okay just for you Putin russian was my first language and i will read this Animal Riot but can say it can't be plagiarizm because Orwells animal farm which doubt you read is based on Totalitarianism and Stalinist Russia now Animal roit was written in 1880, 42 years before stalin took power.

Was Animal Riot well known? Animal Farm could have been a parody of it, in addition to everything else it is.

I remember reading a book by Vladamir Nabakov once. In the introduction he had a bit of a rant about how much he hate Orwell, whom he described as cliched, and echoed some of putin's views about not being original.
I don't know what to make of it. I have always enjoyed Orwell.

okay animal farm did not plagiarize animal roit nosw it may have borrowed a concept Animals can take over a farm but it did not follwo the same storyline. The killings the windmill or the Dictitorial leader. and in animal farm the animals speak english while in Animal riot they speak a type of animal speak that only the hearder can understand and Omelko is not the creul farmer that jones was

bump

If these topics don't matter then why are you commenting, jman? And history does have much to do with the present. I think it does matter if you spit on the sacrifice of over 20 million soldiers who heroically fought to stop Nazi barbarism. I think it matters that Hitler committed the most unspeakable evil the world has ever seen, and two whole races of people were almost entirely annihilated. I wonder how many more millions would have died if Hitler had won?

Kostomarov's story was written in 1880 as a parody of the revolutionaries of the time. It was a defense of Tsarism and serfdom against the growing revolutionary spirit in Russia (much like Dostoyevsky's "The Possessed"). Likewise Orwell's mockery of revolutionaries is a defense of capitalism (even though the man was supposedly a "socialist").The animals, after all, are "worse" than the ruling class.

It matters to me that Orwell is considered a remotely good writer, because he has been used as an ideological weapon against the opponents of the status quo since he came out with "his" unoriginal 1984 (taken from We, another Russian novel) and Animal Farm.

He is famous for his essays too - so his reputation does not rest solely on those two novels.

Who wrote "We" and in what year?

The idea that Kostomarov's story was printed in obscurity doesn't wash, since it was printed in the most popular Russian magazine at the time (1917) - Niva.

We was written in 1921 by Yevgeny Zamyatin. Furthermore, Orwell wrote a review of We and admitted he used it as the model for 1984.

I believe Iron Heel by Jack London was also an influence. But hey, "Hamlet" by William Shakespeare wasn't entirely original either. Or do you think he is over-rated too?

Ah yes... "We", where everyone lives in glass houses. I have heard about that book, and have been wondering about it since this discussion started.
But all this means is that Orwell did not invent the genre. There were other dystopian novels before his, and before Zamyatin (The Iron Heel by Jack London).

Okay Orwell wrote animal farm in mockery of stalins totalitarian killings and in warning that a country like this is dangerous and not in mockery of socialism

Orwell admitting he used We as a model doesn't mean he plagiarized it at all. That's like saying Tolkien plagiarized Beowulf because he used some similar themes and settings in Lord of the Rings.

If I write an existentialist novel am I ripping off Sartre?

I'd say Iron Heel and 1984/We are on opposite poles, since Iron Heel is a critique of capitalist America, not socialism. It's not the point that they are from the same genre, but that they have similar characters, plot, and conclusion. The following article discusses the strong similarities: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2009/jun/08/george-orwell-1984-zamyatin-we

Orwell admitting he used it as a model isn't plagiarism, but it's recognition that it was not original in the least. He went much further than simply doing a work of the same genre. Orwell " borrowed much of his plot, the outlines of three of his central figures, and the progress of the book's dramatic arc..." from We. The hilarious part is Orwell accused Huxley of stealing from We. That tells you the type of hypocrite Eric Blair was.

So in the end Orwell didn't exist and this whole conversion debate discusion or whatever was a waste of time

oh and a good point out that George Orwell was his pen name

Nobody's making you read or post.

what? I started this thread and i think your little idea the russians did it first is just remnants of communist propaganda you probably think the printing press and flight were russian discoveries to

Putin I'll give you plagiarism Volkov rewrote Wizard of Oz slapped Adventure to the Emerald City on the front and Named Dorothy Elle

Why do you dislike Orwell so much, putin? I don't really understand. Originality aside, do you not agree that he made very good points about the folly of communist revolution in Animal Farm and the folly of over-powerful government in 1984?

probably a communist diehard who hasn't gotten past 1991

i just went to russia the whoe country is stuck in the 80's mullets ratails everywhere and i won't go into music wow Madona and any kind of techno or classic rock

Haven't I already explained at great lengths why I dislike Orwell? He snitched on his friends to the British secret police (of course he would criticize people selling out friends to the KGB, I'm sure...), he hated blacks, Jews, women, and gays, and he was oblivious to the dangers of fascism while focusing his ire on the country that destroyed fascism. He has been used to criticize the left since the 1940s, and his books are a cynical defense of the status quo. Tack on the fact that he copied his two most famous works' plot, characters, etc from others and the fact that he is unjustly considered a "saint" by much of the English speaking world. He also single handedly did more to sully the reputation of the heroic International Brigades who were fighting fascism against Franco's Falangist thugs in Spain.

People also pretend that this guy was remotely 'political' when he wasn't part of any movement whatsoever. He didn't give a damn about the struggles of labor, the unemployed, etc, and the greed of capital. Yet he pretended he was socialist, for maximum effect against the left.

He was a terrible writer, a government informant, a bigot, a slanderer, and a useful idiot for British intelligence and conservatives everywhere.

Yes, former Soviet (anti-communist) ex-pats tend to hate their home country. This shouldn't come as a surprise. It is likely that most ex-pats were/are from the well-to-do classes.

look i am not against russia my family comes from russia both my grandfathers were colonels in the red army and i am active in russian culture abroad but i find that Russians tend to think they are the best at everything and that they did everything first.

Ok... Putin the fact that you are even talking about the well-to-do classes makes me wonder what kind of books you read/tv you watch. The class stratification thing is only an issue if you make it one. It's just one more thing that divides us in already over-diverse world. Dredging up old hate is no way forward.

Tell that to the thousands of pensioners and workers who lost their savings and homes due to the greed of speculators and bankers. And who is bailed out? The banks, not ordinary people. If someone on unemployment insurance "exploits" the system it's a "scandal", if big business does it to the tune of 700 billion dollars it's not "welfare", it's "saving the economy".

You can pretend class warfare isn't going on on a daily basis and wish for a world where there are no class antagonisms and where the rich and everybody else are held to the same standards, but it isn't the real world.

No, flawed ideologies are the real world.