Mafia 46 - Ace Attorney - GAME THREAD

[ChippeRock]

Chippe is blatantly lying.

He is deceiving the town. He has continuously deceived, lied (think back to d1), acted aggressively, contributed nothing.

Chippe has no scum reads beyond a "read" on Fox he largely stole from TrPrado (who he scum read before the flip).

Can ONE person tell me why he's town? Is it "he's too dumb to be scum"? Is it "he reacts to everything"? I can't figure it out. Because he's just made shit up this whole game and has acted like an asshole to everyone.

You and your safe ass game can go stick it. If they want to ISO me, they need to take a good damn hard look at you, because you're intentionally playing a fucking safe game. You've provided no detailed reads, all of your votes have no super detailed explanation behind them, and you're posting at a very high volume - suggesting you could make insightful reads on people if you tried.

[Durga]

Squigs ---- I'm quitting.

[Durga]

Chippe has no scum reads. His only scum reads are people who scum read him.

This is the most anti-town behaviour I have ever encountered in a game.

[ChippeRock]

People who are saying the judge is endangered if Balki claims are very sus imo. The judge would be perfectly fine because mafia have to rb Balki and kill rdr so we're not endangering the judge.

If Mafia takes their chances and kills Judge, our scum lynch attempt tomorrow is effectively crippled. You're just a damn idiot for not realizing how important the judge is for town.

Chippe, reporter is more effective than judge. Judge gives us 0 information, just limits our lynch pool. He still has to choose effectively, and town still has to choose correctly.
Reporter gives us real, actual information to inform our decision.

Information > Limited lynch pool (especially if judge is an idiot)

Reporter has a 1/3 chance of correctly selecting a Mafia w/ PR - assuming he doesn't get roleblocked or NKed (the former would probably happen if Balki is scum). There aren't stupidly great odds of us getting useful information, and it's not worth sacrificing the judge for that useless information.

[Squigs44]

People who are saying the judge is endangered if Balki claims are very sus imo. The judge would be perfectly fine because mafia have to rb Balki and kill rdr so we're not endangering the judge.

While I agree with you that Judge won't be NK'd tonight if he claims, I think that he should remain hidden unless in danger for the sole reason of having that claim / clear still available closer to the end of the game. I would rather have a clear later than today. Again if Judge is on the chopping block obviously claim an hour or so before EoD.

This is crazy. We get so much more benefit from forcing Balki to tell us who he thinks PR is. Especially if we're leaning towards the idea that he's scum. NOT ONLY THAT, but the person he scanned could actually be scum!!!

Oh I read that wrong and was trying to respond to your point about judge claiming, not Balki, wherever you made that post. My bad.
I agree Balki should claim.

[ChippeRock]

Chippe has no scum reads. His only scum reads are people who scum read him.

This is the most anti-town behaviour I have ever encountered in a game.

Foxcastle has not scum read me. Before I scum read ND, he had not scum read me.

Stop slandering my name. You're no better, you have made a couple of OMGUS votes on me BTW - or at least "faked" retaliatory votes that you supposedly made in fits of anger.

[Durga]

Sorry judge should not claim, Balki needs to tell us who the player is.

[ChippeRock]

This sudden flare up of anger at me and OMGUS calling me scum simply because I disagree with you just proves you're just acting Durga. Hopefully the rest of town wakes up to that.

[Squigs44]

Squigs ---- I'm quitting.

Just take a break from the game, ignore Chippe and whoever else is being stupid, whatever you have to do. Even if you stopped reading the game and sheeped your townreads you would still probably be playing better than certain players in this game.

[ND]

In my mind this comes down to evidence vs. reads.

Do we have evidence anyone is not town. Yes. We know that Balki is scum or BA. He claims to be BA which means we can't risk lynching him due to the position we are in.

Do we have anything else? We have TrPrado's actions D2. He should have gotten a scan result start of D2. Thus, somewhere in D2 there should be a clue as to what his scan is. Is there evidence of this result? Clear cut? No. All I can do is make my own interpretation on his actions. I believe he is competent enough to leave something there.

Do we have anything else? We have Rd who has said that Fox did nothing N1. This means that if Fox is scum he didn't make an action N1.

We have player's reads on other players. Those are only as good as the individual player and the post history.

We are losing bad and I think we need to try to mine TrPrado and figure that out given that we are on the verge of losing. So, I am going to ##UNVOTE

I still like Fox as a lynch but then again it's my interpretation, we are in a really bad spot, and I want to look over everything again as I believe we should all do. It's the start of the phase there is time to look everything over. There is no rush to be hasty.

[Durga]

We know if Fox is scum he is not: assassin, roleblock, and probably framer/lawyer (but we can't be sure about these two)

At the point where we know at best he can't be 4/6 roles, and at worst 2/6 it makes no sense to lynch him. Sure, he might be scum. But his likelihood has shot down and therefore it makes him a worse lynch.

[Squigs44]

If Mafia takes their chances and kills Judge, our scum lynch attempt tomorrow is effectively crippled. You're just a damn idiot for not realizing how important the judge is for town.

Chippe, reporter is more effective than judge. Judge gives us 0 information, just limits our lynch pool. He still has to choose effectively, and town still has to choose correctly.
Reporter gives us real, actual information to inform our decision.

Information > Limited lynch pool (especially if judge is an idiot)

Reporter has a 1/3 chance of correctly selecting a Mafia w/ PR - assuming he doesn't get roleblocked or NKed (the former would probably happen if Balki is scum). There aren't stupidly great odds of us getting useful information, and it's not worth sacrificing the judge for that useless information.

