I think obi is implying that HE is the famous jewish philosopher.

lol

On this website certainly.

@orathaic

"You are entirely retarded if you can't see what the fuss is about. Most of us don't want a war. Or anyone to die because a single American preacher seems to be living in the dark ages. "

And you are entirely retarded if you believe the media on this...It is all propaganda by the american media. People in Germany or f.e. Egypt laugh about that dude, trust me nobody cares about that, there will be no "war"...

It is a shame that you act like a coward, so full of fear by fictional threads...

@ Miro - I think you're probably right actually. That said I still think people burning the Qur'an are still bigoted, ignorant assholes. And I still think that people getting offended by this are well within reason. A holy book means a lot to a religious person. And burning it is a pretty extreme form of desecration when it comes to something like that. I think it's pretty closed minded to say that it's just a bunch of religious idiots offending other religious idiots. Religion is an important factor in a lot of people's lives. You can't just say "Well they're all stupid!" and that's that. Obviously there's something more to it.

@Miro - remember the bruhaha from the Dutch papers posting of a comic involving their prophet? This *could* turn into something like that and that included death threats and did not help the situation any.

If the self serving news media had not picked up the story and made a big deal about it, this might have gone mostly unnoticed by all. Sometimes drawing attention to such acts only hightens their affect on others.

Miro -

How do you explain the following quote then:

"It is the duty of Muslims to react. When their holy book Quran gets burned in public, then there is nothing left. If this happens, I think the first and most important reaction will be that wherever Americans are seen, they will be killed. No matter where they will be in the world they will be killed."

That quote is by a man named Mohammad Mukhtar. He is a cleric and also a candidate for Afghan parliament in their upcoming elections on September 18th. If a man running for national office can just come out and say things like that, imagine what extremist groups will do with this event. Doubtless they will use it as a means to secure more funding and bring in more recruits, thus fueling their war on "infidels". It may not be a "war" in the traditional way, but undoubtedly, it will help to fuel the war they already have.

Now I'll grant that even without this event the extremist groups would continue their war on "infidels" but without a doubt, this will galvanize them and possibly bring people who were on the fence before clearly into their camp now.

"If the self serving news media had not picked up the story and made a big deal about it, this might have gone mostly unnoticed by all." - I do see your point, but I think in the current climate that's completely unrealistic. And maybe letting that kind of bigotry go unremarked, and unopposed, would be a bad thing?
I mean, we can all just shut our eyes tight and pretend that nothing in the world exists at all. Theoretically then there would be no conflict, but that's not really a solution, is it?

It's one thing to make aware of such foolishness, it's another to use it to gain ratings or political points for ones own end. Unfortunatly your correct about the political climate but that does not make it right.

As for the media:

i do agree in some sense with the sentiment 'Please ignore the troll, hopefully he will go away. '

The main news programme in ireland had this as it's leading story. It is not just 'american propaganda' it is international news. (though i wish it wasn't)

Not propaganda because all the American media wants to do is make money. Sure some also put a political spin on things - but that's just to make money from their target audience (or the executives have hired someone to put forward a political position in order to sell it to that audience) but the media doesn't care about propaganda except for it's own purposes.

So Miro can continue to say there is no school yard antics going on, and ignore the fact that the media (even if it lies and spreads propaganda) also has a massive influence world-wide on public opinion.

and it is less like propaganda in some countries - more like an informative public service - see: http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1080062 (damn, wrong news, i'll try and post the one from this evening later...)

Someone said it was a contradiction to call someone both a nazi and a socialist.
It's not. Nazism is national socialism. Nazis are left wing, everyone seems to forget that.
Not all socialist are nazis (obviously) but all nazis are socialists (unless they are a neo-nazi, thats not really a political movement anyway, just a hate subculture/group/gang)

http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1080017 - some here, if you cna't view it i will try to download and rehost it where i can be seen.

Sicarius, if the Nazis were so left wing, why were they allied with the right wing parties when they took power, and imprisoned the Social Democrats and the Communists? The members of the Nazi Party that were serious about the socialist part of it were executed in the Night of Long Knives, or terrorized into silence by the same. The Nazi government of Germany was extremely far right. Please be aware of history before you spout off.

Revisionist history is revisionist.

@drano

"@Miro - remember the bruhaha from the Dutch papers posting of a comic involving their prophet? This *could* turn into something like that and that included death threats and did not help the situation any. "

So what? Where was the war on this issue? Some maniacs make no war, more people die on "fog -mass-accident" on a german highway, then because of the danish cartoons.
The media lie about the effects of such things, the relations are not right. In Bagdad more people die in a month of "local terrorism" than international terrorism in western countries in year. What even is not comparable to the amount of people getting murderered in the Streets of a big american city...

The media are hysterical about Islam the threat of terrorism and most people in this thread, especially orathaic have gone hysterical too about that issue. I am still amused how you try to convince people about the threat of terrorism, while it is more likely to get killed by Malaria :-)

Miro -

Learn to read. That's not my quote.

The cartoonist was Danish not Dutch.

oh sry thought draugnar-drago is a multi account ;-)

It´s right Danish not Dutch.

drano*

Terry Jones is doing this to generate publicity, and gain more followers, for himself. The Muslim preachers who will react to it are doing the same. All should be ashamed of themselves.

@Jack Klein

There had been a discussion about "left" Nazis a while ago in another thread. I can tell you that the most supporters of that argument know nothing about german politics of that time, their brains just don´t get it that "National Socialism" was not a left movement because of the word "Socialism".... It is ridiculous but that´s the way how you seperate the smart from the dumb :-)

This Terry Jones f**kwit isn't even a real pastor in the way that most of us understand is he? If I got together 50 of my friends and claimed that they were a church, would that make me a pastor? As far as I can tell from a brief search, his Dove Reacharound Center is not affiliated to any recognised Christian denomination. How does he support himself financially? Contributions from his 50-strong "congregation"?

It seems clear to me that this whole affair is a publicity stunt by a money-grubbing hypocrite. He has a book cretinously entitled "Islam is of the Devil" and all the news coverage will serve to boost sales.

Yep, sorry about that. It was Danish. And you would think a Diplomacy player would remember wether it was Denmark or Holland.

Now the dude says he's calling it off because he thought that the Imam had decided to move the Mosque away from Ground Zero.

@Miro: i don't think i mentioned terrorism once.

I made an analogy to a schoolyard. That was all, you read into that to mean terrorism.

Also i think you'll find hysterical doesn't describe someone who also compared Terry Jones to an internet troll. Let be say it again. 'Please ignore the troll, hopefully he will go away. ' - orathaic (in reference to Terry Jones burning the Koran)

Thanks for playing.

Terry Jones had apparently had started a church in Cologne Germany than got kicked out because of his self centered ego.

@Thucy:

Nope, I said at the start the words "OY VEY!" were supposed to be in the title, but I screwed up...

So yeah, the famous Jew philosopher is he who said "oy vey" (so basically half the western world...) ;)