Bumping for the star (the name of the next game I start)

Bump, I'll make some opening comments later on. In the meantime get talking to your TA's and each other. Tru you now have TD powers over this SoW as well.

Thanks, jmo.

Bump. With another 7 hours, it may be late for opening statements.

But since it's the opening, I guess the other opening statements on the beginners game are equally valid.

Spring 01 has passed, looking forward to the analysis!

I'm not. Eesh.

Neither am I. Shoulda changed some things.

I shouldn't have :-D

Since this is an intermediate game, I'm probably not going to spend so much time on analysis along the lines of "X is in a good position". You're all strong players, and you can read the board, and since you have access to press and I don't, your analysis should be better than mine.

What I'm going to try and do is to point out some of the things I notice which look interesting, and how I'd interpret them. So, with that in mind:

A Mos - Sev

This move, combined with War - Ukr and Vie - Tri, sends a pretty clear signal about how your negotiated things this turn. It's obviously hard to give out top marks when two of your four units don't move, so I'm guessing you were pretty certain Sev - BLA would succeed. But, the results in the south really weren't all that bad for you this turn. The most important thing to do early in the game is to find an ally, and if F01 goes as I expect it to, I'd rather be Russia then Turkey right now. Ultimately, if you get the negotiations right, you can make up for tactical setbacks.

A Par - Pic

If this were in Burgundy, France could assure himself of a minimum of two builds, while in the current situation France is not. If Italy were not in Piedmont right now, you'd be in a strong position. Seeing Bur and ENG open indicates you successfully built trust with your other neighbors, but now you face an interesting decision in the Fall. I think there's a clearly best answer here, and I'm hoping you find it.

Ven - Pie:

Ven - Pie certainly is unfriendly to France, and will make France upset, by itself it does not make France upset in a way that requires a war. At the moment, it's an unwanted nuisance, possibly worse, but not committal on either side. To put it another way, if France issued an ultimatum that Pie must leave or else it would mean all-out war, should Italy consider that credible? In other words, Ven - Pie weakens France, but so far at no real cost apart from the opportunity to put that army elsewhere). And, if there were no army in Piedmont, France would have had an excellent first turn. Having said that, the S01 moves now open up several other possible tasks for that army, and the reason the army is a mere nuisance is that the Pie - Mar corridor, without supporting units, simply isn't an effective invasion route. So, sticking a unit in Piedmont is a balance of power move, and an effective one, but not something that's going to get you centers. Determining which takes priority going forward will probably occupy much of your press this season.Which brings us to the last point...

German and Italian flexibility:

Five powers are left with a clear sense of direction after S01, with a clear path forward. These things change, of course, but A, E, F, R, and T all have a sense of how the early game is shaping up for them, and have immediate tasks. Germany and Italy don't yet, and their choices over the next couple of turns will play a large role in determining who really is in the best position, both East and West. Every player on the board should now have a strong preference for what G and I do over the next couple of turns. We'll see who comes out best.

Powers that improved their position the most in S01: A, G
Powers whose position deteriorated the most in S01: F, T

bump

Thanks CS, you're right, this is the level of comment I'm looking for, thanks!

When you say Turkey's position deteriorated, I assume it must be due to the movements of the other players as Turkey's opening was pretty standard. Is the fact of Turkey's deteriorating position due to the moves A and R and especially their DMZ? If this is bad for Turkey is it not equally bad for Italy? Should Italy be reconsidering the move west (ie begging for forgiveness) as a result of the potential "Better Juggernaut" alliance?

what is a better juggernaut alliance?

@Lando: Yes, when I say that Turkey's position deteriorated this turn, what I mean is that the board gives at least the outward appearance of A and R being friendly, with Italy disengaged. Turkey did nothing wrong tactically, and although in retrospect Smy - Arm might look tempting, might well have submitted the optimal moves. After all, this is more flexible, and Turkey must ultimately negotiate his way out of this. If it truly comes down to an extended 2 vs. 1 war in the opening, the 1 loses.

Whether this is bad for Italy is the question Italy must consider going forward. If A and R take apart Turkey while Italy gains nothing, that's clearly bad for Italy. Italy does benefit somewhat if Turkey disappears and neither A nor R builds fleets, but not nearly enough to stand by idly and watch.

But, there are two ways Italy could profit from the situation. The most direct is to claim a share of Turkey for himself, and the other is to go elsewhere (presumably, France) while all of his neighbors are distracted. Turkey has four centers, so a partition presumably would let A and R gain two each. If Italy can find, say, Mar, Spa, and Por in the interim, he would be in a strong position, especially if A and R both build armies. On the other hand, if Italy makes the choice to go west, he had better be right, because if Italy goes west and gains nothing, it's even worse than standing by idly, since Italy picks up an enemy in the bargain. This is especially true because Italy will then have a border with Austria but not Russia, which means it's difficult for A/R to gang up on him, so R would most naturally be inclined to ally in the mid-game against A, while A would be most naturally inclined to seek continued peace.

