Multiculturalism Ruins Nations
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Re: Multiculturalism Ruins Nations
Ok sure. There are radical Muslims that exist outside of the west's fault. My aunt comes from Egypt and her stories about its dominant radical Muslim culture are quite scary and she's so glad to immigrate to Canada where she has more rights.
If you want to talk about Islam that's another topic. Again, decrying multiculturalism because of radical Islam doesn't flow.
If you want to talk about Islam that's another topic. Again, decrying multiculturalism because of radical Islam doesn't flow.
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Re: Multiculturalism Ruins Nations
@nefs, statistically the group most likely to commit violent crimes are men. Maybe your community just has more men. I’d advise banning men be proposed at your city town hall.
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Re: Multiculturalism Ruins Nations
When you're talking about what people who live in certain countries feel, it's kind of an extrapolation to say that people who choose to leave those countries behind to live in Western countries are also going to hold to the exact same statistics as the demographics of their old country, especially when that old country is authoritarian.
Also importantly, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a way of enforcing homogeneity that doesn't push society to be increasingly authoritarian and violent.
Also importantly, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a way of enforcing homogeneity that doesn't push society to be increasingly authoritarian and violent.
Re: Multiculturalism Ruins Nations
Petition to get more multiculturalism in my country, our local people are absolute trash and I'm certain that newcomers might make it more acceptable.
Foreigners have advanced our country. Honestly, I plead for Americans to come over and seize this land.
I wish for more immigrants in my country because locals are a pain and inhumane bunch. I want for them to be replaced by others, hopefully more decent people
Foreigners have advanced our country. Honestly, I plead for Americans to come over and seize this land.
I wish for more immigrants in my country because locals are a pain and inhumane bunch. I want for them to be replaced by others, hopefully more decent people
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Re: Multiculturalism Ruins Nations
I like it- 90% of crimes here are indeed committed by men.jmo1121109 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:25 pm@nefs, statistically the group most likely to commit violent crimes are men. Maybe your community just has more men. I’d advise banning men be proposed at your city town hall.
Re: Multiculturalism Ruins Nations
I wrote about this once before initiating a very interesting debate as looks like it might have started here. Rather than go over the same ground I just copied the same material into this thread. This is an extremely difficult subject but I have sympathy with the original post that nations are at risk if not necessarily ruined.
“Brave subject this & I am voicing long held suspicions, not deeply held convictions, so do please rebuff/support my observations as you see fit. We often proudly live in multicultural societies with excellent & correct levels of mutual tolerance within them.
So, we see women “dressed as letter boxes” as it was so subtlety put the other day. We can all be tolerant of that & should be, but in my culture it would be a bizarre style of dress, leading to somewhat distrust due to the total coverage & even more so when the “letter box” won’t, for further cultural reasons, accept a handshake. But it’s not my problem, so let’s happily tolerate & embrace our differences.
I grew up in a rough neighbourhood of London where street fights were commonplace amongst headstrong youths, but no one “pulled a knife”. It was an act of cowardice that was often brutally punished soon thereafter by a large number of like minded headstrong youths. One could end up hospitalised by such behaviour. But now in London largely amongst the immigrant population of foreign culture (& others I’m sure) knife carrying has become commonplace amongst headstrong youths. It’s not my problem, so let’s tolerate. We don’t want to search and brutalise all those knife carriers.
All communities have paedophiles, but to have a group of adult men collaborating to groom & then pass around underage girls is certainly not something I ever experienced in my culture (past by heresay, or present from current knowledge) neither is forced marriage, or child brides. Yet these have all become pretty commonplace in UK brought to us by foreign cultures, although illegal. Not being responsible for young girls upbringing this one is just about tolerable, although completely revolting.
My home upbringing was deeply Christian (& I have faith of sorts although many would comment on my lack of Sunday attendance) & people never said it was OK to wage war, or behead, or kill anyone based on their religious beliefs. However religions brought to us by foreign cultures include such doctrines & although thankfully not observed very often, it is way to often to really be tolerated. Culprits are criticised, but not the foreign faith &/or culture itself. That gets tolerated.
