I'll include this recent game: I played France... gameID=79515
Actually, more to showcase a less popular opening for the Franch that I prefer to call .
" LA SPLIT " ( Bre-MAO, Par-Pic, Mar-Gas )
Why? It is defendable & open & shows friendliness to all 3 neighbours...

Nice, London to the channel seems really common for gunboat games, and it's a big problem for France. Bouncing in the channel would make Germany's day, so I don't know a good opening. I like the one where you go MAO, Gas and Spain, inviting E/G to fight over Belgium and leave you alone for a while.

Opening to the channel is usually a good way to get yourself a defeat. If I am England or France and the other opens to the channel, I have an enemy already and I will move after them with all my forces. From there, Germany will likely attack England and Italy will likely attack France and they both lose.

Similarly, if you are Italy and you open to TYR and VEN, and I am Austria - I will do everything in my power to ensure that you lose to T or R.

Words to live by in gunboats: Don't be dumb

@^ : Exactly on Italy's aggressive opening against Austria. He will eventually get Trieste, but only after Italy already has Serbia and Greece, and Russia has Budapest, and a soon to be Vienna. Unless Russia has control of Scandinavia at this moment, you're not going to get support against Turkey any time soon, you will be run over by Turkish fleets.

Also @newer gunboaters : Read Orders, available at the bottom of the page. Look for support holds by your neighbors or support moves that tell you what they want you to do. Every time a unit appears to be holding on a map, go check the orders to make sure it was a hold and not a support hold or a support move that failed.

I would't claim to be an experienced gunboater, but learn the stalemate lines!

And if someone is obviously trying to hold a line to prevent a solo, don't think that taking their centers is a good idea, just because they left them undefended

I'm sure we'll get lots of interesting bits on strategy and tactics here, but there's also the little part about etiquette. If you're losing, don't slow the game down by Saving when you only have one option. It's just bad form. You're entitled to do so, of course, but don't.

To any inexperienced or new gunboaters: please PLEASE be aware of what a stalemate line is and when you need to create one. I just finished a gunboat where England had rolled through France/Germany/Russia and was well on their way to 18. I was playing Italy and pulled back from a Turkish attack to focus on the stalemate line. Turkey, needless to say, killed me, resulting in an easy win for England. Pissed me off to no end.

Just to add to Santosh's etiquette, If your playing a live gunboat be aware that it may take up to 3hrs. Don't think you've just got an hour and then abandon it when that time runs out.

Is there a specific question, or do we just write whatever springs to mind?

Seconded learn the stalemates.
Tunis Munich
Warsaw Spain.
When someone hits 10 scs those are, in order, the first centers you look for and make sure they can't hold. (Tunis and Warsaw if big power is E/F/G, Munich and Spain if big power is T/I/A. If it's Russia, go for Stp.)

Also, I agree an Italian attack on Austria is right our until the threat of a jugger is receded.

@jmeyersd
Anything that will help newer gunboat players. I was thinking along the lines of putting up links to good or bad play in our previous games as examples to back up any points on strategy or tactics, but really, anything that would be useful is welcome.

Just because centres are available doesn't mean that your units will be better served than the guy who's centre you are taking. Think about what he will do witht he units and chances are they will be better for you than the build at home. This goes for talking games too.

That's an excellent point. For instance, if France is trying so hard to seal the Med that Belgium is completely available, England and Germany would be foolish to take it, but many times do.

Do something with all of your units every turn. A good rule when you start gunboating is to never ever just hold. Ever. There is always some support you could order, or even better support you could cut

When trying to hold a far-away group of centers, never defend it with more units than the number of centers you're trying to defend, unless your base is absolutely secure (which is rare unless you have a solid alliance, or you're trying to stop a solo). For example in gameID=79720 in 1902, Austria lands in Tunis with an army and has a fleet in the Ion. France is in the Tyr and West Med. Austria then tries to hang on to Tunis with two units sitting there while Turkey walks all over him. As soon as the French moved in, Tunis should have convoyed out to Albania, and Greece might have been recovered. If not, you've still gained, because you now have one unit you can use against Turkey, instead of two units far out defending one center.

What's a good thing to do about the Black Sea in a gunboat? As an inexperienced player, if I were Turkey I would move into Black Sea. As Russia I don't think I would.

Cutting an opposing support is ALWAYS better than supporting your own unit.

This one might be more subjective, but I always like to find a friend early. Offer a support to a neighbor in 01 or 02. People respond well to displays of friendly intentions. But never be afraid to ditch that ally if things aren't going well.

Fleets are king. Remember that of the 34 centers, only 7 are landlocked. Unless you are trying to foster alliances (G/E, A/I), don't hesitate to build them. Of all the countries, only Austria can hope to solo without at least 3-4 fleets. IMHO.

The builds are very indicative of intentions. Watch them.

jmeyersd out.

