I have to agree with Sandgoose a little bit. Mods should show more respect then regular players towards other members of this site. BUT, all this said, just because somebody is an asshole sometimes, or behaves childish, doesn't mean he is not good at what he does.

You can send zultar on probation, punish him, etc, but it won't solve anything. Securing it won't happen again, will solve sg. Punishing zultar is more of a political solution than a professional one. And this is exactly the way where experienced mods are changed to even worse ones.

People make mistakes, learn from it, live with it, regret it, develop by it. Sometimes not, and they remain assholes thorough their lives :). I'm pretty sure a strong and honest apology would worths a lot more than any probation.

"I'm pretty sure a strong and honest apology would worths a lot more than any probation."

There is no point demanding an apology. Apologies should come without direction.

You have just ruined any chance for an apology (from either side) to look credible - as people will now be able to say, 'XXX is only apologizing because it was being called for'. Such a calling can also make people less likely to do so because for pride's sake.

Lol, so many people trying to turn this thread into a padded cell, so nobody gets hurt. "Shush, shush, children, it was just the wind." No it wasn't. Lando was a cheater. Zultar is being unprofessional. So what? We can talk about it, can't we? If we can insult one another over religion and supposedly important stuff like that, we can sure talk about cheating and moderating. And Rokakoma, apologies are worth nothing. It's actions that matter.

You are rght Sarg, I apologize ruining an apology. It's my fault, and you were right. More importantly, I learned from it, and I will no call for any kind of apology in the future. My mistake, sorry!

Lol
+1, I guess :P

"It's actions that matter."

Good point to end on, thanks Z

Now I don't usually jump into heated threads but I am all for defending public good of the forum as well as peace:

"Sandgoose, zultar only brought up Lando's past behaviour because Lando was insulting him"

Jamiet99uk, that isn't grounds for public humiliation in my book...

as for the rest of this whole thread, I am not saying throw zultar on probation indefinitely, I am saying allow the other mods conduct an investigation in the meanwhile and determine if it was an excessive use of mod privilege. If anyone insults me I don't know their inner workings or details of their game play...it's like dubmdell and myself...sure, he's dumb sometimes and I'll insult him, but he doesn't know that I used to be banned...(which he actually does, now)

It's priveliged information that should be kept in the quiet. Be the bigger man, nuff said. There's nothing that can really change my mind on the issue. Yea, Lando, in the wrong for going at the mod team, but rather than looking at the anger figure out why the hell he's saying it. Is it a flawed system at times? of course! because mods are players....human...with human error.

Zultar was in the wrong for throwing all the mud out there. None of this conversation can really be truly beneficial. I am already talking with zultar on the side.

just to summarize:

Zultar, probation until other mods review if it was an abuse of power
Lando, you had your points but there was better ways to present them.

I won't respond on this thread further unless something is directed towards me. Either way, Cheers! I need to get back to work and deny more insurance policies...

This is all very silly, but any thread that starts out

I DEMAND JUSTICE

gets an automatic approval from me.

I DEMAND JUSTICE is the new THEY EAT PEOPLE DOWN THERE

^I like this. you've got yourself a meme

^^ +1

Jamiet99 +1

LOL at Jamiet. Well at least we get a new meme out of today's work.

I probably should not have disclose the information in regards to Lando, but his calling out Geo to be banned and insulting me out of nowhere were just the tip of the iceberg of his history with us, and so I reacted more strongly that I should have. I apologize for divulging that private info to the general public.

I do think that the mods do need to take a stance as to how much crap could be said from time to time and I felt that this was the case today. I think the community knows how much the mods do and though there are issues and mistakes, I think most people respect what the mods do and how they keep the site running smoothly. I do not think that we, the mods, should have to be worried about how we come off to everyone all the time. We do need to be professional and courteous and I think I have done that consistently. This case just brings out something special in me, that's all. Even so, I should have perhaps let it go and not bite the bait.

I would like everyone to take a moment to calm down.


Lando,

The fact that you have such ill-will towards every member of the mod team really says more about you than about us. You personally insulted every mod on this site and yet you are still here. I think that speaks louder than any other action the mods have done. If this were any other site, you would have been permabanned for daring to criticize the mod team. Here, otoh, your thread wasn't even locked. Take a moment to consider that.

We do have a very clear oversight system for the mod team. Mods are overseen by Admins and Admins are overseen by Kestas. That's the end of the story. If you aren't satisfied with the process, start a thread with your suggestion on how it should be changed.

The mods are volunteers and you are not forced to come to this site. There is no need for such an argumentative stance when a polite one would have the same effect.

Yes, you are right I went about this the wrong way.

This is the only internet site that I use. The only site I have two-way interactions with, anyway. I should count my blessings I suppose, but I unfortunately do not have a reference point of"other sites."

I do not understand why you bumped this thread.

For everyone's benefit, can we let this drop. I have valid concerns that I will try and articulate to fortknox. At this stage, I am happy that the community has seen the side of zultar I have had the privledge of knowing for quite some time.

Has anyone got an egg-cup I can put this storm in? Oh. it's OK I'll only need a thimble.
Some of the forum high-spots are when people go nuts whole hazel nuts and let off a bit of steam so look at this on the positive side ..... no religion or politics so not all bad :-)

I've just read the whole thread and take back my laid back approach ...... I think blood should be spilled, not mine of course :-)

I've emailed Kestas regarding a lot of this silliness.

Lando for Prime Minister!

As the former mod who investigated and banned Lando's second account, I have a few words in support of Lando.

Because moderating this site is time consuming and unpaid, and because simultaneously being a mod and a player on the site brings in numerous conflicts of interest, the moderator setup is inherently flawed. Mods can slack off, wield their powers arbitrarily and make life hard for players they don't like. Mods who do a good job can also burn out easily and stop giving a shit.

Let me tell you how I discovered Lando's second account. I was a very active live games player on this site. Lando and I sparred a few times in EOGs. I had a grudge against him. So I investigated his account. When I found he had a second account, I ran with it. I banned it, and fined him a crap load of points.

Did Lando make a mistake? Yes. But even at the time of the investigation, it was an old mistake that just happened to have been dug out from the grave during my investigation.

To be entirely honest, in my first days on the site in 2008, I started so many games that I ran out of points, so I started a new account just to play more games. I never multi-accounted but figlesquidge found out and closed the other one. But when figlesquidge found out, it was 2 years later and I hadn't used the old account in years.

Here's my point - we all fuck up. But because of the way the mod system is set up, the mods tend to fuck up too. Thus far, abgemacht and fortknox are only mod who has been able to enforce the rules consistently and unbiasedly and that's because they spend time on this site regularly and seldom as players. But it's hard to get there. I'd do it if I was paid. But otherwise it's a shit job I couldn't care less about - I'd rather just enjoy my player benefits on the site.

So do I demand justice for the gunboat tournament that I signed up for which never took off? Yes. But do I blame Geofram for it? No...he has an unenviable job.

Is Zultar an asshole for mudslinging? Yes. But how many people on this site show up on the forum just to throw stones and watch chaos ensue? Yeah, you know who you all are...you make it a part of the culture of this site to be assholes and drama queens about everything.

ava2790, you are an impudent chaiwalla.