We have an unbelievably tolerant society, given a quick look at the above, none of which were cultural norms when I was young & here’s the crunch. With sufficient patience, self control & tolerance all of this can be accepted as the new normal, but deep down it will be hated with total disapproval.
Then comes, distrust, disrespect, unspoken malice, whereby folks of a certain cultural background need to demonstrate they’re “good guys” that don’t participate in all these barbaric practices, before gaining acceptance (racial profiling I believe, as it’s now referred). Barriers form between communities because of perceived injustice & often real injustice coming from this situation.
Multiculturalism is now an everyday fact of life, but it would seem many cultures have practises that are deeply offensive to other cultures. The above is a tiny sample of the reality. If we are to deeply offend each other on a daily basis, with only a veneer of tolerance (hiding true feelings) racial/cultural prejudice (hopefully only moderate) seems to be an inevitable outcome.
If this is true, why are we even attempting it? The benefits of multiculturalism don’t seem to match the price being demanded of everyone involved, of all races.
Given twenty rewrites I could probably have expressed this better, but let’s leave it as is for the purpose of starting discussion. The essential premise is that unless cultures are forced to moderate towards a common accepted mode of operating in a given society, then deep offense is almost inevitable, leading to prejudice based on culture/race.
As soon as a culture is forced to conform to a norm other than it’s own, that itself becomes labelled prejudicial. There is no win in this for anyone.
I look forward to hearing thoughts & observations. I hope I haven’t come across as a screaming racist because I truly believe I’m not, but I definitely have problems with some foreign cultures. That I could never deny.”
“Brave subject this & I am voicing long held suspicions, not deeply held convictions, so do please rebuff/support my observations as you see fit. We often proudly live in multicultural societies with excellent & correct levels of mutual tolerance within them.
So, we see women “dressed as letter boxes” as it was so subtlety put the other day. We can all be tolerant of that & should be, but in my culture it would be a bizarre style of dress, leading to somewhat distrust due to the total coverage & even more so when the “letter box” won’t, for further cultural reasons, accept a handshake. But it’s not my problem, so let’s happily tolerate & embrace our differences.
I grew up in a rough neighbourhood of London where street fights were commonplace amongst headstrong youths, but no one “pulled a knife”. It was an act of cowardice that was often brutally punished soon thereafter by a large number of like minded headstrong youths. One could end up hospitalised by such behaviour. But now in London largely amongst the immigrant population of foreign culture (& others I’m sure) knife carrying has become commonplace amongst headstrong youths. It’s not my problem, so let’s tolerate. We don’t want to search and brutalise all those knife carriers.
All communities have paedophiles, but to have a group of adult men collaborating to groom & then pass around underage girls is certainly not something I ever experienced in my culture (past by heresay, or present from current knowledge) neither is forced marriage, or child brides. Yet these have all become pretty commonplace in UK brought to us by foreign cultures, although illegal. Not being responsible for young girls upbringing this one is just about tolerable, although completely revolting.
My home upbringing was deeply Christian (& I have faith of sorts although many would comment on my lack of Sunday attendance) & people never said it was OK to wage war, or behead, or kill anyone based on their religious beliefs. However religions brought to us by foreign cultures include such doctrines & although thankfully not observed very often, it is way to often to really be tolerated. Culprits are criticised, but not the foreign faith &/or culture itself. That gets tolerated.
We have an unbelievably tolerant society, given a quick look at the above, none of which were cultural norms when I was young & here’s the crunch. With sufficient patience, self control & tolerance all of this can be accepted as the new normal, but deep down it will be hated with total disapproval.
Then comes, distrust, disrespect, unspoken malice, whereby folks of a certain cultural background need to demonstrate they’re “good guys” that don’t participate in all these barbaric practices, before gaining acceptance (racial profiling I believe, as it’s now referred). Barriers form between communities because of perceived injustice & often real injustice coming from this situation.
Multiculturalism is now an everyday fact of life, but it would seem many cultures have practises that are deeply offensive to other cultures. The above is a tiny sample of the reality. If we are to deeply offend each other on a daily basis, with only a veneer of tolerance (hiding true feelings) racial/cultural prejudice (hopefully only moderate) seems to be an inevitable outcome.