RE: fleets - they are important but far more important for moving your armies than for actually taking control of SCs.

RE: Black Sea - Russia in black sea usually spells Turkey's demise. A Turkey in Black Sea is far less threatening for Russia.

To add to ^, letting Turkey into the Black Sea in 1901 is usually a nice way to get his support, especially if Italy and Austria are co-operating. As Russia, you'll eventually need to kill Turkey, no two ways about it. At all times, ask yourself who's going to help you do it. It could be Austria early. It could be Italy after you three have run through Austria. Or it could be France with his fleets in the East. Move accordingly in the north to make that happen.

Opening thoughts:

England: Yorkshire North. Just do it.

France: Put something on - not necessarily in - Burgundy, don't touch the Channel. Probably better to grab Portugal with the fleet instead of Spain so that the army that grabs Spain can go to Gascony in S02 and seal the line against a hostile German.

Germany: KISS. Getting cutesy on the first turn of a no-press game when you have the most neighbors is inviting an ass-kicking. Put yourself in position to influence Belgium and Sweden, and then dictate the alliance flow with clear, unambiguous signals of German foreign policy. Above all, Peppy had it right - trust your instincts!

Austria: Southern Hedgehog. No questions asked. You'll get Greece in 1902 if you want it that badly, that is of course unless you're successfully defending from Italy instead of getting eaten up by him.

Russia: Probably should value neutrality above all else - it's so ridiculously vulnerable that picking an enemy might literally be the only way to make it even more vulnerable. I like the Southern Defense. Don't go pick a fight with Germany.

Turkey: Some people love the Armenian opening. Some loathe it. I loathe it. Russia needs a friend, why would you give Austria the initiative in that respect for no real gain? (really, when was the last time Turkey actually saw significant advantage from this opening vis-a-vis the standard opening? I'd have to think extraordinary circumstances, like Russia playing to StP, GoB, Sil/Gal and Rum, and certainly nothing you'll actually see in a game) Just play it standard. And watch the green bastards.

Italy: Here's the fun one. Since Italy is the only power that is (essentially) never someone else's initial target, your starting position is safe enough to try anything. And short of taking Munich and imploding Germany so that EF can steamroll you next, anything can work. Just be careful and be flexible. I like attacking Austria, actually, but if Austria plays as recommended here, then that obviously won't do and you're better off going for France or Turkey first.

Two keys behind these arguments:
(1) Lately there's been a trend toward a fast-and-furious opening style, where, say, England plays Lon -> ECH -> Bre, France plays Par -> Bur -> Mun, etc. It has some theoretical merit, in that if you're the one aggressor in the room and everyone else is playing safe, you'll undoubtedly lead the board's events and dictate the fate of everyone else. In practice, I find that all it does is give someone else the chance to do that instead. My stance on it is to play safe anyway and sacrifice the theoretical gain of initial momentum for the amusement that comes when someone else gives you the same opportunity by going balls-out for your neighbor anyway.
(2) Certain wars just suck. Germany-Italy, Germany-Austria, Germany-Russia and maybe France-Italy just should not be happening. Typically when one of those states attacks the other, they're accelerating the multilateral destruction of one player by a soon-to-be-dominant alliance bloc, which more often than not will simply turn on them. Italy can get away with attacking France because of its initial security, *maybe*, but I'm inclined to want to start that war - and France really has no business antagonizing Italy early. And then the other pairings are pretty transparently obvious - any of Germany's eastern neighbors want Germany to be the super-absorbent anti-EF punching bag, and while there may not be an EF if AIR don't attack G, there almost certainly will see one develop if AIR do attack G.

Also, I tend to disagree with the notion that fleets are the key to victory. *Some* naval presence is crucial to everyone, even Austria, but armies are far more decisive - while there aren't many landlocked SCs, there are plenty of crucial landlocked spaces that will decide the ability of a country to convert a strong naval presence to an outright win. A general rule of thumb I like is that for each "sector" of potential naval influence - Turkey/Eastern Med, Italy/Austria/Central Med, France/Western Med+MAO, England, Scandinavia - there's really no use for more than 4 fleets at a time:

Turkey: BLA, EMS, AES, ION
Italy: ADS, ION, TYS, Tun
France: GoL, WMS, MAO, ECH
England: ECH, NTH, IRI/NAO*, NWS
Southern Scandinavia: HEL, Den, BAL, GoB
Northern Scandinavia: SKA, Nwy, BAR, GoB

*: Five fleets is more useful than 4 here, of course, but as IRI and NAO serve very similar purposes (backdooring into Lvp) you can suffice with 1 and do fine.

Scandinavia I had to split into two. You'll probably want 5-6 fleets concentrating on Scandinavia if you have to take the whole thing at once (say, lategame Russia/Germany owns it and you're England about to stab that long-time ally), but you can get by with 4 if you divide and conquer; hence the split into Southern (which looks more at Germany honestly) and Northern (Scandinavia proper + St. Petersburg).