Well actually the odds are worse than 1/3 since he only sees home / not home and after cop is dead framer and lawyer won't do anything. However, his scan isn't random, so we shouldn't go off of those odds anyway.
Even if he gets a scan that says home or he gets RB'd or whatever, we can still lynch mafia without the judge doing a showdown. I think you are overestimating the judge Chippe.

Whether I convince you of this point or not doesn't matter, its up to Balki to claim.

[ChippeRock]

We know if Fox is scum he is not: assassin, roleblock, and probably framer/lawyer (but we can't be sure about these two)

At the point where we know at best he can't be 4/6 roles, and at worst 2/6 it makes no sense to lynch him. Sure, he might be scum. But his likelihood has shot down and therefore it makes him a worse lynch.

How do we "know" he's not any of those roles? Why do you always make statements and never back them up!

[Squigs44]

In my mind this comes down to evidence vs. reads.

Do we have evidence anyone is not town. Yes. We know that Balki is scum or BA. He claims to be BA which means we can't risk lynching him due to the position we are in.

Do we have anything else? We have TrPrado's actions D2. He should have gotten a scan result start of D2. Thus, somewhere in D2 there should be a clue as to what his scan is. Is there evidence of this result? Clear cut? No. All I can do is make my own interpretation on his actions. I believe he is competent enough to leave something there.

Do we have anything else? We have Rd who has said that Fox did nothing N1. This means that if Fox is scum he didn't make an action N1.

We have player's reads on other players. Those are only as good as the individual player and the post history.

We are losing bad and I think we need to try to mine TrPrado and figure that out given that we are on the verge of losing. So, I am going to ##UNVOTE

I still like Fox as a lynch but then again it's my interpretation, we are in a really bad spot, and I want to look over everything again as I believe we should all do. It's the start of the phase there is time to look everything over. There is no rush to be hasty.

If we take away the TrPrado scan, do you still scumread Fox?

[Durga]

omg pls answer chippe squigs, i can't

[ChippeRock]

Chippe, reporter is more effective than judge. Judge gives us 0 information, just limits our lynch pool. He still has to choose effectively, and town still has to choose correctly.
Reporter gives us real, actual information to inform our decision.

Information > Limited lynch pool (especially if judge is an idiot)

Reporter has a 1/3 chance of correctly selecting a Mafia w/ PR - assuming he doesn't get roleblocked or NKed (the former would probably happen if Balki is scum). There aren't stupidly great odds of us getting useful information, and it's not worth sacrificing the judge for that useless information.

Well actually the odds are worse than 1/3 since he only sees home / not home and after cop is dead framer and lawyer won't do anything. However, his scan isn't random, so we shouldn't go off of those odds anyway.
Even if he gets a scan that says home or he gets RB'd or whatever, we can still lynch mafia without the judge doing a showdown. I think you are overestimating the judge Chippe.

Whether I convince you of this point or not doesn't matter, its up to Balki to claim.

I adjusted the Reporters odds to account for him being better at finding scum than randomness...

[Squigs44]

We know if Fox is scum he is not: assassin, roleblock, and probably framer/lawyer (but we can't be sure about these two)

At the point where we know at best he can't be 4/6 roles, and at worst 2/6 it makes no sense to lynch him. Sure, he might be scum. But his likelihood has shot down and therefore it makes him a worse lynch.

How do we "know" he's not any of those roles? Why do you always make statements and never back them up!

Because Rdr scanned Fox N1 and got the result of "home"

[Squigs44]

omg pls answer chippe squigs, i can't

Just ignore him for the rest of the day, I'll try to do all the fact-checking (although I doubt I will be successful).

[ND]

In my mind this comes down to evidence vs. reads.

Do we have evidence anyone is not town. Yes. We know that Balki is scum or BA. He claims to be BA which means we can't risk lynching him due to the position we are in.

Do we have anything else? We have TrPrado's actions D2. He should have gotten a scan result start of D2. Thus, somewhere in D2 there should be a clue as to what his scan is. Is there evidence of this result? Clear cut? No. All I can do is make my own interpretation on his actions. I believe he is competent enough to leave something there.

Do we have anything else? We have Rd who has said that Fox did nothing N1. This means that if Fox is scum he didn't make an action N1.

We have player's reads on other players. Those are only as good as the individual player and the post history.

We are losing bad and I think we need to try to mine TrPrado and figure that out given that we are on the verge of losing. So, I am going to ##UNVOTE

I still like Fox as a lynch but then again it's my interpretation, we are in a really bad spot, and I want to look over everything again as I believe we should all do. It's the start of the phase there is time to look everything over. There is no rush to be hasty.

If we take away the TrPrado scan, do you still scumread Fox?

I wasn't scumreading Fox prior to this no.

[Squigs44]

Reporter has a 1/3 chance of correctly selecting a Mafia w/ PR - assuming he doesn't get roleblocked or NKed (the former would probably happen if Balki is scum). There aren't stupidly great odds of us getting useful information, and it's not worth sacrificing the judge for that useless information.

Well actually the odds are worse than 1/3 since he only sees home / not home and after cop is dead framer and lawyer won't do anything. However, his scan isn't random, so we shouldn't go off of those odds anyway.
Even if he gets a scan that says home or he gets RB'd or whatever, we can still lynch mafia without the judge doing a showdown. I think you are overestimating the judge Chippe.

Whether I convince you of this point or not doesn't matter, its up to Balki to claim.

I adjusted the Reporters odds to account for him being better at finding scum than randomness...

Okay so you used some arbitrary number to back up your case, good to know.

Can you explain to me why Judge picking 1 mafia and 1 town provides us with more value than your 1/3 chance of automatically finding and lynching scum?