I think you can all learn something from Mr Coolidge's great quote :

"I have never been hurt by what I have not said."

Sbyvl, the moment Aztecs become synonymous with American Indians, you have proven your ignorance in the matter, and it's best that you correct that ignorance before continuing in your everlasting quest to be the best conservative because the best conservative is a really fucking smart person.

The Aztecs are from America, and they're Indians. What's the problem?

The problem? Easy. You're an ignorant douchebag.

Says the person that thinks socialism works.

I don't see how that's relevant.

But I forgot who I'm talking to... duh.

No, the Aztecs were not "Indians". That would be like saying Mexicans and Peruvians are the same because they are both Hispanic.

That's something he would say, Draug.

They are of the same race

Go home Sbyvl, you're drunk.

I'm slightly confused by this. I, like most people I know, see Indian as a colloquial term for Native American. It's not saying all Indians are the same any more than the term Asian suggests that Chinese and Iraqis are the same. The differences between the cultures of Indians of the North American plains and the Aztecs is quite obvious. Speaking as a descendant of Indians from northern Canada I have to say that we were amongst the least impressive of human societies. Living close to nature is great until nature decides to give you a kicking. If all humanity followed that example we'd exist happily for many generations and then get wiped out by an ice age.

I'm not sure who is arguing contrary to what you say, Octavious. I'm not idolizing any tribe or any people at all; I'm simply saying that Coolidge stole the little land that they had left that they considered sacred and allowed for the carving of the faces of their oppressors into the side. That's a tad bit rude, one might say...

No one can justify anything that we did to the Native Americans, all of it was absolutely inexcusable. Rushmore was just one more time that Americans defamed and disgraced Native American culture. I

Yes, that was a bit below the belt. Still, getting pissed off by it for eternity is harms only those who allow themselves to be angered. When push comes to shove what we now have is a pretty cool looking cliff which we might as well enjoy. Napoleon killed off a lot of my British ancestors, yet his tomb still makes a pretty cool tourist attraction that I quite enjoyed visiting. There is a photo somewhere of my standing next to it giving him the traditional two fingered salute ;). All good fun.

So we should just forget the past? We are discussing Calvin Coolidge, it goes without saying that we should make note of what he did. Napoleon has a cool tomb, great. He was a hell of a leader, like Coolidge, for the situation he was in. But he also committed crimes that are absolutely inexcusable of any world leader, regardless of era and regardless of political and military philosophy, and those should be noted when discussing his legacy all the same.

How are Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, and TR the Indian's oppressors?

The United States of America is the sole oppressor. Numerous leaders and millions of men and women have done so behind them. History affirms that whether you like it or not. And it continues today, to the knowledge of seemingly no one.

The problem with Sbyvl is he equated all of the Native American tribes with a particularly violent and primitive group. Perhaps we should just point out that Cromagnon mancommitted genocide against the competing Neandertahls. Or thethe Thugee cult of.India was into human sacrifice therefore all Indians must practice human sacrifice. Sbyvl needs to not generalize all the native people on this continent for millenia before Columbus arrived as barbarians.

No, Draugnar, Sbyvl is a supremacist that believes that there are inferior people in the world. That's all it is. And he completely denies history, and in this case current events, and uses abstract generalizations and stereotypes like the reference to Aztecs as a representation of all indigenous peoples to make his point.

Bo_sox: How is America the oppressor when we give special subsidies to the Indians, and when almost 60% of them are on entitlements.

Draugnar: Once again, they are all of the same race, they are all pagans, and they all were savages.

Bo_sox: Wrong, Wrong, Wrong

Lol... at least you didn't say we gave them land. That's the only lower road you could have taken.

Well, we did. The government gave them exclusive territory that no one else could settle. Again, America has given them special privileges over the years that no other race or ethnicity has.

...............................

Are you going to do dashes next?

Nah. I'll just test you. If you are an actual intellectual of any kind, you'll go figure out what you obviously haven't cared enough to figure out yet.

Sbyvl, you couldn't be more wrong or idiotic. To your first point, they were not all the same race, the Aztecs and Northern American Indians were separated by thousands of miles, that's like equating Americans and Latin Americans. Second of all, they may have been pagan, that doesnt make them in any way inferior. Ever heard of India? They are Hindu, which is a polytheistic religion, yet no one could call them in any way inferior. Lastly, they were not savages, in fact, many Native American cultures were advanced, such as the Cherokee, who had written languages, and the Inca, who were talented in many ways that we currently are not. To your final point, it was their land to begin with, which we then stole and told them they could live on, because isn't America so fucking benevolent.

I've said it once and I'll say it again just because it bugs me: Race is a cultural construct. Nothing more.

Sbyvl: If you were to compare genetic differences between you and your "race" of savages you would be shocked to find the percentage is close to none.

Sbyvl, you've made yourself clear. You're a supremacist. If you don't consider yourself a supremacist, sorry, but that's how people are going to look at you if you don't have a little bit of knowledge about these things and continue to talk that way. If you want to change that, then go out, do some research, form some *informed* opinions, and get on with life without that black mark on your forehead.

@King Actually, they were all of the same race, part of Haplogroup Q.
The link is to a map showing the spread of Q among the natives:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Haplogroup_Q_%28Y-DNA%29.PNG

India is a dump, with a low standard of living, huge amounts of disease and death, but I'm not calling them inferior, nor am I calling the American Indians inferior.

Cutting human hearts and offering them to the Sun is quite savage.

No race should get special privileges.