But yeah @TrPrado is right their main water resource is about to have a HUGE raise in risk of contamination, which is the number one reason not to have this done

To respond: I do not believe that it is okay for native Americans to not have rights and be treated as they are. But the reality is they are treated that way and its because of the "war" against them. (Even though it wasn't declared the US military handed out medals for campaigns in that theater) what I see now is a problem where we have to ask the question: is it okay for a private individual or group of individuals to lay claim to an area owned by another individual based on historical realities and relationships?
If so is this only permitted by natives?
Do we extend this power to all people?
If so, could I stop the person now owning my childhood home from cutting down a tree in his yard because it was in the family for generations and holds sentimental and deep emotional value to me?

I truly feel for the plight of the native peoples of our continent, but I think that as unfortunate as it is, the course of history has left us with questions in which we have to decide whether to punish / compensate groups of people who weren't alive for the atrocities we are responding to.

It is my very clear belief that native populations would have been better off without reservations. I see reservations as government sanctioned ghettos meant to oppress and disenfranchise. If natives had assimilated earlier their standing in today's world would be much better.

But on the matter at hand I think that we should not honor claims to native burial grounds or ancestral land purely on the basis of protecting the individual property rights of private citizens.

Oh I'm not saying we give back the land, the simple matter of capitalism is: if you're not financially capable, you won't be able to keep the land, and if you're financially capable to keep the land.

The problems we have in America are this welfare system that keeps people in poverty from achieving proper financial success, and there is a racial component, but that's been heavily lessened in the last few decades. Reservations are a crap system.

And yes, the burial rights is a contentious issue and I can't really deny your point, but that fact that the pipeline goes directly underneath their water source is ridiculous

"Also, the idea that all Indians were violent is right wing revisionism"

Yeah, and the fucking idea that every White man is a racist, bigot, oppresor, evil, etc etc etc is equally qa bunch of Libtard bullshit.

NOT all White Man want to commit genocide against the Indians. (Proof being that THEY ARE STILL HERE).

The problem with you Libtards is that you see every <perceived "oppressed people -- meaning anyone not white, not male> as all equal super uber victims, who never ever ever have responsibility for their own actions, their own uplifting, etc.

It's tiresome. And frankly, it SHOULD BE really really really fucking insulting to all the groups you fuciking Libtards constantly heap pity on...because your pity comes from YOUR inherent belief that you think thjey are inferior!!! That's the real irony...Libtrards are the MOST racist, bigotted group of people out there!!

I love krellin!

Whether you agree with him or not, NO ONE posts more entertaining stuff on here.

That's mostly a commentary on the rest of us, as krellin is a font of predictable insults and stereotypes.

An example for illustration--his seizing on typical "condescending white liberals defending minorities they consider inferior" memes when talking about an incident whose most salient feature is *Native Americans defending their own values and culture*, for fuck's sake. Of course, they don't count, because they lost the war or something. And non-Native Americans don't count, because they're obviously racist if they agree with the Native Americans. So krellin has conveniently erased all legitimate disagreement from his own mind via a little bullshit and a lot of swearing. How is that entertaining? It's not even a good or interesting argument for the position he's nominally trying to support. It's a great steaming pile of nothing.

Krellin, you can take your incoming rant about how I'm an idiot libtard bigot who doesn't understand your very basic and valid and obvious points, and shove it up your ass. While you're in there, scoop out a hunk of your shit and smear that in the text box instead. It'll be an improvement.

Nobody ever cares about who is getting fucked over by some pipeline until it threatens to roll through your backyard. We still havent given justice to the innocent people of Flint, Michigan. These poor folks, dont have a chance in hell. The fact they are Native Americans only deepens the insult.

I seem to recall our promises to Native Americans have been broken before... oh thats right, we've been doing this to them for 300 years. See so before you start calling them Indians, and talk about how we won the war, consider that we have responsibility to protect them as; they are, indeed, Americans?

Eminent domain shouldnt really apply here, which is why this makes no sense. This isnt the US Govt forcing a pipeline, this is just some assfuck oil company. why the hell are local authorities allowing this? Its trespassing and ridiculously illegal.

I dont think you could find me even the most staunch republican on this website who agrees with someones personal property rights being seized for a fucking pipeline. I dont think you can find me a single intellectual on this website who can justify destroying someones water supply to make a little profit.

Brajny, they seize personal property for businesses all the fucking time. Soooooo the government adoptive a pipeline, which is arguably in the public interest because CHEAP ENERGY AND ALL THAT SHIT YOU LOVE ABOUT PLASTICS AND FUCKLIADS OF OTHER PETROLEUM-BASED PRODUCTS .......and CHEAP FUCKING DOMESTIC ENERGY...... and.... Yeah, then there is CHEAP FUCKING ENERGY....



So what the hell do you want? They should build processing plants in every county because douchebag Liberals wet their pants over pipelines? Or you want the pipeline to wind around the country side like a drink fucking snake because that's the only part they could purchase.

Go to hell.

And why isn't or Librated ever bristle in anger when an owner of private property is suddenly told t can't use their property for the intended purpose because some fucktard "discovered" a new species and it's endangered, c when the only difference between this fly and the c sixteen billion others flies in thev county in the location of a pink spot on its ass.