If this is true, why are we even attempting it? The benefits of multiculturalism don’t seem to match the price being demanded of everyone involved, of all races.
Given twenty rewrites I could probably have expressed this better, but let’s leave it as is for the purpose of starting discussion. The essential premise is that unless cultures are forced to moderate towards a common accepted mode of operating in a given society, then deep offense is almost inevitable, leading to prejudice based on culture/race.
As soon as a culture is forced to conform to a norm other than it’s own, that itself becomes labelled prejudicial. There is no win in this for anyone.
I look forward to hearing thoughts & observations. I hope I haven’t come across as a screaming racist because I truly believe I’m not, but I definitely have problems with some foreign cultures. That I could never deny.”
Re: Multiculturalism Ruins Nations
Multiculturalism is an existential threat to the nation state. That is obvious to most I think. The countries of Europe are nation states. European nations are defined by a common ethnicity, language, culture, history and even religion (less so in the Balkans though, and it is not surprising that the Balkans in turn has experienced civil wars and terrible bloodshed in the last couple decades). It is no wonder then that the radical leftists that hate the idea of the nation state push for multiculturalism.
However, while European countries are nation states, the United States isn't a nation state, at least not in the same sense as European ones.
The U.S. and Canada are immigrant nations. They are multicultural by default. American and Canadian identity then isn't defined by a shared ethnicity, religion or even culture. Their identities are instead defined by ideas and shared history. Canadian identity is that of loyalists to the crown, while Americans were united by revolt against the crown. Americans are united by beliefs - 'American way of life' or the 'American dream'. Of course, Anglicanism defined Canada and Protestantism America, but at the same time Irish Americans were Catholics as well as French Canadians, who are just as Canadian as their English Anglican counter parts. The things that formed and hold together European nations (and pretty much all other 'old world' nations) are not the same for USA and Canada.
I don't think then that multiculturalism is a problem for the U.S. or Canada. What people need to understand is that immigration policies that work in North America don't work in Europe.
I live in Canada, and multiculturalism here works fine. I actually live in Toronto, one of the most multicultural cities in the world. What has to be noted is Canada's immigration policy. Realistically, the only way to come to the US or Canada is by plane (unless you are jumping the border in Mexico). Because of that, Canada and the US has been able to easily control who comes in and who doesn't. Airports are very effective and secure ports of entry. My parents are both immigrants. They both have university degrees. I grew up in a neighbourhood of mostly immigrants, and all my friends were either immigrants or the kids of immigrants. All their parents had university degrees or were skilled technicians like electricians or plumbers. Canada has a very strict immigration policy, it only really allows people with university degrees to come in, skilled specialists or farmers (we need dem farmers). Education and social class unites people much more than most other factors. An uneducated poor white in Georgia has much more in common with an uneducated poor black in Georgia than he does with an educated tech yuppie in Atlanta. Canada's visa immigration policy has only allowed in educated and skilled workers, and by doing so ensured they all share common attributes. Educated people are less likely to be radicals or extremists and are usually moderate. There are plenty of Persians here in Toronto, I know plenty and they are usually educated, skeptical of the islamic regime in Tehran, and most that I know drink alcohol.
On the other hand, to get into Europe all you need is a raft and hope there isn't a storm in the Mediterranean when you cross. Or you can just walk thru Turkey and jump a couple fences in Serbia or Macedonia. Europe cannot control who comes in and who doesn't. Therefore, Europe is not being flooded with doctors, engineers, electricians, they are being flooded with unskilled teenage or young adult men, farmers and general labourers. Most are not highly educated or skilled and are therefore more likely to be extremists or radicals. European nations can integrate and assimilate educated immigrants that come in small numbers. Large numbers of uneducated immigrants is a massive problem and if not addressed will destroy Europe.
Multiculturalism is not a threat to the U.S, but it is to Europe, because their respective national identities are defined by different attributes.
That being said, what is the biggest threat to the US in my opinion, is not multiculturalism, but rather a shift away from the ideals that created the American nation. Socialism is the opposite of American ideals and is an existential threat to the US.