At most you'll only want to add more than 4 fleets in cases where:
(a) you're engaged in a 2-front naval war (Italy, fat off of dominating Austria, moves against Turkey only to find France gearing up to hit him in the back), or
(b) you're England (rarely Turkey) and find convoy chains compelling.

@PE,
How u gonna play goonboat when u got n0 points?

Again, I'd like to reiterate the need to know stalemate lines.

I was banging my head on my desk during the last hour of this game: gameID=79767

France is a complete and utter jackass.

'lucky Turk' ;) ehehehe

What's interesting about GB is the subtle signals one can (or not!) convey to the other players :)

The ironic part is that I was in two games simultaneously that played out exactly the same: I was England with a dominant Turkey, I was fighting France; except in our game, Dharma, France realized that fighting me was useless if he wanted in on the draw, and the other game, France was a dipshit.

idk zlut how do i guunbat w/o pts??

Bump.

always build a 2nd fleet as france in 01. it's going to bug either e or i, but it must be done.

gameID=79842 is another fine example to show you why you need to either know the lines or constantly be thinking of them in endgame. Italy missing it cost them the game.

7 Boats for Eng.

Opening for France :
F bre-mao
A par-bur
A mar supp par-bur

If England moves to eng F mao bounces him out of bre. If not, take por.

A mar takes Spain unless a lunatic Italian has moved to pie (unlikely in gunboat)



A bur has a choice of bel or mun.

Yeah, while I can't claim to have a vast array of gunboat experience compared to some of the guys on the site, I will say this: a good gunboater's units never hold. Check the order archive.

Also, look for the signs, and follow the whole game and not just your little corner. Don't attack some dude who's on the front line of holding off the game's most powerful player. How will a 2-center gain help you when the powerful guy plows you down? later on? In a WTA, not too much. Even in ppsc, the draw is probably better for you.

Support other people's moves. If you can learn to gain allies without talking, that gives you a huge edge.

@YadHo: that's France's strongest opening, but looks quite anti-German...

@Dharmaton. It does look anti-german. If peace required you can support hold at mun or put in a support for mun-bel and hope he reads the orders ;-)

England Opening.

Forget the channel.

F edi-nwg
F lon-nth

Guarantees a build from nor even if Russia is perverse enough to move mos-stp.


A lpl-yor.

Available to be convoyed to nor/den/hol/bel - or to protect lon if there are naughty frenchmen in eng!

Re: Turkish opening strategy

Contra President Eden, I am a fan of the Armenian opening, but with a variant: instead of moving F Ank-Bla, I like to move it to Con. It's pretty rare that you'll get two build in '01 as Turkey, no matter how you open. The Arm/Con opening allows you to do some cool stuff in autumn and with your build. If Russia opens to the Black Sea, then he isn't in Rumania to threaten Bulgaria, and if Austria is, Russia is usually more worried about that than Turkey. So Bulgaria is likely safe regardless. You can self-bounce with Arm and Con in Ank in Autumn 1901, and Russia cannot take any of your home centers. Many Russians will get paranoid about Sevastopol and move Black sea back there, which is awesome.

The nice thing about the Armenian opening with the fleet move to Constantinople is that it allows you to decide where you need fleets more. If Austria and Italy are going to be working together, in which case you build a fleet in Smyrna to go with your fleet in Constantinople, and you've got the East Med-Aegean-Bulgaria defensive wall set up before Italy can get over to convoy behind your lines. Russia will either recognize the threat posedby the AI and join you in applying pressure to Austria, or he will try and take you out, in which case, you're utterly screwed. If Austria and Italy are fighting each other, it usually gets pretty savage and unrepairable pretty quickly, so you can focus on driving Russia out of the Black Sea rim entirely by no later than S1903 with a fleet build in Ankara. If Russia builds a fleet in Sev to go with his fleet in the Black Sea, he's usually just painting a giant "Stab Me" sign to show to Austria. Alternatively, you can get a train working on Austria, or maybe even Italy, if you build a relationship with Austria. Regardless of what happens, the Arm/Con opening and self bounce gives you at least a naval draw on whichever fron you feel the most pressure, and frequently, it will let you knock Russia out of the South altogether.

le bump

^That's an interesting opening, I wonder how much it applies to gunboat. I would really like to try it sometime. Seems to me it'll create a huge muck up between Russia and Turkey, and if Italy is faithful to Austria, the east half is going to be all red very soon.

@Yad - the 'Churchill' - stand by it, ..++. a-Lvp-Edi !!!

@Bob - Nice, Ilike it, might give a few test runs ;)

Not against me, I hope. Strong Turkey is a nightmare; they can totally choose their own pace and are guaranteed a seat at the table.