Works for the military...works for me.

The bigger question would be for an international ID card. Now that would be something spectacular...

We should probably all give up on the concept of personal identity.

Pros: Congratulations, you are no longer deluded about your SSN being anything else than a national ID.
Cons: By the time your new system is implemented, developed countries already moved on and used interconnected data registers that render single ID largely obsolete.

@KA, "The bigger question would be for an international ID card. Now that would be something spectacular..." its called a passport.

But with a single ID all the data could be centralized.

Imagine a world in which you just take things off store shelves and take them home, and your bank is charged.

Imagine a world where your medical history is at the fingertips of any paramedic or doctor treating you.

Etc.

There are surely a lot of scary cons, but I think we are headed this way no matter what, technology and all that.

It would be a pretty big achievement for whichever police state enacted the measure establishing their existence.

While I understand the fear of a police state argument, let me just pose two questions to those who hold such a view:

1) Are current governments not already easily capable of/currently engaged in activities to create a police state? Would a national ID card really matter much in the big scheme?

2) Is the concept of centralizing data related to people not so efficient/technologically obvious that preventing its rise would be just as impossible as stopping globalization? Better to co-opt it and make it as optimal as possible than to let it be done by Google or someone even shadier, right?

Just curious. I'm a fence sitter on this though as you can probably tell I lean towards being in favor.

The national government, rather than the state/provincial government, would usually have direct access to personal information, etc. with a national id card. With police state activities being currently pursued by many countries, I usually see the national id card as at the very least making these activities easier to be pursued.

To be honest I don't know who could be much shadier than many of the governments around the world currently in existence (including "liberal democracies" such as US, UK, et al.). And I also don't think that governments having access to the information of individuals to the extent that many do now is justifiable, so I tend not to see "technology" as providing a more efficient way of the government to collect information as a valid point. I hope I didn't lose anyone there.

The Pro already exists in a National ID every free nation has available to it's citizens. It's called a passport. As far as using it for shopping, that starts to sound an a lot like the sign of the end of times.

Revelation 13:17 - And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. (KJV)

Draug, the interpretation I've heard of that is more of reference to credit cards. Although if you combined financial information with ID cards, you could easily pay for something with your ID card and get from place to place while using it. Of course, once that happens, it will be in the midst of the end times, but it would be interesting to witness nonetheless.

I've been reading through this and I'm kind of with Thucy all the way here... nuff said.

National ID cards are the enxt step to chipping people with RFID chips like fucking pets.

The only reason why I welcome such things is because I don't really like the state of this planet all that much...too many liberals.
And if it takes the end of the world to get me off of it faster, then by all means, take me now! But y'all gonna go down in flames, and it'll make me cry, but it'll make me laugh too.

And back on mute he goes...

Thucy, as to 1 -- sure it's happening. What I don't get is why that should make me start supporting the furtherance of it.

That's flip, but I mean the point completely seriously.

As for point 2, there have been lots of tides against freedom. They all must be opposed. That's why eternal vigilance is its price.

*flip = flippant

Over here one can get proof of age cards which are simply identity cards for those without a driver's license or a passport, which is okay.

But making it mandatory, hell no.

Pro - None

Cons - Completely unconstitutional for those of us in the United States. Completely unnecessary. IDs are really only needed when you need to prove your age or prove who you are, for which a passport or driver's license will suffice. There are also many legal photo ID options in most states for those who don't drive. Really slippery slope. Would be a boon if you wanted to establish a police state.

It's really not unconstitutional first of all, and second of all, if you think that is unconstitutional, look at the GOP's argument against gay marriage ("God says so") and tell me that that argument has any flair to it anymore.

Hmm. Pros - None

Cons - If you have to carry it all the time, what happens if you lose it? Forget it? You are a naturist? Swimming? Someone steals it? Identity theft just got a whole lot easier - one thing to steal/forge/copy.

Because if the government were to implement it, the tech would be either a) at least 5 years out of date at the point of proposal; or b) unlikely to deliver the statd benefits for a reasonable cost.

And given governemnt inability to run the current, smaller databases securely and efficiently (and without error), who in their right mind thinks this will actually work.

Because it in no way shape or form makes anyone any safer. Terrorists will not think "Oh, I have no legal ID - I shall not bomb anyone today"

Right now, every form of ID I have is optional. I choose to have a drving liscence, passport, and utility bills. I can call on these when I need to prove who I am. Not at the beck and call of anyone 'official' who deems it neccessary.

My grandfathers generation fought a war to preserve our freedoms. We should not give them away - because when they are gone, they will not return

Interestingly, in the UK, it was hilarious seeing the right wing press (who always supported ID cards in the 80s and 90s) performing ingenious twists and turns as they decried the Labour government idea to introduce ID cards. Should Iggle-piggle (sorry Cameron) decide to introduce them as a key plank for the next Tory manifesto, I'm sure we will see another NewSpeak style change of heart

Pros - none.
Cons - none.

I live in an Eastern European country where carrying ID cards has been mandatory since forever. I lost my ID card two years ago. Whenever someone asks me to show it, I say I lost it yesterday. Works like a charm. With a little luck, I'll grow old without it.

@ bo_sox48

Can you please tell me where it says that the federal government has the authority to issue national ID cards?

And I am not a Republican. Don't attach me to their foolish constitutional argument against gay marriage. A much better argument would be that a ban on gay marriage is not a violation of the 14th Amendment because everyone has an equal right to a heterosexual marriage. I don't know why the GOP doesn't use that argument.

@Gunfighter:

If the Constitution doesn't say they can't, then they can, because of the necessary and proper clause.

Anyway, while I respect your principles, perhaps, all (I somehow expected the Internet would lean libertarian on this one once again), do you really think you will be able to avoid it? Is it not better to steer it in a positive direction?

"If the Constitution doesn't say they can't, then they can, because of the necessary and proper clause. "

Thucy, that's completely false, and it was held to be false as recently as yesterday.

Well, perhaps not in the collective imagination of Americans, but in practice it's true.

What do you mean with a national ID card? In the Netherlands you are required to be able to ID yourself everywhere if police asks for it.

Victorious, currently ID cards are provided by the states, not the US government.

If a social security card was a national ID card and a national ID card made it easy for the government to keep track of you then how come cops are always "hunting" for the suspect? Everyone has a national ID card (SS-card) and the government has all this surveillance equipment right?