I’m not sure about forcing the draw, but the whole idea of the draw is that at some point ALL the players are convinced that the game is not gonna progress and nothing is changing – most probably a stalemate situation. Another scenario is when an alliance based on the agreement of the final draw wipes out all the enemies, and no stab occurs in the end (no one of allies tries to go solo win). And one more possible situation leading to draw (mostly observed in live games in my opinion) is when somebody CD’s and the game loses its fun.

If somebody is about to CD (or CD’d already) and the rest players agree for the draw – just go ahead and vote for it – only the votes of the active (not in Cd) players are needed for draw to occur.

cool, thanks guys.

mods will only enforce a draw if it is seen to be neccesary for the 'fun' of the site.

The rules specify that each player has a responcibility to keep the server 'fun'. This can be interpreted fairly loosely by the mods, but we prefer to avoid getting invovled if possible.

Where does it say we have a responsibility to keep it fun? This is war man. There ain't no fun in war! But seriously, I was under the impression (in fact it has been stated) that the mods would interview the holdout and if he could show be has a plan that could alter the outcome, they let the game continue.

http://webdiplomacy.net/rules.php

ok, i have never forced a draw under these circumstances.

i believe intervieing may be appropriate.

In my opinion if the outcome is dependant players in a stalemate position not entering orders (so the refusnick is hoping to bore the other player to death) then i believe this contradicts the rule "Help the mods & admins keep our server fun."

In the case where it is 1901 and someone has just CD'd i'd cancel as opposed to drawing because it's not a game yet... imho

Well, I would say hoping for a NMR is *not* a valid strategy. Trying to tempt one of the other's to stab because it's PPSC and they'll get more points, or knowing that one of the SCs is a coin toss and you'll eventually hit it right are completely different than using something outside the game like an NMR.

And I was kidding about the "fun", hence my comment about it being war.

On another site someone who was into statistics had worked out how long it would take to "guess right" in one of those coin toss SCs. A NMR would be more likely IMHO, but depending on the circumstances, I would plead my case to the mods to keep the game going if I thought I had the win.

If it is clear that a player is refusing to draw with no plan other than waiting for a player to NMR, we will draw the game. However, this is done only after communicating with the players and considering the situation carefully. If you'd like us to look at a game, please email us.

I just looked at the game in question (the only one the player is in that a non-mod can see, but is obviously the one) and there are no coin tosses and there is no way to convince one of the other players to stab as they all make more points with the draw than with a strong second right now. This should be forcibly drawn.

@The Czech - assuming a true coin toss, each turn has a 50/50 shot. While it could go on for ever, it will usually end in 3 seasons or less. Hardly that long. I would apply the 3 or 5 year rule in that case. But I'm not a mod...

Link please?

Click on the OP's name and look at the first game in the list.

Ya, that's a drawn game.

I disagree, but can't say why since that would be interfering with the game. Even more than we are already. If any non-players are interested, I could PM.

Okay, game has been drawn now.

Were I Turkey, I would have pulled back to a safe stalemate position (Sev/Rum S Ukr, Bud/Tri S Vie, Apu S Ven, Rom S Tus, Nap S TyrSea, Ion S Tuni, and one army left over) and then try and talk the other bigger guys (France and Germany) into stabbing England and Russia to reduce the draw size. Of course the eventually hope is that you can then use England and/or Russia against the others to get the solo.

Of course depending on the diplomacy the others may still have stuck together. But at least it gives you a shot and no risk since you've got a solid stalemate line.

Seems like a lot of times players will push forward until they hit a wall and then not know what to do. Sometimes backing up will let you steer around the wall. Give the other players some rope to hang themselves with. Blah, blah, blah.

But strategically, there was no way to advance. Assuming good players, I would doubt that even backing off would have changed the outcome except to allow the good players to move on you more and possibly put you to the test.

To be clear, the mods didn't draw that game.

Hmm... I wonder if the remaining player happened to read the forum. I hope we didn't unduly change the course of the game.

clearly you take notation and then declare a draw by threefold repetition or the fifty move rule :P

The player actually finally came to his senses, after I mentioned that the rest of us were considering reporting to the game to the mods. I think he was about to give in to our demand anyway.

Oh by the way, I was extremely lucky in that game as I was Russia and I could've been eliminated without having Turkey reach 18 centers. As far as I know, no one knew that or cared to mention it in the game. I consider myself fairly lucky to get out of that one alive. :)

@Draugnar, since it was a PPSC game, I am assuming the Turkish player would have preferred a draw that was more commiserate with his size. That was possibly attainable. And with the stalemate line I mentioned (after the game finished), he would have been completely safe while giving the others room to turn on each other.

@rollerfiend, eliminating you without you being able to take revenge by helping Turkey solo, would have been difficult. They could take StPete or Norway and let Turkey take Warsaw and Moscow, but then you'd still have one center and unit left with which you could help Turkey. If England had a fleet instead of an army, then they could have taken you out. But without Turkey backing off, you were safe as long as no one was stupid or feeling gutsy.

Alright, I have to step in and say: Don't use the threat of a reported game like that. That's disgraceful and borderline metagaming. Turkey was well within his right to say "Fuck that, I'm not drawing at five!" and to go threaten to report him for that is despicable and discourages good play.

I understand this was probably out of ignorance of the situation, because not everyone was acquainted with stalemate lines. And contacting a moderator to ask for an inquiry into whether a draw should be forced is okay... but threatening to report a player for this is dragging external factors into the game to influence it. (aka metagaming.)

Also, with all due respect to Alderian, it wouldn't really have been difficult, I think, to kill Russia. Germany and France could hold the Mediterranean bottleneck without the English fleet in the Channel, and actively helping Turkey into St. Petersburg would have been difficult to do considering he would have to beat German fleets in Finland and Livonia from a starting position in Sevastopol.

The real snag I see is that it would almost certainly necessitate England... and I would think that Turkey wouldn't want a 4-way draw. Which would mean England goes, and England certainly wouldn't help kill Russia just to get eliminated himself -- AND England could actually do some damage.

Russia could have been eliminated, but Turkey would have gotten a piece in the process bringing him that much closer to the win. But the thing is, I don't believe they would have risked Turkey growing and doing something the rest of them couldn't predict. And realistically, the easiest place to back off would have been in the Med allowing France to possibly move against England anyhow.

@Eden - Did I miss something? The OP mentioned nothing about threatening to report him. Was it in the global press? I didn't see it there. The only thing I saw was them encouraging him to draw or they'd ask a mod to force it. That is well within their rights. The cross game deal that someone tried to set up was unacceptable though.

Oh, and Turkey (CaptainPrice) is a total dick for calling the mods total dicks. It was a stalemate. No doubt about it.

@Draug, just above my previous post...

"The player actually finally came to his senses, after I mentioned that the rest of us were considering reporting to the game to the mods."

@PE, yeah, may not have been as risky as I suggested, but if Turkey had backed up a bit, would have been even less risky.

@Draug: Maybe I misread, but it sounded like they were threatening to report the game and player to the moderators for not drawing.

perpetual check usually works too...