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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
Page 554 of 1419
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dep5greg (644 D)
05 Apr 10 UTC
Live Classic Gunboat Sunday Night Live JOIN
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=25891
0 replies
Open
Stukus (2126 D)
04 Apr 10 UTC
CD England Available
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=24190
3 replies
Open
dep5greg (644 D)
05 Apr 10 UTC
Live Classic game 20 min roughly please join
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=25886

please join, sunday night live
3 replies
Open
dep5greg (644 D)
05 Apr 10 UTC
Sunday Night Live Ancient Med
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=25887

4 more!!!
0 replies
Open
jimgov (219 D(B))
04 Apr 10 UTC
New gunboat game
WTA, anon, 35 D, 5 min phases. Starts in 30. gameID=25865
88 replies
Open
S.E. Peterson (100 D)
05 Apr 10 UTC
Live WTA Gunboat in 30 minutes
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=25884
8 replies
Open
5nk (0 DX)
05 Apr 10 UTC
Live WTA Gunboat JOIN
2 replies
Open
baumhaeuer (245 D)
05 Apr 10 UTC
What are your definitions of Opening, Mid-game, and End-game?
Seems most people (including me) see most game happening roughly in those three parts, but disagree as to what exactly constitutes them.
3 replies
Open
Cassiodorus (751 D)
04 Apr 10 UTC
iPad
Awesome, got my iPad today - needless to say how much it rocks!
Was just wondering, who else got one and might be even reading this on it right now?
22 replies
Open
Jredwood (2159 D)
04 Apr 10 UTC
Gunboat live 5min - 2 needed
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=25859
10 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
04 Apr 10 UTC
Is This The Right Room For An Argument?
(Well- is it?) ;)
8 replies
Open
General Maximus (1715 D)
05 Apr 10 UTC
Somali Pirates for Christ
Need two more players for Ancient Med map. 50 pts. 24 hr rounds. Points per supply center.

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=25829
0 replies
Open
Barn3tt (41969 D)
04 Apr 10 UTC
WTA Gunboat- w/password
http://webdiplomacy.net/index.php
Trying to put together a great game with some good players.
pm me for password
need 3
42 replies
Open
shadowlurker (108 D)
05 Apr 10 UTC
live normal game
1 reply
Open
icanhazconquest (100 D)
04 Apr 10 UTC
Quick game! Lets Play
Quick Game, anyone interested

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=25868
2 replies
Open
hellalt (113 D)
04 Apr 10 UTC
Live wta gunboat NOW
gameID=25863
gunboat, wta, not anon, 5min/turn, 35 D
20 mins to join
8 replies
Open
Adversary (199 D)
04 Apr 10 UTC
Need an Italy in good position, 6 SCs
gameID=25467
Join Empire Builder XXVI gunboat 18hr phase. Italy is in a good position, and has 6 supply centers. 2 hourse until next phase.
3 replies
Open
5nk (0 DX)
04 Apr 10 UTC
WTA Gunboat
gameID=25793

Need 5 more
79 replies
Open
Barn3tt (41969 D)
04 Apr 10 UTC
WTA Gunboat- starts soon
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=25836
19 replies
Open
flashman (2274 D(G))
04 Apr 10 UTC
Flashman's point...
If you like cheating, don't bother to read. This one is long, boring and uses some words with more than two syllables...
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
04 Apr 10 UTC
not too long...
WhiteSammy (100 D)
04 Apr 10 UTC
penises? <- am i close?
flashman (2274 D(G))
04 Apr 10 UTC
I certainly do have a beef about cheating, though I cannot condone public outing on the Forum - something that has happened in a thread with my name on it unfortunately.

There have been players who cheat ever since I joined. The big question is why? I think that it is difficult to answer that one. Some seem to get a kick out of cheating in life full stop - pretending to be someone else on the Internet for example, or starting multiple accounts so that you can support yourself or attack an enemy in a debate (unbelievably common when I was a Mod on a very big site - even some of the Mods resorted to this tactic when they were losing a pride-based argument)... I can almost see some players on this site sitting at their machines thinking: 'Ha ha, that'll teach him!'

I am thick-skinned enough to rise above this somewhat low-level of motivation and try to remove bad players the old fashioned way by just defeating them. However, I have had a pretty bad run of ruined games recently and the collective waste of time and effort has been huge. I am currently arguing with players in WTA games about the very annoying practice of one player helping another to win and justifying this with the, 'you wouldn't support me so I am going to make sure that you lose' logic.

As these games are World games, the amount of time and effort wasted is somewhat greater. Perhaps that is why I am finding the problem worse?

