This would require a lot of trust though... And there is a chance that Austria doesnt get Greece. But I could see it work.

Austria can't build, dislodge italy, and cover all the retreats by himself, so any smart Italy, instead of handicapping himself by destroying his northern defence, would just take advantage of the Austrian.

Plus, a second Italian fleet build in 01 is pretty useless.

If Austria can ally with Russia than that could work

Austria can move A-Vie>Bud, A-Bud>Ser, and F-Tri>Alb. Then move A-Ser S A-Bud>Tri, A-Bud>Tri, F-Alb>Gre. This doesn't insure Gre for Austria, but it shows that it is possible.

@Centurian
In a Italian-Austrian alliance, having 3 fleets so quickly is incredibly useful. It makes attacking France a much more viable option and could help against turkey as well. Its a great opening for an Austrian stab, but if the two work together it could be big gains for the both of them.

i also disagree with centurian, i've seen it work well. obviously it is a matter of trust, but so are most austrian/italian openings that involve an alliance between the two rather than acrimony.

Done it in two games recently - one in the Masters... I was Austria, Italy got a great start and then... stabbed me.

Actually, it was dj who stabbed me... ; )

the best Leponto opening i have ever seen is
1901
A Ven- Tri
A Rom- Apu
F Nap- Ion

A Vie- bud
A bud-Rum
F TRI - Alb

Fall 1901
A Tri- Ser
A Apu -Tun
F Ion C Apu- Tun

A Vie S Hold Rum
A Rum Hold
F Alb-Greece

well, ill be damned. I figured there was no way there'd be a current game with the opening.

@Flashman, I ended up having to draw that game as England. I got paranoid and stabbed too early. After that nobody was in good standing with anyone else. Then I lost Munich. They offered a draw and I took it. I might could have made gains off of France, but i would have surely been losing at the same rate in the east. You should look at the game and see what you think. >_< ... and be gentle.

@denis, the site I read about the 3-fleet opening talked about that opening too. It was called a "key lepanto"... i dont think it specified austria taking rum though, but it is a nice touch. you have a link to the game where that happened?

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=13809&viewArchive=Maps
here you go but know they are sort of stuck

there was a alternate Key Lepanto I tried this last month... it actually worked rather well (I was italy)

Austria:
Bud to Ser to Gre
Tri to Alb to Ion
Vie (can move to bud or bounce gal)

Italy:
Ven to Tri to Ser
Rom to Ven to Apu (to not SEEM like a key lepanto)
Nap to Ion to Aeg (or EMS)

in spring 1902, ion/aeg convoy the army to smy... or aeg supports austrian ion to ems... depending on the turkish sitution

The problem is, every time I trust Italy (as Austria) I invariably get someone who just decides to stab me. Italy never seems to understand that, if s/he and Austria fight, the juggernaut wins.

"The problem is, every time I trust Italy (as Austria) I invariably get someone who just decides to stab me. Italy never seems to understand that, if s/he and Austria fight, the juggernaut wins."

Sadly Draugnar, though it is indeed a risk, an experienced Italian Diplomat knows that it doesn't *always* happen like that, and if Italy mananges to keep either Turkey or Russia stronger than the other, then the Juggernaught often falls apart with the death of Austria.

That said, never stop using it when you are Austria. It is a convenient and convincing myth. :)

3 recent games as Austria all have resulted in both Italy and Austria dead or dying. In one, I was the aggressor and should have worked with Italy. In the other two, Italy talked the talk of Lepanto and screwed me. One of those has Italy approaching a win, so he was smarter than the average diplomat. The other one, I did what I could to keep R and T balanced and Italy is damn near gone.

P.S. I hate playing Austria and I have gotten stuck with it 3 out of my last 6 games.

Don't Germanys Anschluss on this site? I've won twice because of it, and Austria finished very well in both those games too (once was an 18-16 split that was going to be 17-17 until Austria blew the final year's orders). That's one way to get Austria to survive AND to make sure Italy keeps in line - Central Triples do good things!

i've played key lepanto and three fleets, they can work out well, but those openings do require trust. big risk, big reward - italy and austria often can end up doing pretty well. i've tried a new opening as germany recently, and it went pretty well, though i then saw it go not too well in another game.

@flashman - sorry about that. it's just... well... we can talk about it after the game. it's not you, it's me =P

The 3 fleets isn't nearly as strong as the 4 (or 5) army opening for aus. Aus sends tri-ven, italy pops the unit, aus converts the unit to an army...

Exactly djbent, it invites the stab, and it doesn't have the concentrated power of the key lepanto, and it involves three of the alliances six units turning on eachother rather than the enemy. Completely ridiculous move.

sometimes the ridiculous is what helps win the game, Centurian. ;D

One of the interesting things about the Three Fleets is the way that it looks like a possible Key Lepanto and can thus get Turkey to make wrong moves as well as leave France feeling comfortable. These factors should not be overlooked.

yes, flashman is right. and also it means austria-hungary still gets to take serbia (and greece if she's plays it right) and italy gets into tunis, and piedmont if he's done the right negotiating. so i don't think it's a waste of those three units by any stretch, Centurian.

Fine, next time you are Austria and I am Italy I will gladly give it a try djbent.

lol sounds good Centurian ;D

i love how i know what games you all are talking about... i feel like i have some insider knowledge.

djbent, I cant wait to try that german opening.

as for the 3-fleet... lets see how it workes out in practice... in theory, sounds pretty good.

Hear that, djbent? Babak can't wait to try your opening!

nah, he said he wants to try the german opening. i think akroma's german, right? and she's always anxious to show off her openings...

boi-oi-oi-oi-oinnngg!

sheesh - some people just live in the gutter =P

I don't necessarily live there, but my mind does tend to spend a lot of time there.

I live in a house, but love to hang out in the gutter.

@Jamiet99uk & djbent: LMAO (I love that gutter talk!)

@djbent 'it's not you, it's me': I love that! I'll have to use that next time I stab someone!

@Babak & djbent: I think I'm familiar with that game you're talking about also... (working out well for 1 of you at least.)