Gay Marriage - Should be up to the voters on a state-by-state basis. Personally I say yes.
Guns - Same as TMW though must fisrt adequately train, sort of like a driver's license.
Prayer in School - Same as TMW
Death Penalty - Definitely. Should be used more often as it would save $50,000 a year per prisoner if we offed them.
Abortion - Up to voters on state-by-state basis, I say yes.
Evolution - Teach it in schools with option for parent deferal, learn intelligent design in Sunday School.
War in Iraq - Could have been handled so much better. Should have let the shade of Patton run the invasion and that of MacArthur run the occupation instead of the boobs we have in charge. Nevertheless we should have been and should still be there.
War in Afghanistan - Executed well to begin with but we let it go all to Hell once we went into Iraq. Need some serious work before it gets better.
CIA Blacksites/Gitmo/Torture - Pile that shit on, if only to make me feel better. that being said, we need to make sure it's only real terrorists that end up there.

You know what gay marriage is just wrong, no no no, I am not religous but honestly that is corrupting marriage and I think that it should be held between a man and a woman. If you want to have a marriage to bad your gay.

And born gay my ass... ( in a fagish tone) ," I was born this way, were all different"
my ( | )

The divorce rate in America is over 50%, so how is gay marriage "corrupting" marriage.

Furthermore, why would you deny making someone happy when it costs you nothing?

And, denis, aren't you the one who just made a thread about your parents' intolerance of your views?

Tolerance doesn't mean acceptance.

ignorance to logic is what that thread is about...

You're displaying quite a bit yourself, friend.

Explain to me, using logic, why gay marriage is wrong. Something besides how it makes white, repressed suburbanites feel icky.

Once you do that, I'll demolish your argument. It'll be the best Christmas ever.

@PatDragon: Intelligent design might not be a legitimate scientific theory, but none the less, there is a place for it in public education. It's called history classes. Religion has played a humongous role in the history of mankind, and should be briefly touched upon in order to give students insight as to why people thought the way they did. This of course means that many religions would be briefly touched upon, which provides your "fair" balance that keeps the class as impartial as possible.

Gay marriage is wrong because...
A. Marriage is a bond between a man and a woman, and that belief has been upheld through society for thousands of years
B. Men are not supposed to have sex with men. Because it's immposible and even if it was possible the point of sex isn't there as men can't birth. So I don't think nature would allow men to be born gay.

Also explain why gay marriage is okay...

Also what logic am I ignoring here?

Gay marriage: Why not they have every right to be as unhappy as anyone else. Guns: Sure after passing manitory safety classes by licensed instructures, stiff penalties for using guns in crime. Prayer in school: Privetly and long as it does not disrupt class. Death pentalty: With recent series of people found not guilty with DNA evidence, no. The system is to falible. Abortion: Yes untill the third trimester. Evolution: ID is nothing more than an attempt to frustrate the teaching of evolution, and should be never be taught as alternative. Iraq: The politicians ended the first war to soon. The secand time was a mistake, and mismanaged at the start due to micromanagement by people not trained in the military arts. Afghanistan: Started correctly pulling troops out for Iraq, big mistake. Torture: No. Gitmo: POWs charged as war criminals. Black sites: Let face reality. As long as people are willing to use what ever means they can to hurt us, than we will need to play dirty also.

denis, denis, denis...why can't two gay men or two gay women get married? marriage means more than hetrosexual sex. let me respond to your 2 .

A: marriage, unsurprisingly, has changed through society for thousands of years, much like everything else. divorce is kind of a recent phonomenon....perhaps if we are too outlaw gay marriage, we should also outlaw divorce, in order to protect the traditional understanding of marriage 'the bond between a man and a woman'. Presumably this bond should not be broken, no?

B: who says men are not supposed to have sex with men? there used to be laws like that, but they don't exist in the Western world anymore. Who says it's impossible? Have you tried? or are we going back to your traditional understand of sex between a man and a woman? if B is a rationale for only hetro marriages, perhaps we should outlaw pre-marital sex, altogether then, and adultry, etc. because that also attacks the traditional values of marriage.

maybe while we're at, we should outlaw women from having jobs, because they should all be the mothers of our children and raise our kids because that is also traditional, and we need to protect our families.

LJ Taylor - gay marriage should never be put up to a referendum. the majority population which enjoys rights like marriages (straights) should not be voting as to whether to give the minority rights (gays), it's counter-intuitive. if this were the case, then inter-racial marriages would never have been allowed, and blacks and women wouldn't be able to vote, etc.

the biggest threat to marriage is divorce. divorce has totally reshaped marriage more than gay marriage ever will. divorce also has the potential to destory familys much more than gay marriage ever will.

