jman - I like that you are trying to respond to everyone, but you should clarify who you're talking to so that we can understand you answers - are you saying that you think its wrong that some states have laws agains attempted suicide? or was that about someone elses post. And "it's not the govenments place ..." Is that in answer to my question about the death penalty?

umm well if I don't specifically say who my post is to than it is to the one right in front of it. But I will try to be more clear in future.

Good point darwyn, let me think about it.

in response to darwyn. I have come to the conclusion that we cannot always value one ideal over another. In the case of abortion, I think we must value life. In the case of the revolutionary war, I think we were right in valuing freedom.

Essentially, everything must be taken in a case by case scenario.

This is what I think at the moment. It could change though as I think about it more.

@trim - there's nothing anti-American about making fun of southerners - we do it all the time.

In fact I was doing a little research on suicide laws and I found out that Alabama recently enacted laws against suicide AND attempted suicide. The punishment for suicide is life imprisonment, and the punishment for attempted suicide is the electric chair.

badap pshhhhh

Gotta salute you, jman. Keep that open mind as long as you possibly can.

Your not serious are you? If you are I would like to see where you got this information.

my last post was directed at trim.

And at March, yeah I have to because I am constantly coming up with new theories on how life works, what should be valued highest, and that sort of thing so until I find one that is very strong I try and stay open minded.

@jman: "my last post was directed at trim."

Are you sure? or were you asking about the Alabama law that I posted about? See how easy it is to get confused when people are so actively posting at the same time? Copying a fragment like I just did, also helps to clarify.

If you were asking about the Alabama laws, then they were just a joke. Alabama doesn't have the electric chair yet, clearly the punishment is hanging.

ok that was a joke too - the "badap pshhhh" shoulda been a giveaway. It's supposed to invoke the sound of a rimshot followed by a symbol. Clear sign that a joke just happened.

Much like crickets chirping is a clear sign that a BAD joke just happened.

oh...yeah I'm not very good at getting jokes. lol though I did laugh at it when you wrote it. And yes the post was directed at you. I make alot of mistakes.

Assisted suicide is another symptom of a culture which attaches no special value to human life.

In that case Jacob, so is war. All of it for any reason.

That's not true Darwyn. There are wars which are fought for just and unjust causes. There are wars that are fought on behalf of those that can't fight.

For example, WWII was fought to stop a maniac who didn't place any value on human life...

No, Jacob...

Assisted suicide has motivations rooted in mercy. War has motivations rooted in greed and power.

"WWII was fought to stop a maniac who didn't place any value on human life" Exactly.

You could make the parallel that Hitler was the cancer of this earth and to all of humankind and the only way to alleviate that cancer involved a process that destroying earth (or Europe).

In this light, assisted suicide is very similar. In terminally ill cases where a patient can feel nothing but pain, the only way to end his suffering is to let him go. How can you be against alleviating pain and suffering?

How can you be PRO suffering? I don't get this. Well, I suppose if you are PRO war, that explains it. But you cannot be PRO war and ANTI assisted suicide. Life is either precious enough to you to save it to the very end at all costs (pain and suffering be damned!), or it isn't which means you are epitomizing hypocrisy. There's a gray area through which your black and white goggles cannot see.

War that results in a million deaths is okay...but alleviating excruciating pain the only way it can be alleviated with dignity is somehow WRONG?!

I'm absolutely baffled. O.o

Have you ever had a pet euthanized? Or did you let him carry out it's last days in pain and suffering? Your pet had life! In most cases, euthanizing a pet is considered merciful. Why is it so different for humans?

Assisted suicide is not about lack of value for life. Rather it is about the quility of the remaining life, and the death of those who are in the end stages of an terminal condition. This not the same as some one who is suffering from depression or other psycological conditions. The condition of the patient, his choices, and of his family or others would be brought before board and evaluated. The board would have a range of experts in psycology, ethics, and law as well as medical. There job would make sure that patient is not in a state of depression, or under the influnce of someone, or drugs and his request is reasonable. Only after the case is studied and patient's request is found to be rational would his request be granted. This basicly how hospitals decide today if someone is to be taken off life support or maintance measures.

warsprite, you bring up a good point...

