I don't believe in god. Here's the way I see it. If I don't believe in god and there is no god, then I didn't waste any of the little time I have on this Earth. If I don't believe in god and there is a god, he'll either:

1) Recognize I was still a good person and be ok with it
2) Be upset with me and punish be for using the brain that he gave me

If case 2, I wouldn't worship him anyway, so nothing lost no matter which way you look at it.

Very true

Define "God," please?

And no matter what the answer is to that, I'm going to go with "probably not."

But there's always the chance of

3) Be angry with you for suppressing the knowledge / evidence of Him he gave you, and for not living according to His standards.

ACK! I do NOT have time for this. *sob*

I believe in God, but I don't think the all-powerful creator of the Universe is so insecure that he will throw a hissy-fit if we puny mortals fail to recognize his existence and spend all our Sundays (or Saturdays or Fridays) praising his existence.

"Be angry with you for suppressing the knowledge / evidence of Him he gave you, and for not living according to His standards."

I doubt it. Why should 1 thing be held to a completely different standard than anything else? Why wouldn't he give us some real hint as to his existence, instead of purposefully trying to confuse us? I guess you can say it's so we'll have faith, but what's so important about faith? Seems to me like it's just a cop-out.

How can you proove that God exists?

How can you prove that God *doesn't* exist?

Just look at his creation, for one. It's no more a logical reach to believe in a creator God who lives outside of the puny little space-time bubble of our universe than it is to believe that all matter and energy ?magically? sprang out of nothingness.

"How can you prove that God *doesn't* exist?"

That's a stupid question to ask.

How can you prove that invisible space gorillas don't exist?

This discussion is pointless.

"Say: O ye that reject Faith!
I worship not that which ye worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
To you be your Way, and to me mine."
-- Sūrah 109:1-6

Well, first, GDF, tell me what you do believe in.

ok i believe to prove something exists you need hard based facts, there are no hard based facts that he exists

Point Two requires a truly open mind, one that has the ability to think outside of the "only things I see are real" box. And that is to ask God if he exists, and if so, to show you who he is. I can't imagine passing up the opportunity to know God if even one person tells me that he's real and that he wants a relationship with me!!! And that's what I'm telling you.

"Just look at his creation, for one. It's no more a logical reach to believe in a creator God who lives outside of the puny little space-time bubble of our universe than it is to believe that all matter and energy ?magically? sprang out of nothingness."

Here's the thing. When I don't know the answer to something, I don't just pick one choice at random and go nuts about it. That's not a good way to make decisions. Do I know how the universe was created? No, but that doesn't mean I'm going to start worshiping a god. And, even if it did, why would I pick Yahweh? There's tons of other (and cooler) gods to chose from.

I used to think religion could be benign, I've since discarded that mistaken view.

Grand Duke--You must mean, no "hard based" facts that you are aware of.

I personally would choose GoD if I were you.
What's GoD you ask? God over Diplomacy.

Putin, if you define religion as a system of works designed to earn your way into heaven, I completely agree. But if you define it as a relationship with the one true living God, then he and I must disagree with you.

"ok i believe to prove something exists you need hard based facts, there are no hard based facts that he exists"

OK. How do you prove that?

"That's a stupid question to ask."

How so? The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. For those claiming with certainty that God does not exist, where is your evidence?

Abge, see my second post. Belief in God is not a random hypothesis at all--It's the result of the honest pursuit of the truth, however foreign to our original conceptions, worldview, or natural inclination.

This story of the sky demon's only purpose is that clerics can huckster fear and hysteria for profit. It's a horrible idea which preys on the vulnerable. Our scientific understanding long ago surpassed the need for this sky demon to fill the gaps of our understanding. It's a sad reflection of the world we live in that so many still believe in this nonsense. It says that the economic system we live in is so alienating that people have to sell their minds to superstition in order to get through it.

I don't think anyone who claims with certainty that God doesn't exist should be taken seriously.

I don't believe in god because I've seen no evidence that convinces me of his existence, which is the position I think most people who don't believe in god have. If I were to be presented with real evidence, I'd certainly change my mind.

"But if you define it as a relationship with the one true living God, then he and I must disagree with you."

So you're defining god as some personal good luck charm, with no responsibilities to any community of believers?

Um. Have you asked "If you exist, I want to know, so please show me?"

"How so? The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. For those claiming with certainty that God does not exist, where is your evidence?"

The question of whether God exists is inherently unfalsifiable. If he does not exist, that would be impossible to prove. This is not a question that can be considered scientifically.

"It's the result of the honest pursuit of the truth, however foreign to our original conceptions, worldview, or natural inclination."

I pursue truth all the time and none of it has led me to god. So, where does that leave us?

Putin, umm, no, that's not how I'm defining God.