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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Rooster Man (0 DX)
08 Oct 09 UTC
Live Game Now Join Join
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=14073
0 replies
Open
TiresiasBC (388 D)
08 Oct 09 UTC
Interest in a live gunboat tonight?
Haven't been able to get one going the last few nights, but I thought I'd test the waters.
23 replies
Open
Baron Samedi (319 D)
06 Oct 09 UTC
Quick question
say a unit attempts to move, but fails.
Does a support hold on that unit's original province still work?
6 replies
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airborne (154 D)
06 Oct 09 UTC
Variants on the site?
I would like to ask what variant do you want to see on this site and what ones you don't
29 replies
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hitchhiker (341 D)
07 Oct 09 UTC
Gunboat Anonymous-2
i will need a pause for at least till sat, hopefully i can get online earlier, but there was a death in the family..

I hope you all can read this, because i have no other way of contacting anyone.
2 replies
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paulsantac (179 D)
06 Oct 09 UTC
hmm just wondering
If you were in a vehicle that could travel faster than the speed of light and you turned on your headlights would you be able to see them?
40 replies
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TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
07 Oct 09 UTC
Diplomacy World Out
http://www.diplomacyworld.net/
0 replies
Open
`ZaZaMaRaNDaBo` (1922 D)
07 Oct 09 UTC
Minnesotaaaaa Twinsss
Tie game in the 10th!
18 replies
Open
Dee Eff (1759 D)
07 Oct 09 UTC
1050 point Anon WTA needs new England
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=13503
England CD'd, it'd be nice if someone played in his stead. Don't announce so in this thread if you do, please, it's an anonymous game :)
3 replies
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TiresiasBC (388 D)
06 Oct 09 UTC
Who's interested in a 24h gunboat game?
Exactly what it says on the tin.
6 replies
Open
Babak (26982 D(B))
04 Oct 09 UTC
Do you agree? (2)
"Life is empty and meaningless,
and its empty and meaningless
that its empty and meaningless."
32 replies
Open
Babak (26982 D(B))
29 Sep 09 UTC
Washington-area Face-to-Face Tournament
IF you live within driving distance of DC, there is a 3-day dip tournament coming up (Fri Oct 9 to Sun Oct 11) in Tysons Corner. there are 40+ players signed up already...

http://www.ptks.org/tempest.php
15 replies
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flashman (2274 D(G))
07 Oct 09 UTC
Digital Photography... How good are you?
The link demonstrates a pet grumble of mine. I will add the ranting bits below.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/west_yorkshire/8293069.stm
3 replies
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tilMletokill (100 D)
07 Oct 09 UTC
Watch out here I come!!!!
(Long techo solo)
What song is this?
2 replies
Open
hellalt (70 D)
06 Oct 09 UTC
Live Gunboat Game NOW!
gameID=14028
5 D, 5min/turn, anonymous, wta
20mins to join
25 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
06 Oct 09 UTC
"May He Swim Across the Universe"
George Harrison, one of the four Serpae Tetras I just got for my new tank, along with John, Paul, and Ringo, was found dead tonight under the pirate ship.

RIP George- My Fishnet Gently Weeps :'(
2 replies
Open
WINGS (100 D)
07 Oct 09 UTC
WINGS
new games put on by the one they call by WINGS
0 replies
Open
Dunecat (5899 D)
06 Oct 09 UTC
Only 40 minutes left: join us!
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=13972

200 point bet, 1 day phases
0 replies
Open
hellalt (70 D)
06 Oct 09 UTC
Live Gunboat Game NOW!
gameID=14014
WTA, 5 D buy in
You have 30 min to join in!
2 replies
Open
LitleTortilaBoy (124 D)
06 Oct 09 UTC
Moving around Spain
So you have a fleet in the Mid that you need to get to the Med. How?
11 replies
Open
jarrah (185 D)
04 Oct 09 UTC
What NOT to do in a WTA Game – How to avoid? (new suggestion)
While I don’t want to get involved specifically in the allegations raised by Babak in a previous thread (although I largely agree with Babak), I think that this problem could be avoided if the points system set up on this site was to be used for its intended purpose... Read more below....
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jarrah (185 D)
04 Oct 09 UTC
Most noobs wouldn’t be aware about the genesis of the points system on Diplomacy.

A long time ago in a place far far away, Diplomacy was played without points. Over time, as the game became more popular, there were more and more CDs, people taking on too many games, and an inability to be easily able to know who was a “good” player and who was a “bad player” and how to easily and effortlessly find people who would not go into CD.