I have always taken the trouble to ensure that I play games to the finish, that I never leave. I have even stuck to that principle in tournaments where I have withdrawn after disputes on rule interpretations - I have played out any games started until a replacement could be found to step in. What I find now though is that with the World map, once a problem is identified, such as a lapdog partner, even after it has been discussed within the game, we have to go through weeks of blatant virtual team playing.

I can no longer justify to myself continuing to play in these games to keep my record of always finishing clean.

I am tempted to suggest starting a new site and experimenting - not with the code of the games, but the way in which cheating and game-spoiling play are dealt with. I do not have time to do this in practice so it has been a thought experiment only. I would rather spend my time thinking about this though than use it to enter moves in ruined games.

Right now, it seems to me that unless there is a provable case of multi-accounting, a game is unlikely to be stopped. A reliance perhaps on a mechanical approach to investigation rather than a judgement call.

For WTA, I would suggest, for example, a card system like that in football. A Mod could be asked to look at a game and award a Yellow card to a player who has, after warning, continued to help another player beyond what could be considered a normal alliance (I will give an example below). This would be a public award and the player's name tagged so that all within the game could see. If that player continues to spoil the game, he gets a second yellow card and is banned (I use the wider term 'spoil' as a way of encompassing cheating as well as other forms of wrongful play such as vendettas and bloody-mindedness). A proven case of multi accounting would get the straight red card and a ban.

I would make the penalties severe so that a ban is permanent. I would not use any form of point system though so as to remove a whole layer of temptation, and players would be identified by their in-play record and reliability. Players who finish games properly would get the higher ratings and could reasonably be considered more likely to play by the rules and the spirit of the game.

I would allow an appeals process but unless overturned, a ban would be a ban.

My feeling here is greatly influenced by my experiences as a Mod elsewhere and the way that people keep coming back after being found to be cheating/causing trouble. Rapid and severe penalties tend to reduce the amount of time someone is able to get any sort of satisfaction out of attempting to get round the rules, and having to start with a new account and address and e-mail etc if you do feel the need to demonstrate your low level of intelligence are greatly added to if your avatar has the lowest level of reliability against it: you would have great difficulty getting into serious games with respected players.

Games stopped for cheating would not be counted in normal stats for win/loss/survive etc...

Of course, this requires Mods who have the time to look. This itself could be dealt with by inviting a greater number of Mods from among the more experienced players: the number needed rising as the number of members increases.

Very clear examples of unacceptable bad play as opposed to merely poor play would be given within the rules and these rules would have to be both read and a multiple choice test passed before a member is admitted (I set exams so I have to put this one in : ) ).

And so on...

I mentioned above that I would give an example of unacceptable play (WTA).

Two players A and B in a game (World Map) are next to each other at the start. Both expand but away from each other. A builds the fleets and armies necessary for a major campaign and keeps light forces along his common border; B builds only armies and moves them all to the far extremes of his territories leaving nothing, not a single unit, on his common border. B's armies are now a great wall inside which is a bubble of controlled space. Because his wall is comprised entirely of armies, he has no way to expand any further when he reaches coastlines and thus has given himself no chance to play any meaningful role in an attempt to win. A though has gained from the completely safe common border and can, at will, roll his own forces across to take out numerous SCs at any time he wants. Even if B wanted to turn round, he would need two to three full years to get where he needs to be, in which time he would have lost most of his SCs - and certainly his home SCs. His lack of fleets would also prevent convoys and off-shore supports. Basically, he hasn't got a hope in Hell of recovering his position. It should also be noted that because of gains, this common border could easily be as long as eight to ten spaces.

We must assume that other players would have questioned B's play right from the outset so it is not a matter of sudden enlightenment.

When the situation is called out as being beyond acceptable - perhaps on the Global Tag, B simply stops playing - not a word to any other player, he just vanishes and A carries on as if there was never anything wrong.

I would certainly stop the game and give both A and B the yellow card here, allowing A to appeal and explain. He still has the full right to play on in other games but would have been warned to make sure that if a similar 'lucky' neighbour turns up he be more open to a consideration of fair play.

Remember, he now carries a yellow card against his name.

How long that card lasts is a point for debate, but it could be something like three finished games... It will be hard for this player to get games and complete the sentence.


