Brexit
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1.) No personal threats.
2.) No doxxing/revealing personal information.
3.) No spam.
4.) No circumventing press restrictions.
5.) No racism, sexism, homophobia, or derogatory posts.
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Re: Brexit
You were? They spent hours and hours making the obvious choice that everyone has been expecting them to make for weeks. I was put in mind of my family at a restaurant trying to decide if they want dessert or not. The answer will always be yes, but somehow it takes the best part of an hour to get there.
In a new statement that I'm going to refer to as Emmanuel II: The joys of a Frenchman, MacRon has given the odds of May's deal passing as 1/20.
Tempted, Ora?
In a new statement that I'm going to refer to as Emmanuel II: The joys of a Frenchman, MacRon has given the odds of May's deal passing as 1/20.
Tempted, Ora?
Re: Brexit
I expect the UK to make the obvious choice too, but they have been bickering for four months
Re: Brexit
This whole thing started when the Conservative party assumed people would vote for the obvious option. Peace, economic prosperity, global political and diplomatic influence... For all the flaws the EU has (and I will be the first to complain) Europeans have been living through something of a golden age...
Of course the Conservatives may have missed out this alliance: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... and-brexit
Of course the Conservatives may have missed out this alliance: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... and-brexit
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Re: Brexit
I'm not convinced that's true. There had been a growing anti European feeling for some time, both within the major parties and amongst the public. It was approaching the stage where everything about Europe was becoming a battleground, which was seriously impacting our ability to get things done. The referendum was about lancing the boil before it got out of hand and we lost control.
The problem was that the referendum came too late, not that we had one. And there was a lot of bad luck. I don't think anyone anticipated that the Labour Party would elect a Brexit supporting leader, and it was unfortunate that Europe didn't believe a Brexit vote was possible. The pro-Brexit campaign was also far better run than anyone was expecting.
As for a golden age, I guess it depends on your point of view. We're not slaughtering each other on an industrial scale, but the world wars are not a particularly impressive benchmark to beat.
The problem was that the referendum came too late, not that we had one. And there was a lot of bad luck. I don't think anyone anticipated that the Labour Party would elect a Brexit supporting leader, and it was unfortunate that Europe didn't believe a Brexit vote was possible. The pro-Brexit campaign was also far better run than anyone was expecting.
As for a golden age, I guess it depends on your point of view. We're not slaughtering each other on an industrial scale, but the world wars are not a particularly impressive benchmark to beat.
Re: Brexit
This is the first time in a thousand years that European nations aren't at war with each other, either in Europe proper or (like the century after the Congress of Vienna) fighting for control of the rest of the world... With each other.
So it may be a bit optomistic to claim this is a golden age. If the EU project goes well and proceeds for the next 200 years, then in 1000 years maybe we will look back on it as a golden age. Maybe Brexit will actually demonstrate the flawed political structure of the EU and cause a great reform phase, or dismantling to phase as the EU dissolves into less closer unions... Who knows.
So it may be a bit optomistic to claim this is a golden age. If the EU project goes well and proceeds for the next 200 years, then in 1000 years maybe we will look back on it as a golden age. Maybe Brexit will actually demonstrate the flawed political structure of the EU and cause a great reform phase, or dismantling to phase as the EU dissolves into less closer unions... Who knows.
Re: Brexit
They were so tired of May coming there begging and begging. Now we need to clear our desk from this tedious issue and move on to all the other much more important matters for Europe.
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Re: Brexit
You've really not been paying attention at all, have you? We're miles away from this being over. And even if we were it's only one manifestation of wider anti EU feeling that's been increasing across the EU.
Re: Brexit
Regardless of the anti EU feelings you think you see, Power protects itself, and the EU has accumulated much power... I can only assume that they will not be blind-sided again. But we shall see.Octavious wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:07 amYou've really not been paying attention at all, have you? We're miles away from this being over. And even if we were it's only one manifestation of wider anti EU feeling that's been increasing across the EU.
Re: Brexit
When I first saw this it was at 800 thousand...
https://odileeds.org/projects/petitions/?241584
Now it is up to 29% of the electorate in some places.
https://odileeds.org/projects/petitions/?241584
Now it is up to 29% of the electorate in some places.
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Re: Brexit
It is pretty much irrelevant in the sense it adds nothing new. We have always known that there are millions of pro EU people in the UK. It will no doubt feature in a couple of speeches, but beyond that it's pretty meaningless. These petitions are designed to bring issues that matter to people, but for whatever reason don't feature strongly on Parliament's radar, to the attention of MPs. In the case of Brexit, it doesn't really do anything.orathaic wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:27 amWhen I first saw this it was at 800 thousand...
https://odileeds.org/projects/petitions/?241584
Now it is up to 29% of the electorate in some places.
Re: Brexit
Yeah, parliament doesn't really want* to set a precedent of listening to the people... Who knows what would happen.Octavious wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:04 pmIt is pretty much irrelevant in the sense it adds nothing new. We have always known that there are millions of pro EU people in the UK. It will no doubt feature in a couple of speeches, but beyond that it's pretty meaningless. These petitions are designed to bring issues that matter to people, but for whatever reason don't feature strongly on Parliament's radar, to the attention of MPs. In the case of Brexit, it doesn't really do anything.orathaic wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:27 amWhen I first saw this it was at 800 thousand...
https://odileeds.org/projects/petitions/?241584
Now it is up to 29% of the electorate in some places.
*again, power protects itself. Applies equally here.
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Re: Brexit
I don't follow the connection. Over 16 million people went to the trouble of voting Remain. In what sense does a quarter of them saying, a few years later, "we really mean it" change anything? How does this power protecting itself notion of yours apply in this case?
Re: Brexit
Parliament does not want to be seen to do whatever a crowd of 4 million people sign a petition for them to do. They will protect the power of parliament by ignoring a petition.
Re: Brexit
It is you that do not seem to understand very much. The fact is that news about Brexit is not very intensely reported in the rest of EU (maybe more on Ireland since they are more affected by your shit). And yes because of our uninterest in you shit, I have probably missed some details. And frankly I look forward to the day I do not need talk about this subject any longer.Octavious wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:07 amYou've really not been paying attention at all, have you? We're miles away from this being over. And even if we were it's only one manifestation of wider anti EU feeling that's been increasing across the EU.
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Re: Brexit
For once we are very much in agreement.
Parliament loves being seen doing what the public wants them to do. There's nothing Parliament would love more than if the people decided in great numbers that Brexit was a bad idea and that it could simply be called off. Sadly, that hasn't happened.
Re: Brexit
I think Brexit is now inevitable. Another referendum, unless won by remain with a massive majority (e.g. 60%+) is just going to lead to more social instability.orathaic wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:27 amWhen I first saw this it was at 800 thousand...
https://odileeds.org/projects/petitions/?241584
Now it is up to 29% of the electorate in some places.
Honestly, May should just pull her finger out and do it with "no deal" now. Give the Brexit hardliners what they want. The world won't end and it is important for long term social cohesion irrespective of the potential economic repercussions. If it causes major economic pain Britain can always rejoin at some later point...and the question of Brexit will be closed for generations. If it doesn't cause major economic harm, then the Brexiteers were right...and we can re-assess the importance of other global institutions too.
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Re: Brexit
The trouble is that it isn't particularly good for social cohesion. The original referendum question was fine if Remain had won, but it simply wasn't designed for a Brexit victory. A no deal Brexit will satisfy a fair number of people, but far from a majority. Combine economic hardship and a majority of people thinking it was a bad or awful idea and you have a potentially explosive mix.
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