So, the wise old owls (Kestas et al) who were running the site, introduced “points” with the aim of being able to easily allow for more games between people of the same skill. Largely, all the aims of introducing a points system worked.

This relates to Babak’s well-founded complaint about suboptimal playing by Dragnaur. Assume someone has a habit of playing suboptimally, and another player has a habit of usually winning (eg. Babak). It is obvious that the player with suboptimal tactics would leak points, and usually not exceed 100 D. On the other hand, the “good” players would gain points, so that their balance would rise to a total where they were as good as any other players on any given points level.

If the points system was actually used by the good players (eg Babak) to discriminate who their opponents were, then there would never be any possibility that they would have to submit to playing with players (eg Dragnaur) who the good players find so outrageously objectionable.

This doesn’t apply exclusively to Babak. Instead this is just a pertinent example. If you’ve got, say 3000 D, then why not try to play a 300 point game if you’re looking for a good challenging game against other skilful players.

Instead people focus on Ghost Ratings**.

Now this diatribe would be complete, except the WebDip rating system is imperfect (IMHO). Firstly, the overwhelming majority of players have less than 500 D. If you wanted to exclude noobs/suboptimals then you would have to set a buy-in of 101 D. But this, if you’ve only got 300-400 D, is a significant strain on your resources, and if you lose then you’re back down to the 200-300 range, and incapable of joining any further 100+ games without another significant hit. So then people just create games with 10, 20, 30 D instead and complain when players go CD or do daft things (like the sort Babak was complaining about).

My recommendation to Kestas is that people should not be allowed to bet more than ¼ or their points. This way, if experienced players wanted to exclude noobs/others from games, all they’d need to do is start a game worth 26 D, instead of the usual 101 D. And, if players with 1000+ wanted to exclude those with less than 500 D, they’d just need to start a game worth 125 D. Simple really.

My recommendation to other players, especially those who can afford it, is to start and join games with a high buy-in. Simple really.

Comments welcome...

**Ghost ratings have their place too, it’s another way of determining skill in a very fair manner. However, due to the fact that V is fixed and not chooseable in setting up a game I think it is best to not have ghost ratings as the “official” ratings. Unless it is possible to have a system where the 17.5 is variable... but still that would not allow you to exclude people from games who didn’t have the requisite points... Some mathematical twist may be possible to implement though......

(Sorry for the length of this!)
Gallando (255 D)
04 Oct 09 UTC
We are humans, Draugnar's reaction is human, I concede that being human is suboptimal, but that's why we prefer to play chess against a human and not an AI. I am sure revenge plays a part in everybody's gaming, no matter how many points they have. And I don't think that avoiding your enemies from getting points is a bad strategy, things have gotten overblown because Draugnar played well enough to be 2nd by the end of that game.

If there isn't any better idea I am with the 1/4 bet limit proposed by jarrah, but also new games could limit the minimum points of joining players, no matter the bet size. It'd seem just like a passworded game for which we don't have the password.
Perry6006 (5409 D)
04 Oct 09 UTC
I think points are great, and it shouldn't be too complex a system for that.

Sometimes people in WTA games are playing to achieve 'revenge' rather than stopping a Solo. It can be old grudges, perceived injustices , haugty behaviour by another power or whatever , anyhow, all leading up to a Solo Win.

That is Diplomacy to me.
A Solo-stopping alliance, often fail to form, or break apart, because the of the mix of people that are included in that alliance

That behaviour will never stop (nor do I want it to stop), whatever scoring system is being used.
Draugnar (0 DX)
04 Oct 09 UTC
Bring up Babak's complaining again and I will meta you so fucking hard... You didn't want to continue, you said, but every thrid fucking line mentions it. Shut the FUCK UP about it! I did what I did to get revenge for their trying to kill me. It had nothing to do with points or GhostRatings because it was ANONYMOUS! I didn't know who had what points or ratings wen I was doing it. Jesus FUCKING Christ you are a FUCKING moron.
Draugnar (0 DX)
04 Oct 09 UTC
Sorry, I'm sick and tired of hearing how bad a player I am from someone who didn't follow through on his attacks. You never, ever, leave a nation to survive. HE was the idiot who did that. England and Italy could have finished me off or kept me contained. They chose to let me have a chance to rebuild and I got my revenge. At that point, I didn't give a fuck about winning or drawing. I wanted them dead. I got what I wanted.
jarrah (185 D)
04 Oct 09 UTC
My main point here is not whether Draugnar erred or whether people will choose to not always play to win (which some people always won't).

