


@Kusiag: Even a comment speculating about a move or lack thereof in a gunboat game is against the rules. Such a speculation could easily come off as a suggestion/proposal and hence constitutes forbidden communication. This is a formal warning. Please note that future infractions will carry harsher penalties.


@Everyone else:
1) Sorry for not getting to this sooner. I think it's been a pretty crazy weekend for all of the mods. By the way, the game was already drawn by the time I took a look at it.

2) The same "no discussion (PMs, forum posts, emails, smoke signals) in gunboats" rule goes for everyone else as well. Here it is from the rules page (http://webdiplomacy.net/rules.php): "3. Don't work around game messaging/press rules.
If you enter a game with limited press/messaging (such as global-only) then you can't use other methods such as email or PM to bypass this."

3) When it comes to stalemated situations, where one player is refusing to draw despite what seems to be a completely locked-up position, contact the moderators and let us handle it. Do *not* threaten moderator intervention, since they may have a completely valid plan (e.g., backing off to draw the other side off guard) or may even have a leverage point that you've completely overlooked. If it's a gunboat, DO NOT TALK ABOUT IT. Also, just because you've checked, double-checked, and are absolutely certain that you have a solid stalemate, it does not give you license to break the rules above.

4) For situations that may require a force-draw, we handle things on a case-by-case basis, and we generally try to get in contact with the holdout players first to see what's going on first. Also, there is no set in stone "3 year" rule. Some perfectly valid tactics, such as rearranging units on the front in order to break an imperfect line, or pulling back to attempt to change up the game dynamics, may take much longer than 3 years are allowed. In other situations, we may act even much quicker. Of course, holding out to wait for a CD/NMR is unacceptable.

Wow. Draugnar barks and yebellz jumps. What a pathetic way to run this site.

I was simply trying to raise the issue without adding work for the moderators. If I broke a rule then I apologise but I don't think deducting 300 is necessary or fair, especially as my intentions here were meant well.

Ridiculous.

@Sarg: Draug's statements have nothing to do with our actions. You broke the rules and were punished. Your intentions and experience are no excuse for breaking the rules, and such actions certainly do not create less work.

I'm selling tickets for the front row on this one ....... who needs Netflix !!
Get yourself some popcorn, a cola and a hot-dog, sit back and enjoy :-)

So yebellz, this helps clear it up but I am still not positive on this entirely. Does rule number 3 actually include people not in the game? Say for example I was watching a gunboat game that I am not in, and I decide I want to make a post about it in the forum. Is that allowed or not? I know it is bad form, but I don't know if it is against the rules. The same question for a non gunboat game. Additionally, is talking about a non gunboat game if you are a player in it against the rules, or is it only gunboats that cannot be discussed. The rules are not clear on this, so thanks in advance for clearing it up.

Clearly not, I've emailed the moderator email. No doubt you'll probably just delete it before any other moderator sees it (such is clearly the tyrannical way this website is now run) so I'll post here as well:

"Hi,

I wanted to voice my dismay at being docked 300 by yebellz for posting an innocent thread that turned out to violate rules.

I see myself as a productive member of the community on WebDip and being fined so heavily completely puts me off the website. You may very well respond that leaving the site is my choice but I'm disappointed that such a hard line was taken against me for my well-intended comments on the forum and I want to say that it's shocking that moderators would take such a strong punitive action against players to the extent that it drives them away from being involved.

I do not care about the points but I am deeply disappointed with the way this was handled.

Regards,
---"

The point docking system appears highly arbitrary. Draugnar (or 'Draug' as you so lovingly refer to him, despite your protestations that his foot-stamping did not lead your actions) demands that I have points removed and suddenly it happens? Very odd. I think the way you handled this stinks. Why 300? Why not 50, the amount Draugnar had deducted? Why not 1000? So arbitrary and unnecessary.

I broke and I apologised. You did not need to take such harsh measures.

I have seen countless other threads discussing ongoing games, even in the Live Games thread for example.

There are serious questions to be asked here.

1. Why exactly was I singled out on this occasion when so many others instances have gone unnoticed?
2. Why does Draugnar control the actions of the moderators with such influence?
3. What is it that yebellz is trying to prove to Draugnar by pandering to him?
4. Why was I docked 300 when point docking has never been implemented before as a punishment for breaking rule 3?
5. And why was I punished so harshly for breaking rule 3 when that rule is flounted so often without any punishment at all?

I will be emailing Kestas and I hope he can sort this out for me.

I am very disappointed.

Hi Sarg,
I'll respond to your questions via email out of courtesy to your privacy to discuss this and other issues

"I have seen countless other threads discussing ongoing games, even in the Live Games thread for example."

I'd like to hop in here for a brief moment just to ask that the Live Games thread never be locked, may `ZaZaMaRaNDaBo` receive a +1 from every user. Insha Allah.

Sarg has made some great points ...... sadly he's just lost 300 of them !!

Lol, thanks Nigee.

I'm truly disappointed at the way this has been handled with such bias.

I see little point in being able to enjoy playing here when yebellz deems that he has the right to dock an arbitrary amount of points from me at any given whim (his or Draugnar's, I don't know which). He could just as easily ban me and I would not be able to do anything.

If you extricate yourself from this it is good to see the Mods tightening up on the Rules but the 300 makes it seem more malicious than just a smack on the hand.

I don't understand why yebellz would have any feeling of malice towards me.

Even if he did have personal bias against me, I would have hoped moderators would put personal feelings aside in fulfilling their duties.

@Sarg: I do not hold any personal biases against you. I think you are normally an upstanding and prominent member of this community.

Regardless, of what I think about you, which is mainly quite highly, breaking our rules is not ok.