Men aren't supposed to have sex with men because babies don't come out of guy's butts.

There shouldn't be laws against it and you shouldn't blatantly abuse homosexuals, but saying it's a truly natural thing is a bridge too far. I wouldn't even say the wonderful but non-coitus things heterosexual couples do to each other are "natural." How many ducks do you see giving handjobs?

or blowjobs for that matter....but i didn't say hay sex was 'natural'....but then again, marriage is not 'natural' either....

Gay Marriage: Absolutely positively YES.
Guns: no
Prayer in school: no in public schools, except if you can choose between ethic and religion x (which you can in germany), then they should be allowed to pray in religion class
Death Penalty: no
Abortion: yes, but with a needed conversation with a counseler
Evolution in school: yes, intelligent design should be shortly mentioned, and maybe if they are in religious class and their religious teacher wants to tell em okay, (note: in germany most religious teachers and pastors do not believe in intillegent design)
Wars in Afganistan/Iraq: too long issue for answering here atm, but going into both countries was pobably wrong

Gay marriage: Policical View: This shouldn't involve politics Personal View: I'm not gay, thus it doesn't affect me what other people do. They HAVE to be afforded the same rights as others (if they want to have someone recognised as their legal next of kin, and inheritance rights why the fuck should the state prevent this?)
Guns: I do not need a gun for my day to day life, I would rather live in a society where my neighbour didn't have a gun.

TMW said "Prayer in School: Private prayer by students is ok, school-led prayer is wrong in public schools" - ok, school-led prayer is mostly ignored by the students, i was schooled in two publically funded Catholic schools, I was an atheist by the end of my primary education, and mostly ignored the time wasted on my religious education (i likely would have been more receptive to a multi denominational approach)

Death Penalty: no - too many convicted criminals have been proven innocent after death in recent years (due to DNA evidence)

Abortion: Yes, government mandated abortions for those who fail to prove they will be good parents (a licensing test like for driving a car) is the only way to guarentee society will improve in the longterm. (personal choice be damned!)

TMW said "Evolution in School: Must be taught alongside intelligent design, with parent option to have their child skip the unit" - Evolution should be thought in the science class, ID should not - we do have ways of dating fossils, many many ways - they all give the same answer (to within the error estimate) that means 4 million year +/-2% is an error of 80,000 years (ie longer than recorded human history)

War in Iraq: I'm glad saddam was removed, the current puppet state is going to have a hard time establishing order. I'm glad there was no immediate pull out, the US is for once taking responcibility for their actions.

War in Afghanistan: broke the Russians in the 80s, borders Iran, who the US are trying to put pressure on, good luck.

Torture is wrong and pointless - also finding ways to get around US law and international human rights convetions makes the CIA demonstratably every bit the secret service of a evil empire - similar to the KGB or the nazi SS.

or blowjobs for that matter....but i didn't say hay sex was 'natural'....but then again, marriage is not 'natural' either....

sorry guys, i'm bad with the double posting...anyway...my views on the rest:

Dead Penalty: no, although I think the economic arguments for it are interesting.

Abortion: i'm pro-choice.. it's a woman's body, as well as her future. if you go to countries which outlaw abortion, you see a whole slew of teenaged mothers who never go on to higher education or good jobs because they have had to focus on their families at such a young age. it also means that the children may not have as good a life as they could if their parents were able to.

Prayer in School: No, but I do think students should be exposed to multiple religions in their studies in an educational way.

Theory of Evolution: Of course!

War in Iraq: Stupid, bad consequences for Iraqis

War in Afghanistan: Also stupid, but sadly necessary.

Gay marriage: If people love each other then they should be allowed to get married. It is only a problem if marriage is given some kind of special status in society.

Guns: A sign of a paranoid, fearful society.

Prayer in School: Should be banned. If children want to pray they can do so at home or at their local church/synagogue/mosque or privately. The State has no business in promoting any 'brand' of religion over any other - and therefore should remain strictly neutral.

Death Penalty: No. Another sign of an immature society that values retribution over rehabilitation. But more importantly it doesn't work. Evidence shows that crime is no lower in states/countries with the death penalty than it is in states/countries without. It is more important to focus on crime prevention and removing the reasons for crime. It can never be stopped completely - there will always be psychotic/nutty people around but killing them achieves nothing but send the message that 'the state' is perfectly happy with legitimised killing.

Abortion: Women should have the right to choose within certain limits and timeframes. On a related issue contraception should be freely and readily available and proper sex education provided to ensure that 'abortion' is not the only 'contraceptive' option.