My main argument is that the points system could avoid the need for those "good" players to ever have to play against people who they think are not playing to win no matter what. I think this is achievable by simply allowing people to join games ONLY if they have at least 4x the number of points of the game buy-in. Thoughts?
vamosrammstein (757 D(B))
04 Oct 09 UTC
But that ruins the ability to set a new record for high pot games.
Something I am really looking forward to doing once I get a few more points btw:]
Gallando (255 D)
04 Oct 09 UTC
So your only objective is to avoid people that play following some absolutely legal strategy from playing the games you're in? Way to go, dude
jarrah (185 D)
04 Oct 09 UTC
Gallando: That is one consequence of such a system. It's generally about self-filtering games to allow for people of the same skill playing each other.

Vamo: What is the current record? (I'm relatively new here but very experienced on FB dip)
Xapi (194 D)
04 Oct 09 UTC
I think the idea has some merit to it, given that the minimum is set at 25 D (That is, if you have 50 D (because the rest are invested) you are still able to bet as if you had 100.

This is specially important for leagues and such, where people need to enter games and sometimes set aside the 5 D needed, under your system they couldn't join (they'd need to have 20).
jarrah (185 D)
04 Oct 09 UTC
I suppose where people have <20 D you could allow them to join any game costing 5 D...
Draugnar (0 DX)
04 Oct 09 UTC
Why not make it 25% of total points (not just available) then you'd always have the option of joining up to 25 point games as long as your available was that high as well. Because everyone always has 100 total or better. For instance, my available is 98, but my total is 188.
Alderian (2425 D(S))
04 Oct 09 UTC
I think the 25% of total points is a good place to start. But I would also allow an extra 5% per completed game - 25% per game left in civil disorder. (Min 0% adjustment and max 75% adjustment.)

So the more games you complete, the more flexibility you have. Once you've completed 15 games (assuming no CDs), then you've got 100% flexibility.
I agree with the two aforementioned posts. The combination of the two would be awesome.
vamosrammstein (757 D(B))
04 Oct 09 UTC
The record is 10003 pot, which translates to 1429 per player.

My goal is to get to anywhere between 1500 and 2000, and go all in, setting a new record. But if your idea goes through I'll have to wait til I get at least 6000, and that is not cool:p
orathaic (1009 D(B))
04 Oct 09 UTC
your whole idea is stupidly flawed.

if i can only ever bet 1/4 of my point, then in effect i only have 1/4 of the points it shows.

and in all cases this effecting everyone equally means NOTHING to anyone.
mathematically it is the same as the current system.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
04 Oct 09 UTC
sorry didn't read the rest because the opening is pointless, other people's suggested change are not nothing.
jarrah (185 D)
05 Oct 09 UTC
"mathematically it is the same as the current system."

Orathaic, you are wrong here. Currently, a noob can enter a 100 D game, then he is out of points. Under my proposal, he can only enter 4x 25 D games.

Similarly, if a 200 D player wants to avoid noobs he currently has to set a buy-in of 101 D. Most 200 D players would baulk at risking half their points just to avoid noobs. But, if he could set a buy-in of 30 D and that would exclude noobs/dipfools, then his gaming experience would be enhanced, and the rationale of the points system, i.e. allowing players to play others of the same skill, would also be enhanced.
Yeah, he's right orathaic. If he loses his game he's at 170 and can bet at most 42, which the new accounts still can't enter. If he makes another game at 30 and loses he will be at 140. He will be able to bet at most 35. The new accounts still can't enter!

1/4 may be a stretch though. I'd put it at 1/3.
spyman (424 D(G))
05 Oct 09 UTC
I think jarrah's idea has merit. I can't really see a downside.
Mind you, personally, I would like to see the end of PPSC altogether, and just have WTA.
Perry6006 (5409 D)
05 Oct 09 UTC
While I never play PPSC myself - why not have it as an alternative for people who are just starting out in Dip? If you dont like it - dont play it!
kleemm (171 D)
05 Oct 09 UTC
Here is a simple solution to this problem, When you create a game be able to set what the minimum points of an opponent is that is completely seperate from the bet. (Ex. If I have 200 D and only want to play with people over 100 I can bet anywhere from 5-200 but require players to have at least 100 D). I know you're thinking this will cause everyone to bet the minimum, but i feel the high rollers will still do what they want, and the pickier players can choose the skill level of the other players without making a massive bet
spyman (424 D(G))
05 Oct 09 UTC
"While I never play PPSC myself - why not have it as an alternative for people who are just starting out in Dip? If you dont like it - dont play it!"