However, while European countries are nation states, the United States isn't a nation state, at least not in the same sense as European ones.
The U.S. and Canada are immigrant nations. They are multicultural by default. American and Canadian identity then isn't defined by a shared ethnicity, religion or even culture. Their identities are instead defined by ideas and shared history. Canadian identity is that of loyalists to the crown, while Americans were united by revolt against the crown. Americans are united by beliefs - 'American way of life' or the 'American dream'. Of course, Anglicanism defined Canada and Protestantism America, but at the same time Irish Americans were Catholics as well as French Canadians, who are just as Canadian as their English Anglican counter parts. The things that formed and hold together European nations (and pretty much all other 'old world' nations) are not the same for USA and Canada.
I don't think then that multiculturalism is a problem for the U.S. or Canada. What people need to understand is that immigration policies that work in North America don't work in Europe.
I live in Canada, and multiculturalism here works fine. I actually live in Toronto, one of the most multicultural cities in the world. What has to be noted is Canada's immigration policy. Realistically, the only way to come to the US or Canada is by plane (unless you are jumping the border in Mexico). Because of that, Canada and the US has been able to easily control who comes in and who doesn't. Airports are very effective and secure ports of entry. My parents are both immigrants. They both have university degrees. I grew up in a neighbourhood of mostly immigrants, and all my friends were either immigrants or the kids of immigrants. All their parents had university degrees or were skilled technicians like electricians or plumbers. Canada has a very strict immigration policy, it only really allows people with university degrees to come in, skilled specialists or farmers (we need dem farmers). Education and social class unites people much more than most other factors. An uneducated poor white in Georgia has much more in common with an uneducated poor black in Georgia than he does with an educated tech yuppie in Atlanta. Canada's visa immigration policy has only allowed in educated and skilled workers, and by doing so ensured they all share common attributes. Educated people are less likely to be radicals or extremists and are usually moderate. There are plenty of Persians here in Toronto, I know plenty and they are usually educated, skeptical of the islamic regime in Tehran, and most that I know drink alcohol.
On the other hand, to get into Europe all you need is a raft and hope there isn't a storm in the Mediterranean when you cross. Or you can just walk thru Turkey and jump a couple fences in Serbia or Macedonia. Europe cannot control who comes in and who doesn't. Therefore, Europe is not being flooded with doctors, engineers, electricians, they are being flooded with unskilled teenage or young adult men, farmers and general labourers. Most are not highly educated or skilled and are therefore more likely to be extremists or radicals. European nations can integrate and assimilate educated immigrants that come in small numbers. Large numbers of uneducated immigrants is a massive problem and if not addressed will destroy Europe.
Multiculturalism is not a threat to the U.S, but it is to Europe, because their respective national identities are defined by different attributes.
That being said, what is the biggest threat to the US in my opinion, is not multiculturalism, but rather a shift away from the ideals that created the American nation. Socialism is the opposite of American ideals and is an existential threat to the US.
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Re: Multiculturalism Ruins Nations
What you are saying is essentially exactly what I am saying as well- if violence seems to be inevitable, why must we continue down this path? We can invade the world or invite the world- we cannot do both. We cannot have a welfare state and at the same time invite in mass numbers of people, many of whom are illiterate in their own languages, let alone ours. More importantly, without even reading the Putnam study, you've touched on an incredibly salient point- the closer in proximity different groups become, the more deep seeded their anger and resentment towards each other also comes. Why exactly are we doing this? And thank you for your comment- I appreciate it.Senlac wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:10 amI wrote about this once before initiating a very interesting debate as looks like it might have started here. Rather than go over the same ground I just copied the same material into this thread. This is an extremely difficult subject but I have sympathy with the original post that nations are at risk if not necessarily ruined.
“Brave subject this & I am voicing long held suspicions, not deeply held convictions, so do please rebuff/support my observations as you see fit. We often proudly live in multicultural societies with excellent & correct levels of mutual tolerance within them.
So, we see women “dressed as letter boxes” as it was so subtlety put the other day. We can all be tolerant of that & should be, but in my culture it would be a bizarre style of dress, leading to somewhat distrust due to the total coverage & even more so when the “letter box” won’t, for further cultural reasons, accept a handshake. But it’s not my problem, so let’s happily tolerate & embrace our differences.