Evolution in School: Evolution should be taught in the same way that all theories are taught - with a clear focus on the evidence. Science cannot prove that God does not exist (and nor can it prove that he does) as such the evidence should be presented and the child can make up their own mind on whether they want to believe an ancient desert book or mountains of scientific research/evidence (geology/genetics etc etc.)

War in Iraq: Should never have gone in. Saddam never supported Al Qaeda yet now the country is a breeding ground for terrorism and has radicalised Muslims all over the world. Still can't decide if it was for the oil or simply part of Cheney's/Rumsfeld's attitude to world politics and the demonstration of US power (probably both)

War in Afghanistan: We were right to go in and we are right to say. There are many signs that progress on the ground is being made in contrast to what the media often presents (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8448930.stm). It may take a long time but we have to help the country back on its feet (by helping rebuild its infrastructure) and ensure that it (and potentially nuke-armed Pakistan) do not fall to religious fundamentalists. Will it hurt yes it will but we can only win by demonstrating a resolve to stay.

@Hardin you said: "by helping rebuild its infrastructure" - what? you realise Afghanistan was one of the poorest least developed countries in the world, there is no re-build, it is building a country up for the first time. (you didn't bomb the afghanis into the stone age, it was not serbia in the 90s)

We should have gone to Iraq. Saddam was using the poor Kurds for target practice. In the end, anarchy is preferable to that asshole. Like I said, two-month shock-and-awe.

ID: It's no more or less credible then evolution. Teach both or don't even cover it at all. Parents have the option to have their children skip either unit.

Legalized gay marriage across the board is a violation of the Tenth Amendment. Marriage rights should be reserved to the states, like the Tenth Amendment explicitly says, unlike the Fourteenth Amendment, which doesn't even mention homosexuality.

If Intelligent Design is a scientific theory that should be taught in school, then so is the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Wow, my opinion of you is changing quickly here Denis.
As guy~~ points out, many sexual acts conducted by male/female partners are not intended to produce a baby. If you are using that logic then you should also ban contraception, and any intercourse methods that are not aiming for childbirth.

You obviously don't know what the Fourteenth Amendment actually is.

The Tenth Amendment is probably irrelevant because the full faith and credit clause of the Constitution says that states must honor the laws of other states. Once that law goes away I think we'll have to have gay marriage everywhere. I personally oppose gay marriage, but not enough to start ignoring the Constitution.

By that law I mean DOMA.

TMW - lots of countries use their ethnic minorities for target practice. Sudan comes to mind. The US doesn't blink in most cases, or at best scolds them harshly. That's not the reason we went to war. Remember wmd's? Oh, that's right. There weren't any.

Gay marriage; if I'm not involved, why should I care? State bans against them are arbitrary, capricious and unconstitutional. Any arguments against gay marriage that I've ever heard are built on sand.

guns; +1 for hardin. Unfortunately, they're part of American culture, so at least in America, we're stuck with them (and it's entirely possible that fear and paranoia are also part of American culture). If you want to use one, you should get a license the same way you need one to use a car.

Prayer in school; private, fine. Mandated - hell no.

Death penalty; mistakes are irreversible, and it doesn't work as a deterrent.

Abortion; reluctantly pro-choice. Until our culture decides to support single mothers and their children, women will look for abortions, legally or otherwise.

Evolution in school; this should be a no-brainer. Unfortunately, there are many no-brainers out there. ID is not science, it's creationism in a shiny box. Teach it in a comparative religion class if you must.

War in Iraq; should never have happened.

War in Afghanistan; initially justified, but we've muffed it, largely because of resources diverted to Iraq. Let's hope that we can recover.

gitmo/black prisons/torture; the worst legacy of a very bad era. It's going to take years to recover from that fustercluck.

"Gay marriage is wrong because...
A. Marriage is a bond between a man and a woman, and that belief has been upheld through society for thousands of years
B. Men are not supposed to have sex with men. Because it's immposible and even if it was possible the point of sex isn't there as men can't birth. So I don't think nature would allow men to be born gay."

Marriage has been far more than just one man, and one woman. Polygamous marriages in history, etc. The definition of marriage changes depending on what society you're talking about.

I notice you're mostly talking about men and their "inability" to have sex. This is a common thread amongst homophobic individuals. For some reason, they don't feel as threatened by lesbians as they do homosexual men. They are born that way (for the most part). If they can choose to be gay or not be gay, then so can you. But I would guess that that idea is at least distasteful. The idea of heterosexual relations is just as distasteful to them. Do us all a favor, and try to see things from the other perspective.

In the end, you basically did what I asked you not to. You don't think they should be allowed to get married because they make you feel icky.