Anyway, as I said above, it is a thought experiment.
flashman (2274 D(G))
04 Apr 10 UTC
How much time did you guys have to get the jokes in? I am getting far to slow for this...
WhiteSammy (100 D)
04 Apr 10 UTC
there is never not enough time for a joke
flashman (2274 D(G))
04 Apr 10 UTC
I happen to know a very good penis joke, but it needs a French accent to make it work...
pfranklin51 (140 D)
04 Apr 10 UTC
Flashman: I think the entire concept is quite ingenious. One thing I would like to suggest though is that a system is developed for the yellow cards so that the amount of time a card lasts increases if the player receives another card after paying off his initial sentence. (ie. first offense is 2-3 completed games, second sentence 4-5 completed games, etc.)
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
04 Apr 10 UTC
Let me say a couple things:

1) Thank you for putting spaces in between paragraphs!

2) I think there are 3 types of cheaters:
a-Those who don't know they are cheating
b-Those who don't realize how much their cheating affects others
c-Those who don't care

3) I would propose the following for a first line of defense:
A large "I agree" page when people first sign up. It could be very simply and say:
a-Multiaccounting is against the rules and ruins games for others. If you have more than one account you'll be banned.
b-Prearranged alliances are against the rules; plesae enter every game with a blank slate
c-Concerns about multiaccounting should be sent to webdipmod@...

By having a simply page like this, I think we can eliminate a lot of 2a and 2b cheaters. We may also eliminate 2c cheaters because they know mods are serious about cheating enforcement.

4) We need more mods. There is no other way to go through multi accusations in a timely fashion

5) I'd suggest that Anon games (which seem to be a particular problem) have a point or game number limit before you're allowed to join them.
flashman (2274 D(G))
04 Apr 10 UTC
Thanks, both of the above.

And, in particular (note the space), I did suggest a multiple-choice style test on the rules so that no-one can claim ignorance of the rules. This would be a very clear way to justify the use of cards and bans because players have formally shown that they understand the rules, not only given a lazy acceptance without reading them.

It would be an interesting exercise to see which examples we would come up with for questions to not only test direct knowledge of rules but also how those rules would be interpreted...
coolseed (0 DX)
04 Apr 10 UTC
i agree, flash
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
04 Apr 10 UTC
@flash

I agree a little test could be useful. If nothing else, it will make it too annoying for people to create multiple accounts just for fun.
Aurens (252 D)
04 Apr 10 UTC
As a newbie, I'd be interested in your expectations of a player in a hopeless situation, whether WTA or PPSC. You write that such a player should not devote time to taking down an enemy on the grounds that "you wouldn't support me so I am going to make sure that you lose." And obviously going CD is bad form. But what should such a player do as the choices dwindle? What exactly does it mean to finish clean?
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
04 Apr 10 UTC
First off, unless there is a situation irl that prevents you from entering moves, you should never go CD.

In general, you should play to win. If you can't do that, play to draw. If you can't do that, play to survive. If you can't do that, play to effect the outcome game.

pfranklin51 (140 D)
04 Apr 10 UTC
@Aurens: By stating that a player should not act in such a manner, I'm pretty sure flash is referring to players that give up a legitimate chance to force a draw by helping to create a stalemate line, or even a chance to win in order to screw over one of his opponents that wouldn't help him out at some point in time (it's basically throwing a temper tantrum in game through your moves Instead of through words)
flashman (2274 D(G))
04 Apr 10 UTC
I would not have any PPSC games as these are based on points and are a variant of the pure game. For WTA, you win or you do not win, that is the main division.
flashman (2274 D(G))
04 Apr 10 UTC
Oh, and if I have got this correct, I do believe that Mr coolseed from above has just been banned from one of my World Games... Interesting. Not even one the players I suspected in that game although he did join late and that kind of smells too.

Is this a sign of progress?
fetteper (1448 D)
04 Apr 10 UTC
@ flashman. you might want to include some more info in your description above. perhaps that if B attacked A YOU would be the one that took over most of B´s land and B would be killed. Haven´t you cried enough about that game yet? most other players in that game can see what has happend. you are the only one complaining, not counting the one that just got banned of course.
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
04 Apr 10 UTC
He indeed has been I've been running through the backlog these past few days.
flashman (2274 D(G))
04 Apr 10 UTC
I was not the one who reported Brazil in that game fetteper... It would appear that someone else took exception to Brazil's play while I was too busy looking at a different region, someone who's complaint was upheld.

