I am with the times. I am only a few years older than you. I think you need to get more realistic. Field hockey was a big sport at my high school. As far as your female football leagues, I had no idea. Thats good news. Also, if a boy did ballet at my high school, he will not be thought of highly. People are not easy to accept others that do things outside of the "norms"

So I can prove my point, where did you go to high school?

Edsel Ford High School. It's in Dearborn (near Detroit) Michigan.

See, that's what I thought. I'm near Dallas, in one of the fastest growing counties in the country - we are in such a melting pot that no one can afford to question another's interests, because chances are, more people are apt to be one the side of the attackee rather than the attacker. I apologize, I don't think we are in comprable growing environments haha.

Not to say that there's anything wrong with Michigan, but there is probably a lot less of the traditional social norms in my area than there are in yours.

I agree and disagree. As far as growing environments we are not comparable. The south west is growing considerably while people are leaving in the hundreds of thousands where I am at (Doesn't help that I live in the city of the Ford Motor Company world headquarters).

But we are a melting pot to an extent as well. We have the largest Arab American population in the US. My high school was about 40% Arab descent, while another high school in the city is about 90% Arab descent.

In any case, where I go to school, women and men are equally given the title of nerd. I guess that because of my school's situation it doesn't seem like social norms are the cause of a lack of women in the game.

I was my high school football team captain. That was...... last year? I went to a private challenging catholic school. Our most popular students were both good athletes and students of a high caliber. I was a bit of a social butterfly and hung out with a wide range of kids. Then again my tastes are a bit weird with traditional boy loves and more "nerdy" things

I am female and was in the closet on this site about it for quite a while, but I came out a few months ago. The relative anonymity of the internet gave me a confidence that I didnt have before. Growing up as a female nerd took its toll, and I really like how I can be respected as an equal, since people aren't concerned with what I look like. Not that I am gorgeous or anything, but I do have tits and ass, and guys usually notice those before they hear anything I say.

I'm sorry, what did you say?

:)

Tom, I'm from Windsor.

Mmk, off topic much? haha

Welcome to the forum : )

Because women aren't as good at thinking as men, duh.


Okay I'm kidding but I think it has to do with gender roles, definitely.


Look at a 50's cover of the game "battleship" and you see a father and son playing and a daughter and mother in the kitchen. women weren't encouraged to play strategy games so it's become a gender role.

i think my girlfriend would be top shelf if she played, but she won't because she says its "a boring war game." lol so there you go. I agree with FS.

I think it is mostly genetic. This game appeals to mens' hunter instict. Some women have this too but it is more common in men.

My personal opinion/experience: Men are more competitive and for that reason tend to like games with winners/losers more than (most) women do. I know lots of exceptions to this rule though, some of the most competitive people I know are women.

I think it might also have something to do with parents. I think that girls might be more "interested" or influenced by there mother because that's what she might be expeted to do,and the mother was influenced by her mother and she was influenced by hers, and so on. So the housewifey and steriotypical tradition is passed down. But on the other hand boys may be influenced by their father who used to play tin soldiers so they bought there son some and from there it goes on.
But if a daughter was more interested in her father and what he did/does she might become more like diplomacy playing material, and visa versa, a boy might be more interested in being more like his mother for whatever reason. i think this is more common than it used to as it is more acceptable nowadays which is great.

This is just a theroey of course and in fact everything everyone else has said is just another variable.

When i look at the game and how it is played on this website, it´s ridiculous to call it competitive or "appeals to mens' hunter instict". Mostly it´s played for a draw and my experience it´s played "unmanly". Close "friendships", jealous allies, bad losers nothing i expect from a "real" man or a boy. On this board neurotic uncreative players with no nuts define the game, whatever gender they have :-)

Yes @miro i would have to agree with you but the objective is to take over europe, something tha's quite aggressive or as @spyman said apealing t hunter like instincts.