I grew up in a rough neighbourhood of London where street fights were commonplace amongst headstrong youths, but no one “pulled a knife”. It was an act of cowardice that was often brutally punished soon thereafter by a large number of like minded headstrong youths. One could end up hospitalised by such behaviour. But now in London largely amongst the immigrant population of foreign culture (& others I’m sure) knife carrying has become commonplace amongst headstrong youths. It’s not my problem, so let’s tolerate. We don’t want to search and brutalise all those knife carriers.
All communities have paedophiles, but to have a group of adult men collaborating to groom & then pass around underage girls is certainly not something I ever experienced in my culture (past by heresay, or present from current knowledge) neither is forced marriage, or child brides. Yet these have all become pretty commonplace in UK brought to us by foreign cultures, although illegal. Not being responsible for young girls upbringing this one is just about tolerable, although completely revolting.
My home upbringing was deeply Christian (& I have faith of sorts although many would comment on my lack of Sunday attendance) & people never said it was OK to wage war, or behead, or kill anyone based on their religious beliefs. However religions brought to us by foreign cultures include such doctrines & although thankfully not observed very often, it is way to often to really be tolerated. Culprits are criticised, but not the foreign faith &/or culture itself. That gets tolerated.
We have an unbelievably tolerant society, given a quick look at the above, none of which were cultural norms when I was young & here’s the crunch. With sufficient patience, self control & tolerance all of this can be accepted as the new normal, but deep down it will be hated with total disapproval.
Then comes, distrust, disrespect, unspoken malice, whereby folks of a certain cultural background need to demonstrate they’re “good guys” that don’t participate in all these barbaric practices, before gaining acceptance (racial profiling I believe, as it’s now referred). Barriers form between communities because of perceived injustice & often real injustice coming from this situation.
Multiculturalism is now an everyday fact of life, but it would seem many cultures have practises that are deeply offensive to other cultures. The above is a tiny sample of the reality. If we are to deeply offend each other on a daily basis, with only a veneer of tolerance (hiding true feelings) racial/cultural prejudice (hopefully only moderate) seems to be an inevitable outcome.
If this is true, why are we even attempting it? The benefits of multiculturalism don’t seem to match the price being demanded of everyone involved, of all races.
Given twenty rewrites I could probably have expressed this better, but let’s leave it as is for the purpose of starting discussion. The essential premise is that unless cultures are forced to moderate towards a common accepted mode of operating in a given society, then deep offense is almost inevitable, leading to prejudice based on culture/race.
As soon as a culture is forced to conform to a norm other than it’s own, that itself becomes labelled prejudicial. There is no win in this for anyone.
I look forward to hearing thoughts & observations. I hope I haven’t come across as a screaming racist because I truly believe I’m not, but I definitely have problems with some foreign cultures. That I could never deny.”
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Re: Multiculturalism Ruins Nations
I understand what you are saying, but my rebuttal is simply this: why should we assume our magic dirt will make people change their views? This sounds like Karl Rove babbling about how because Hispanics have 'family values' they are natural Republicans. Well yeah, but the vast majority of South America, for many reasons, is heavily left wing. Why would that change? It really didn't, and it really hasn't.TrPrado wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:00 pmWhen you're talking about what people who live in certain countries feel, it's kind of an extrapolation to say that people who choose to leave those countries behind to live in Western countries are also going to hold to the exact same statistics as the demographics of their old country, especially when that old country is authoritarian.
Also importantly, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a way of enforcing homogeneity that doesn't push society to be increasingly authoritarian and violent.