Because everybody should think just like me, Perry6006. That's why. :P
spyman (424 D(G))
05 Oct 09 UTC
I think PPSC encourages a certain kind of game culture, which I find distasteful (maybe that's just me). I think if we didn't have PPSC, it wouldn't take long before no-one would miss it. We would all be happy with the WTA system and nobody would metagame and we wouldn't have multiaccounters, and people would be more civil to each other on the forum and in the games. Soon word would get about what a great site this and webdiplomacy would become legendary all throughout the internet.
I don't like the whole points system either. It might well be that no-one has come up with a better system, but if there was another way, I would support it.
Alderian (2425 D(S))
05 Oct 09 UTC
Metagaming and multiaccounting could happen just as well under WTA as PPSC. It would however eliminate people playing for strong seconds instead of stopping a solo. But that's a whole different subject from the original topic.
Babak (26982 D(B))
05 Oct 09 UTC
spyman thank you very much for a great argument... I too would love to see PPSC totally done away with.

Jarrah, one issue (relates to spyman's point) is that a lot of the 'bad' players play PPSC games to harvest points (with meta or game-long alliances) then they are back up to the points caps... but I really do dig your idea... but I think kleeman's idea is even simpler and probably easier to code... i REALLY like it...

set a minimum standard for players who can join your games... it can be minimum points, or minimum games finished etc... i really like that option and it does exactly what you had in mind.

as for Draugnar and Gallando - everyone else seems to 'get' why i'm pissed at Draugnar, and you two seem to refuse to want to understand. your perogative.... but what you are writing above had nothing to do with why i was upset at his play.
jarrah (185 D)
05 Oct 09 UTC
Indeed, I too think that PPSC is silly, and that is why I never play it. However, I acknowledge others' preferences for it so am against its abolition.

Klemm: The problem with your approach is one of fairness IMHO. It could also lead to the inability of noobs to get experience, whereas a points based approach would not necessarily completely exclude them.

In terms of zaza's idea to go for 1/3, I'm not fussed. Whether it's 1/3, 1/4, 1/2 or similar, I think it would be an improvement to the current system.

Alderian, I think your idea of 5% extra per game is good, but suffers from complexity, and creates too many additional variables for the system to manage. I like to think that the "Jarrah solution" is nice and simple ! ;-P
jarrah (185 D)
05 Oct 09 UTC
Babak - just got your message.

Although I disagree with the Klemm solution, I do think it would be an improvement on the current system.

I think another benefit of any change would be to restore the importance of points, a tally that any player can see at any time by going to halloffame.php
spyman (424 D(G))
05 Oct 09 UTC
Sorry a little off topic I know... but perhaps if we separate stats. One for WTA and one for PPSC. Player would soon work out which stats had more cred.
Babak (26982 D(B))
05 Oct 09 UTC
very true... points become relevant again. hmm...

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62 replies
cmpardue (100 D)
05 Oct 09 UTC
Fleet movement from North Africa
I would like an admin to look at this but currently I have a fleet in North Africa and I would like to move to Spain. I believe this is a legitimate move according to the rule, but when I select move, it is not giving me the option to move to Spain.
9 replies
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duzenko (175 D)
06 Oct 09 UTC
NMR
What is NMR?
3 replies
Open
ʎǝ1ɯn1ɹ (0 DX)
06 Oct 09 UTC
Wow... This is pretty cool.
Hehehe... I just did this to see if it would work. You can ban this account now if you want to. Although I might prefer to keep this one. :-)
6 replies
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JECE (1248 D)
03 Oct 09 UTC
A possible tool in the fight against meta-gaming?
Could there be an option for having only the pre-game phase anonymous? I think this could help some.
30 replies
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`ZaZaMaRaNDaBo` (1922 D)
05 Oct 09 UTC
Live Game
In case the other one doesn't go ahead. gameID=13998
49 replies
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ParanoidFreak (100 D)
06 Oct 09 UTC
Live Game restart (see below)
Just shamelessly publicizing someone else's game ;)

gameID=14004
3 replies
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Geofram (130 D(B))
05 Oct 09 UTC
I'm looking for a good game.
There are plenty of people I'd like to play another game with, but I'm willing to play with anyone.
8 replies
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Maniac (189 D(B))
04 Oct 09 UTC
Another post about meta-gaming...
just wanted to know what others would do if anything.
17 replies
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Morandini (137 D)
05 Oct 09 UTC
Cheating in a game
I am playing in a gunboat game, with anonymous players, but i am in doubt if 2 of the players are playing honestly.
What should i do?
20 replies
Open
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