So, that's the important decision Italy has to make in the next couple of turns: is there more profit in being the third power in against Turkey (what does that partition look like, and is it beneficial?), in swinging West (profitable with a strong E/G, not profitable if you make France angry and have no help), or are both bad and does Italy instead need to focus on preventing the A/R from attacking Turkey? As you can see, the key to all of this is being able to project -- being able to project a possible partition of Turkey, being able to project whether you will have allies if you move west instead, and being able to project how much time the eastern situation will take to resolve, since that's how long you have to make your gains. So, Italy is going to be quite busy this turn, because the decision depends on getting a sense for whether the A/R alliance is truly as strong as it looks from the opening moves, getting a sense for how the East is likely to play out, and getting a sense for how comfortable he is that A and R can be worked with in the midgame if they are allowed to grow.

um nobody has yet answered jgur... what is a "better Juggernaut"?

Austria and Russia. The two powers combined have the same reach as the jug but better build locations

I disagree about the "better jug." While there are great advantages to A/R, they don't have the one thing that R/T has...no backside. You cannot discount how huge that is.

Its not a matter of opinion, it is simply s name. That's like disagreeing with I/R being Wintergreen. Someone asked clarification from my question so I provided. I do not believe your or my role is commentary Jim.

I imagine I'm one of the newer players in this game, so this kind of commentary is awesome. I'm interested to see where this game goes, and to see what kind of analysis comes up here.

@Lando - Never heard that name before. And I am not offering any commentary on the game. You are on here asking questions specific to the game.

I think CS covered that phase fairly well so I'm going to hold off till the autumn moves go through before I comment. As CS said, a lot of the normal opening advice we would give as professors isn't needed here due to the participants overall skill level.

Even in this game though, with the higher skill levels it is essential that the students talk about everything that occurs with their TA's. Send them press, work with them on advanced press strategies, etc. Your TA can help you take a lot out of this game. Use the opportunity to debate moves and tactics with them.

If at any point you cannot get in touch with your TA for more then a day you should pm myself or Tru Ninja immediately and we will pause the game till we can get you a replacement TA or find where your TA ran off too.

@Jimgov, Lando is right, you could both debate the advantages/disadvantages of Juggernauts for days, but lets save it for another thread and stick to questions only.

Hey everyone, I really hate to do this but if I don't do it now it's only going to be harder later on.
I really think that I overextended my time by taking on this game. Between this and a few other anonymous games I have going on I am inducing more stress on myself and eating more time than I want. It doesn't help that I've also just received a transfer letter at work that I now have to consider.
I feel like a real jackass for even bringing it up in a high-profile public game, but I don't think that I can give both this game and my real life the time they deserve and if I get forced into a decision, of course real life is going to win out.

I'd like to offer a couple of possible scenarios and see what the other players, profs, TAs would be willing to accept.

1) Cancel the game, find a new Russia, and restart. We're only one season in, so shouldn't be too much time wasted and as you've pointed out, it's usually much easier to find players than faculty. The downside is since the countries were hand-picked you may be making the same negotiations with the same people-- and they may be more or less willing to believe it this time around. Count it as a resign in my stats if you think you need to; I'll take the hit for not making this decision a week ago.
2) Find a new player to take over the existing Russia spot that I started. I know you would all be classy enough to negotiate with the new player as if they had been there the whole time. Again, feel free to count it as a resign in my stats.
3) Increase the phase length pretty significantly. I don't want to ask this because I don't want the game to drag, but it would certainly make it easier to fit things in. I also don't know how much of an increase I would require but probably not less than double.
4) Continue as is. I will do my best to keep up, but I'm worried I may operate at a diminished capacity because I will have to manage my time more strictly. Hopefully later seasons will be easier as the groundwork will already be laid.

Apologies for this uncomfortable choice. Believe me when I say that it is just as uncomfortable for me to have to ask you to make it.

Oh, or 5) Pause the game and continue when one of my other games finishes up (which may not be particularly soon, the most advanced is only in S03.) I don't want people to forget what's going on, though.

We have an alternate Player in Fortress Door. We can put you in CD and have him take over the country.

If that's ok with everyone it would be a weight off my shoulders.

I confirm I can take over his position (though I hate playing as Russia. At least with Austria I die quickly).

Perfect; the whole point was to play powers we were weak at so maybe you'll fit right in :)

But it is much more fun to play poorly as Italy/Turkey ;)