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Re: Multiculturalism Ruins Nations
This is another great comment, and while I don't agree without you 100%, I agree with quite a bit of it. I certainly agree that multiculturalism works better in the US and Canada, but I wouldn't argue that modern day multiculturalism has made the US stronger. A huge problem we have in the US (I'm not sure about Canada, my Justin Trudeau calendar masks my limited knowledge of the country) is intersectionality. This is quite possibly the dominant ideology of the youth, especially on college campuses. This ideology essentially teaches that all besides straight whites should be united in what would essentially be a struggle based on race, sex, and how one self identifies to tear down what they view to be the privileged majority. It's gotten to the point where one of our two major political parties essentially must run on an open borders policy, simply to pacify these people, but that probably won't be enough in the end. People are made to publicly apologize for the most minimal offenses, and at the college in my town, they now have an all black and all gay dorm, at the request of the students. I seem to recall people marching against that sort of thing back in day, but maybe I misunderstoodILN wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:42 amMulticulturalism is an existential threat to the nation state. That is obvious to most I think. The countries of Europe are nation states. European nations are defined by a common ethnicity, language, culture, history and even religion (less so in the Balkans though, and it is not surprising that the Balkans in turn has experienced civil wars and terrible bloodshed in the last couple decades). It is no wonder then that the radical leftists that hate the idea of the nation state push for multiculturalism.
However, while European countries are nation states, the United States isn't a nation state, at least not in the same sense as European ones.
The U.S. and Canada are immigrant nations. They are multicultural by default. American and Canadian identity then isn't defined by a shared ethnicity, religion or even culture. Their identities are instead defined by ideas and shared history. Canadian identity is that of loyalists to the crown, while Americans were united by revolt against the crown. Americans are united by beliefs - 'American way of life' or the 'American dream'. Of course, Anglicanism defined Canada and Protestantism America, but at the same time Irish Americans were Catholics as well as French Canadians, who are just as Canadian as their English Anglican counter parts. The things that formed and hold together European nations (and pretty much all other 'old world' nations) are not the same for USA and Canada.
I don't think then that multiculturalism is a problem for the U.S. or Canada. What people need to understand is that immigration policies that work in North America don't work in Europe.
I live in Canada, and multiculturalism here works fine. I actually live in Toronto, one of the most multicultural cities in the world. What has to be noted is Canada's immigration policy. Realistically, the only way to come to the US or Canada is by plane (unless you are jumping the border in Mexico). Because of that, Canada and the US has been able to easily control who comes in and who doesn't. Airports are very effective and secure ports of entry. My parents are both immigrants. They both have university degrees. I grew up in a neighbourhood of mostly immigrants, and all my friends were either immigrants or the kids of immigrants. All their parents had university degrees or were skilled technicians like electricians or plumbers. Canada has a very strict immigration policy, it only really allows people with university degrees to come in, skilled specialists or farmers (we need dem farmers). Education and social class unites people much more than most other factors. An uneducated poor white in Georgia has much more in common with an uneducated poor black in Georgia than he does with an educated tech yuppie in Atlanta. Canada's visa immigration policy has only allowed in educated and skilled workers, and by doing so ensured they all share common attributes. Educated people are less likely to be radicals or extremists and are usually moderate. There are plenty of Persians here in Toronto, I know plenty and they are usually educated, skeptical of the islamic regime in Tehran, and most that I know drink alcohol.
On the other hand, to get into Europe all you need is a raft and hope there isn't a storm in the Mediterranean when you cross. Or you can just walk thru Turkey and jump a couple fences in Serbia or Macedonia. Europe cannot control who comes in and who doesn't. Therefore, Europe is not being flooded with doctors, engineers, electricians, they are being flooded with unskilled teenage or young adult men, farmers and general labourers. Most are not highly educated or skilled and are therefore more likely to be extremists or radicals. European nations can integrate and assimilate educated immigrants that come in small numbers. Large numbers of uneducated immigrants is a massive problem and if not addressed will destroy Europe.
Multiculturalism is not a threat to the U.S, but it is to Europe, because their respective national identities are defined by different attributes.
That being said, what is the biggest threat to the US in my opinion, is not multiculturalism, but rather a shift away from the ideals that created the American nation. Socialism is the opposite of American ideals and is an existential threat to the US.
![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif)
Re: Multiculturalism Ruins Nations
No I don't think so. My parents came to Canada to escape communism. Though they left after the fall of the communist regime, the country was (is, and probably will still be for the next 15 years at least) ruined by communism. The Russians here in Toronto also came here to escape the soviet union. Same with the Chinese here (a lot are from Hong Kong and they aren't big fans of the mainland).New England Fire Squad wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:53 amwhy is America becoming more favorable to socialism? Is it possibly because a much larger percentage of the population now comes from places that like it?