It is one of two current World games where I am experiencing oddish play, hence my frustration over wasted time. I wasted a lot of time trying to talk with Brazil, I should have guessed. Do you really think we should play on?
flashman (2274 D(G))
04 Apr 10 UTC
Er, who's? Schoolboy error... Sorry.
jimgov (219 D(B))
04 Apr 10 UTC
While I applaud the effort, you chose a really bad example. In that example, you are assuming player B is cheating. I think he is just new or doesn't know any better. Either way, that is NOT cheating. You cannot tell people how to play the game. Is player B going to win? No. Is player A going to do better because of player B's ill conceived army moves? Yes. But...that is not cheating. Let the mods deal with real cheating and just take all of the crappy play as just that...crappy play.
flashman (2274 D(G))
04 Apr 10 UTC
It was an example of unacceptable play because one player is deliberately giving the game to another. It is not merely crappy play. Please note that in the example, the game is WTA and both A & B have been questioned by other players about what is happening. I can see no justification whatsoever for a player to do what B is doing.described as doing.
jimgov (219 D(B))
04 Apr 10 UTC
Just because you don't see it, it doesn't make it cheating. You are allowed to do anything you want with your units. And no one has the right to call you a cheater just because he doesn't like it. And since this is obviously a game that is underway, this should NOT be discussed in such detail on the forum. Tell the mods and let them take care of it.
sicinat (129 D)
04 Apr 10 UTC
I wouldn't use a "You didn't support me..." type argument but if, for example, I am playing as Turkey and I form an alliance with Austria against Russia, and Austria immediately stabs me in his own alliance with Russia, leaving me in a position where I'm certain I'll leave the game with nothing, I would have no qualms about leaving my supply centres open for Russia or even a sneaky Italian fleet, while keeping up the pressure on Austria, in order to "punish" him - not for attacking me but for lying. I've even supported enemies into my own supply centres in order to achieve this on a couple of occasions.

Would you consider that cheating?
Chrispminis (916 D)
04 Apr 10 UTC
No, but I would consider it lousy play. =P

Everyone ought to know my opinion on lapdogs, and is great reason why I support WTA play over PPSC play. However, that does not make lapdogs "unacceptable" in the sense that they ought to be punished in the metagame. Have you ever complained in the global chat when through your own hard work you obtain the services of a lapdog? Some people very much enjoy working toward mutual benefit and are extremely loyal, and yes it sucks when they're giving the game to some other chump, but I can say that I have won some games as a result of winning the support of such players.

Also, the point system here, while it may represent some temptation to cheat, it also represents a real sense of achievement and progress for the legitimate majority of players. There has been a huge upsurge in players registered and active since the inception of the point system, and it is responsible for a lot of the young blood and new talent here. I mean, have you looked at the scoring systems used on other sites? worldleaders looks incredible except it's got an absolutely retarded scoring system. Then there's Ghost-Rating for the rest of us. =)

Two things I would support:
1. Strike off games found to have multiaccounters from players' records.
2. Train more mods.

The amount of anti-multiaccounting work that can be done by a dedicated mod is incredible. There was a time when figle, TGM, and I were extremely active and I'd like to say we probably banned every instance of active multiaccounting at the time.

Stukus (2126 D)
04 Apr 10 UTC
The problem with striking games off the records is that they may not have cheated in that particular game, and it's not fair to the winner if they won a fair game that happened to contain someone who cheated in other games. Games that contained actual cheating should definitely be cancelled, though.
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
04 Apr 10 UTC
You'd have to have two accounts in it, and even then might review the situation.


27 replies
Live Games
Hey, can we get some more people to play live games? I'd like to finish another one before the day is over...

One that starts soon is "For anyone-2"
0 replies
Open
ormi (100 D)
04 Apr 10 UTC
anyone to play, normal speed game?
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=25818
1 reply
Open
LockeLamora (100 D)
04 Apr 10 UTC
Ancient med Live!
gameID=25850
15 D, all messages, PPSC. 30 Minutes to join!
10 replies
Open
Sarkozi (100 D)
04 Apr 10 UTC
Do People Just Not Play Live Games On Sundays?
Is there ever enough people online on sundays to play live games?
0 replies
Open
kLepTo (639 D)
04 Apr 10 UTC
Cheating?
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=25039

France and England. Is that blatant cheating or what?
36 replies
Open
nola2172 (316 D)
04 Apr 10 UTC
Need Ghana for World Variant
Ghana has recently left a world variant map and is now open to play. Game link below:
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=21458
Since this is anonymous, please do not post here if you join. I will post again after the position has been filled.
4 replies
Open
KaiserWilly (664 D)
04 Apr 10 UTC
New World Style Diplomacy
gameID=25702

Few spots left, Join Fast!
2 replies
Open
hellalt (113 D)
04 Apr 10 UTC
100 games finished
hooray
after 1 year and half a month
A year filled with glory
1 reply
Open
Lando Calrissian (100 D(S))
04 Apr 10 UTC
join live game
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=25828
2 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
30 Mar 10 UTC
RIP Bill Gates
Billionaire, philanthropist.
19 replies
Open
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