Sigh. Liberals are so hypocritical and annoying....

when the founding fathers initially wrote the big three, life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, it originally was drafted as life, liberty and property. the only reason they decided property should not be the main philosophical tenant of the whole concept was that property was a slippery slope. Not too mention, if they planned on establishing property as equivalent to liberty they wouldnt be able to force troop quartering on homesteads, and most certainly would never have legally been able to purchase things like the Louisana Purchase either.

Well being from nebraska, I am staunchly against the keystone pipeline. For one its a massive risk to the Ogallala Aquifer. If you dont know what that is feel free to research.

Personally krellin, I would rather have drinkable water than have gas to put in my car. I can survive without a car. lots of people do. I will die and my quality of life goes down without clean drinking water.

@Lethologicunt....TLDNR your rant because your name reminds me if some pompous asshole we all want to beat up AND YOU no doubt air the same old Liberal claptrap.... Victim bkah blah blah....I'm runs by emotion not logic.... Blahblahbkah...m

So I just don't give a duck fyck about what you have to say.

Tell the Indians to win the fight next time around in this eternally recurring universe.... Or beg forgiveness and ask how they can serve their superior new neighbours.

For the record, not every culture needs to be preserved. For the record, Someday the sun explodes or burns out and ALL culture cease to exist anyway. If you want to where a feather headdress and smokem' peace pipe to preserve some culture you care deeply about.... And yet no doubt KNIW NOTHING ABOUT then knock yourself out.

I wonder If you will be so very teary eyed if the last Conservative on earth were about to get hit by a meteor? Or would you - good asshole hypocrite that you are - gleefully urge the meteor on and celebrate the death of conservatism from the planet?

Also the majority of people most outraged by the keystone pipeline are Republican Farmers in central Nebraska who have been pushed around by the government for decades (as bo stated in the guns thread). Now they are being asked to surrender huge swaths of land to have some big ugly leaky fucking pipeline run through their ranch land.

If you dont understand why pipelines harm the environment its quite simple. They melt permafrost and in heavy winter environments like Canada, and North Dakota, and Montana, these pipelines burst under temperature shifts.

And no, this is not a joke, or an exaggeration. Pipelines burst in the Yellowstone River areas all the time, and the Tar Oil sands is a famous disaster site too.

Just do the research krellin, its not hard to understand why I could care less about big oil. I would love to see oil and shale go out of business and we scale america back to horse drawn buggies.

Brainbomb, so you works rather trains and trucks ship oil across the country? Yeah that's MUCH safer (said NOBODY EVER)


Bb.... Maybe YOU should do some research about the Actual safety of pipelines, instead is quivering in fear about everything you don't understand.

Bb... Outraged Republican farms? GOOD! THIS wonderful project is an equal opportunity offender! This pleases me greatly.

In any case flopping around like a wet fish, calling them Indians is just gonna make you look like a belligerent oaf. Youve been tuning into Rush Limbaugh too much evidently. What does winning a war have to do with jack shit?

news flash asshole, we also won the civil war too. does that mean we can turn the entire South into a kitty litter box if we want too? dont be a fucking imbecile.

How bout this, I dont really want any of that shit moving via frieght, train, or anything for that matter. if it has to happen, dont put it through a fucking water supply?

I'll take pipeline over truck and train for $800 Bob...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2014/04/26/pick-your-poison-for-crude-pipeline-rail-truck-or-boat/#2ef42b045777

thats fine, I'll take drinking water over krellin's secret sauce any day.

yea forbes.com theres a real fair and balanced website. you might as well have quoted directly off of sean hannity.

I actually clicked that link just to indulge you. and it wont even load the website. is that even a real article? lmfao.

Re Civil War.... We kicked the South's ass, and in reply they said, "Soory, massa.." And rejoined the United States and integrated back into the national culture.

That being said, you piece of shitv Liberals ARE ACTIVELY ERASING SOUTHERN CIVIL WAR CULTURE FROM THE COUNTRY AS WE SPEAK YOU FUCKING DOUXHEBAG...... Libtards gleefully are erasing historical monuments, erasing references from culture and writing, etc.

Asshole!


So YES.... If Liberals can erase the history of the South then I don't give a flying fuck about the history of pagan savages that lost a war that oppressed their women and were evil male-dominated, bigotted cultures (and probably STILL ARE)

Brqjnbimb... If you are unfamiliar with FORBES magazine, you are not is a moron than I previously thought.

I have no use for you.

Good night

I know who Steve Forbes is.

We should have probably burned every southern city to the ground like we did to atlanta when we had the chance. so they can learn that racism will never be tolerated again. We were too fogiving.

Uh, southern culture is alive and well, and I'm not just talking about sweet tea at the roadside store.

Also, brainbomb, suggesting we should burn half of the country to the ground is a remarkably horrifying and disgusting thing.

im saying in the 1860's lol. had we been harsher perhaps this type of discussion would not even exist

also the person making the argument that because a war was "won" that a culture has no right to exist anymore is actually krellin. lol.


The part of the culture im saying we would be better off if it had died, is the racism and arrogance of slave owners. krellin made the argument we are trying to white wash racism and history of the south by removing the rebel flags. So do you agree we should stop taking down rebel flags and applaud segregation?

JamesYanik had it right in the previous thread when he said we shouldn't have fucked up Reconstruction. You can thank Lincoln's decision to watch a play for that. But a slash-and-burn approach to Reconstruction would probably have been an even bigger fuck-up.