If you actually look at who the communists on campus are, its the white kids lol. Which is understandable. When you are born into a society with a free market, freedom of expression, religion, affiliation - every freedom and right you can think of, you take them for granted and they lose value. We live in a society where we have it so good, that we focus on non-issues like gender pronouns. We don't have any 'real' issues compared to the Syrians who have had their country destroyed, or the Sudanese. While the North Koreans are starving to death in labour camps, our concern is rising obesity.
IMO, spoiled white kids who have it too good in life want to spice it up by being a 'revolutionary' and 'smashing the patriarchy' or 'smashing capitalism' and whatever other 'smashing' they wanna do. Young people have always been rebellious. (a silver lining to this is that conservatism is now the new counter culture)
Socialism is on the rise because universities are indoctrinating machines staffed by radical professors that proselytize their students, and because of the bias in the media. Also, a lot of the concerns socialists have are valid, and an increasingly corporatist america doesn't help.
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Re: Multiculturalism Ruins Nations
I am a spoiled white kid with spoiled white kid friends so I have a bit of first hand experience with this mindset.
(my parents raised me well so I'd like to think I'm not that spoiled, but just the fact I've grown up in a stable home with food, water, comfort with relatively little work on my part is enough to put me in the top 1% of humans who have ever lived, thus spoiling me)
Thing is, we feel extremely guilty (at least subconsciously) about how well we have it, and we aren't really sure how to accept or live with this. We learn in history all the terrible stories and the news in all the other countries about how bad people have it. One of the best ways to cope with this, is to become victims ourselves. Victimhood automatically gives us a bit of "free virtue points" and if we have it bad, we feel better about ourselves because our guilt gets removed.
One easy way to become a victim is embrace identity politics to an extreme degree where everyone is automatically victims other than straight, white, males.
This "revolutionary/smashing capitalism" activism I'm sure looks really stupid to people who come from countries where actual activism involves risking your life, but again it's a movement done out of subconscious guilt that we're not doing enough to make the world better, and I think a lot of it comes from a good intentioned people.
Socialism looks very awesome on paper, because it's all about redistributing the wealth and "bringing people out of poverty and helping poor people". It's a perfect cause for university students to engage with to help us sleep at night.
Whether it actually works or not is another issue.
It's all obviously a bit more nuanced than this, and our generation does have some legitimate grievances despite being relatively well off, but yeah I agree with most of your last post.
(my parents raised me well so I'd like to think I'm not that spoiled, but just the fact I've grown up in a stable home with food, water, comfort with relatively little work on my part is enough to put me in the top 1% of humans who have ever lived, thus spoiling me)
Thing is, we feel extremely guilty (at least subconsciously) about how well we have it, and we aren't really sure how to accept or live with this. We learn in history all the terrible stories and the news in all the other countries about how bad people have it. One of the best ways to cope with this, is to become victims ourselves. Victimhood automatically gives us a bit of "free virtue points" and if we have it bad, we feel better about ourselves because our guilt gets removed.
One easy way to become a victim is embrace identity politics to an extreme degree where everyone is automatically victims other than straight, white, males.
This "revolutionary/smashing capitalism" activism I'm sure looks really stupid to people who come from countries where actual activism involves risking your life, but again it's a movement done out of subconscious guilt that we're not doing enough to make the world better, and I think a lot of it comes from a good intentioned people.
Socialism looks very awesome on paper, because it's all about redistributing the wealth and "bringing people out of poverty and helping poor people". It's a perfect cause for university students to engage with to help us sleep at night.
Whether it actually works or not is another issue.
It's all obviously a bit more nuanced than this, and our generation does have some legitimate grievances despite being relatively well off, but yeah I agree with most of your last post.