What's the difference between assisted suicide by your own will and a doctor "pulling the plug" on you by your family's will?

Is not the doctor engaging in a form of assisted suicide brought about by the decision of the family? As opposed to your decision?

If you are against assisted suicide, aren't you saying that your doctor or your family are better suited to determine your fate than YOU are? How is that possible?

What's the difference between someone in a coma with very little to no hope of recovery and someone with a terminal illness (with chronic pain) with very little to no hope of recovery?

If you are against assisted suicide, just WHO'S quality of life are we talking about here?

It's very dangerous, one has got to be very careful.

In such a disgustingly de-regulated state as the US, I would say no. Maybe in the UK it would be alright.

We all know which side of the bread Thucydides likes buttered...

I always knew, academically, that people like you existed. Its just a shock to me to find out for certain through personal experience that its true.

Why is it dangerous, Thucy? Because... someone might abuse it? Because... a mistake might be made and someone who wants to die and, while the Nanny State doesn't think they should, they manage to slip through the cracks and *gasp!* get the job done legally? Oh, that would be absolutely terrible, someone exercising their right of choice and choosing a dignified end.

I am for assisted suicide, but it must be and can be carefully monitored to prevent abuse. I guess you never heard of a "living will" this ia a legal document any adult can fill out and have noterized. In most states if not all, it is legaly binding. You spell out the conditions that "the plug would be pulled". The system I outlined is in place to assure that everything is per your request, and someone is not taking advantage of the situation. As for who is suited to decide when you cannot, and have left no documentation, who better than family. What is the difference between pulling the plug, and assisted suicide is a gray area granted, but there are legal, and medical condtions that have to be met. Beleave me no doctor or facility wants to get involved in wrongful death suit or worse accused of murder. Assisted suicide can be and should be monitored along the same lines. This would minimize the abuse by the depressed, misguided or the greedy. No system is perfect, but when you consider the suffering inflicted on the dying by modern medical science for prolonging death of the uncurable, I see no other choice.

This is where I stand:
As long as there is 0% chance of survival of the illness/disease they are suffering, and with consent from the person and his/her loved ones, then it's a no-brainer.

Diplomat I agree in with your basic ideal but 0%? But that is hard to prove at times. Lets just say very unlikely other wise you end up in debate of what ifs.

Here's a story.....

A man who conned an 83-year-old woman into paying £13,000 for roofing work worth £200 was spared jail.

Jonathan Williams, 31, of Beddington, south London, swindled Ethel Davies out of her life savings after cold calling at her home in Stanford Road, Norbury.

Williams offered to repair some tiles he noticed had been displaced and then charged her £360 for the work. He repeated the trick several times over a period of two years and amassed a total of £13,130.

Unfortunately Mrs Davies did not live to see Mr Williams sentanced, last month she became the first woman in Britain to take advantage of the new assisted suicide laws. Her son Peter Williams, 59, is reported as saying 'It's what Mum wanted, a dignified end.'

I'm for it, though I agree with Thucydides that it has to be heavily regulated. Corruption is a universal problem and if a system can be abused it will be, in many instances it would be for purely greedy reasons.

Think of it this way, a terminally ill rich old man is coerced into redoing his will so that only one of his children/grandchildren would inherit, instead of all of them. He is then coerced by the same relative into ending his own life through assisted suicide. There is now no way for the rest of his descendants to claim any part of his wealth, no matter how close they were to him before his death.

That is an obvious way that it could be abused, and that is the reason these things should be heavily regulated.

Geez what a serious bunch of responses,
here I thought someone would mention that assisted suicide is playing Austria and not writing to Russia or Italy in Spring 1901.