"When i look at the game and how it is played on this website, it´s ridiculous to call it competitive or "appeals to mens' hunter instict". Mostly it´s played for a draw and my experience it´s played "unmanly". Close "friendships", jealous allies, bad losers nothing i expect from a "real" man or a boy. On this board neurotic uncreative players with no nuts define the game, whatever gender they have :-)"

BOOOOOOOOOOM. For what it's worth I agree 100%. The drawing is more forgivable because it is better to tie than lose (though people that play for the draw... *shakes head*). And the lack of honor! Stabbing is a part of the game, I get that. But you can be sportsmanlike about it. And you can be sportsmanlike in general. Both are lacking.

I always think of the ideal Diplomacy game as being seven mobsters playing a round. There's a lot of brutal double-dealing going around, but they put on the niceties about it. Never quite got the chance to play such a round, though, not even close. *sigh*

I think that more than a few of the top players on this site are masters of the "sportsman like" stab.
Presend Eden, you sound like you have had a tough time being stabbed. Maybe you should aim to be the stabber next time, rather than the stabee ;)

@spyman: if this game appealed to "hunter instinct", it would have blood and gore and would take casualties and the environment into account. this game is about violence like halo is about rainbows and butterflies. I agree with Miro Klose - it sounds more like a sorority house scandal than a war game when you look at it right, haha.

@goldminer: you need to look at how the objective is accomplished, not the objective itself. rather that weaponry or battle tactics, this game centers around making ties and breaking them, socializing and bluffing, intellect and a sense of when to step in or out. women are naturally good at this. i'm not stereotyping - i'm telling you that any woman i know can gossip like sixty when they need to know something. men aren't geared to talk to each other - it can only be assumed that women would be more likely to do well in diplomacy.

@kirk "@spyman: if this game appealed to "hunter instinct", it would have blood and gore and would take casualties and the environment into account. this game is about violence like halo is about rainbows and butterflies. I agree with Miro Klose - it sounds more like a sorority house scandal than a war game when you look at it right, haha."

On the other hand, it is what people who don't play perceive the game to be about that is actually important. If it is perceived as a wargame, then it doesn't matter that it emphatically is not.

One question which I would ask is, how long comparatively do boys and girls spend rummaging around a board game cupboard? I know I spend longer than my sister, but more generally, I can't say; I suspect that it is a factor.

"Presend Eden, you sound like you have had a tough time being stabbed. Maybe you should aim to be the stabber next time, rather than the stabee ;)"

Nah. I have a tough time with retarded stabs that get the stabber killed first. And when people stab and then never talk again, on the assumption I won't talk to them. (Giving it SOME time to cool, like a year, is one thing; it's the people that five years later still refuse to answer me that piss me off.) I've no respect for the former, and the latter is such a cowardly move. The stab is devastating when done right, and it WILL be done; have the stones to own up to it when you do, and if it ends up being the wrong move show the courage to acknowledge ya dun goofed and work from there. (general you, not spyman specifically)

Well, kirk-prime, you are right about the game not being really very militaristic.

however your average girl who is introduced to the game by, let's face it, a male who thinks she would be good or who is just so nerdy he can't shut up about it around her, will see it as a war game and little else, akin to stratego, civ IV, empire earth, starcraft and endless others.

so. i mean.... it's a shame, because dip is so unique, but that's why i think it is, for the most part. a lot of girls have just been conditioned to stay away from war-things.

In my opinion men are more agressive than women so we like war games more than they do. All the times I've played with women I've found them weak and without push and brilliant ideas about war. I'm sure there're women like that but I didn't found them. The same with Quake, Starcraft, World of Warcraft, even Risk and anything. They are better than us in other kind of games, not the ones where you have to trample your own friends.

Lesbians are good dip players, in general.

Actual women, not so much.

Nature and nurture both play a part.

@telemaco: judging by your "intelligent" response, i can see that you have never met a woman, let alone played a game with one. judging from the fact that you barely have any webDiplomacy points yourself you are hardly a judge of what's brilliant and what's not. play a game with me. we'll see who's aggressive.

@mapleleaf: how dare you? that is the most biggoted thing i have heard in my life. how can you assume that all lesbians are automatically gifted at strategy, and furthermore, how dare you presume that only straight women are "actual women"? if you don't have anything polite or intelligent to say, stay the hell off my thread.

You don't know mapleleaf. This is what he does and he enjoys it. Soon you will learn to embrace his presence too... well maybe not that last part.