Re: Multiculturalism Ruins Nations
Legit its hilarious that Fluminator is actually trying to debate this topic. lol
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Re: Multiculturalism Ruins Nations
I'm a huge fan of multiculturalism. Enough so that I think it's worth arguing for? lol
Re: Multiculturalism Ruins Nations
I mean this guy is making so pretty disconcerting statements that are trolly and pretty divisive. I was impressed you were actually debating himFluminator wrote: ↑Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:25 amI'm a huge fan of multiculturalism. Enough so that I think it's worth arguing for? lol
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Re: Multiculturalism Ruins Nations
Assuming the demographics of a group of people who choose to uproot their entire lives to live in a completely different country is going to be ideologically the exact same as the place they're leaving behind abandons any and all attempts to look at context. Their views don't change based on where they live, sure, but that's entirely irrelevant and not something anybody has ever claimed. These people may share a culture with their home country, but there's some massive disconnect between them and their country.New England Fire Squad wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:35 amI understand what you are saying, but my rebuttal is simply this: why should we assume our magic dirt will make people change their views? This sounds like Karl Rove babbling about how because Hispanics have 'family values' they are natural Republicans. Well yeah, but the vast majority of South America, for many reasons, is heavily left wing. Why would that change? It really didn't, and it really hasn't.
Re: Multiculturalism Ruins Nations
Fluminator wrote;
“Thing is, we feel extremely guilty (at least subconsciously) about how well we have it, and we aren't really sure how to accept or live with this. We learn in history all the terrible stories and the news in all the other countries about how bad people have it. One of the best ways to cope with this, is to become victims ourselves. Victimhood automatically gives us a bit of "free virtue points" and if we have it bad, we feel better about ourselves because our guilt gets removed.”
I have a better idea than “victimhood”.
Pass it on to the next generation. It works by the way.
In my family most grew up & remained in south London dumps, never owning property, never going to university, never being professionals. Remarkably my parents were made of different stuff. My dad studied, became stockbroker & raised 3 “spoilt” graduates, who beget 7 “spoilt” graduates now living in places like Dubai, California & much nicer parts of England than South London & there are currently 6 of the next “spoilt” generation working there way to primary school.
All are doted upon by caring parents & will get every advantage in life, with only one duty attached. Pass it on to the next generation...
I asked my dad what really counted in his life (when he was old). He said “being a husband & father. Nothing else is relevant.” After a 50 year stockbroking career most would be jealous of achieving (coming from the slums).
If it wasn’t for he & my Mum’s efforts none of that would have happened. So rather than feeble identity politics BS & failed political ideologies & victimhood, how about preparing to become great parents, capable of supporting the next generation & do one hell of a good job at it when you get the chance. After all “nothing else is relevant”, take my Dad’s word for it.
“Thing is, we feel extremely guilty (at least subconsciously) about how well we have it, and we aren't really sure how to accept or live with this. We learn in history all the terrible stories and the news in all the other countries about how bad people have it. One of the best ways to cope with this, is to become victims ourselves. Victimhood automatically gives us a bit of "free virtue points" and if we have it bad, we feel better about ourselves because our guilt gets removed.”
I have a better idea than “victimhood”.
Pass it on to the next generation. It works by the way.
In my family most grew up & remained in south London dumps, never owning property, never going to university, never being professionals. Remarkably my parents were made of different stuff. My dad studied, became stockbroker & raised 3 “spoilt” graduates, who beget 7 “spoilt” graduates now living in places like Dubai, California & much nicer parts of England than South London & there are currently 6 of the next “spoilt” generation working there way to primary school.
All are doted upon by caring parents & will get every advantage in life, with only one duty attached. Pass it on to the next generation...
I asked my dad what really counted in his life (when he was old). He said “being a husband & father. Nothing else is relevant.” After a 50 year stockbroking career most would be jealous of achieving (coming from the slums).
If it wasn’t for he & my Mum’s efforts none of that would have happened. So rather than feeble identity politics BS & failed political ideologies & victimhood, how about preparing to become great parents, capable of supporting the next generation & do one hell of a good job at it when you get the chance. After all “nothing else is relevant”, take my Dad’s word for it.
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Re: Multiculturalism Ruins Nations
Yeah, having a family is usually a healthier way to deal. We're taught in university by progressives that having children is selfish and bad for the environment though, plus having actual stable relationships is a foreign concept for many for a variety of reasons. Lol
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