Mafia 41 - Sid Meiers Civilizaton Mafia - Official Game Thread

[DoubtingThomas]

Quas taking the time to comment on every single detail is odd haven't seen him do this. are you playing differently because it's a different site?

[xorxes]

pretty sure he's only read the start of the game, and I did talk abt cfox a little? Cfox talked about me as well almost positive, and still that's not a reason to town read someone you're just saying they talked about two players they know

cfox hasn't said anything very useful all game that I can remember.

You had a very strong start which I liked, then petered out, then reappeared but too late to have an impact on EOD and you are doing pretty well again now, but it's the night, not when it counted.

[DoubtingThomas]

dt if you're town this game, I would treat jamie as you would treat phi's town game

acknowledge he's probably town then ignore all his reads o o f

if i am scum why would i treat jamie differently tho?

[DoubtingThomas]

pretty sure he's only read the start of the game, and I did talk abt cfox a little? Cfox talked about me as well almost positive, and still that's not a reason to town read someone you're just saying they talked about two players they know

cfox hasn't said anything very useful all game that I can remember.

You had a very strong start which I liked, then petered out, then reappeared but too late to have an impact on EOD and you are doing pretty well again now, but it's the night, not when it counted.

if you liked quas's start obviously we have a very different read on quas atm (partly cuz i am not caught up)

why did you like my entrance, excluding the fact that i gave you info about quas/crimson which can well be NAI

[xorxes]

if you liked quas's start obviously we have a very different read on quas atm (partly cuz i am not caught up)

I have never seen him play before, so I don't know his meta, but he was not afraid to state strongish opinions with reasonable justifications, which I take as a sign of towniness. I didn't like that he was not here when it mattered most though.

why did you like my entrance, excluding the fact that i gave you info about quas/crimson which can well be NAI

Most of your reads, and especially your read of Squigs agreed with mine :)

[brainbomb]

GM NOTE: 1 hour remains, Submit all actions to Tom or Myself if you havent yet

[rdrivera2005]

I won't be around at EON. I don't have the time or the will to make a big and useless realist.
So, if I die tonight lynch Squigs tomorrow.

[brainbomb]

ANCIENT ERA KARMA TALLY
Vecna 4
Jamiet99uk 3
Nepthys 3
RagingIke 1
LordQuas 1
Squiggs 1
crimsonfox 1

[xorxes]

There was no double vote, right? So I guess that means Sumeria is not in play or it's one of DT/damo.

[xorxes]

ANCIENT ERA KARMA TALLY
Vecna 4
Jamiet99uk 3
Nepthys 3
RagingIke 1
LordQuas 1
Squiggs 1
crimsonfox 1

I wish you would tell us who was giving those +1's...

[DoubtingThomas]

There was no double vote, right? So I guess that means Sumeria is not in play or it's one of DT/damo.

What u mean (didnt read rule tbh)

[brainbomb]

ANCIENT ERA KARMA TALLY
Vecna 4
Jamiet99uk 3
Nepthys 3
RagingIke 1
LordQuas 1
Squiggs 1
crimsonfox 1

I wish you would tell us who was giving those +1's...

Im on mobile so I dont know tbh. anyone can hover mouse over a +1 and see who.

[bozotheclown]

Right now CrimsonFox, dargorygel, DemonRHK, Nephthys, RagingIke, rdrivera, Vecna, worcej, and xorxes seem the most likely to be town, in my opinion.

DoubtingThomas, DrCJG, and ND have not said enough for me to have an opinion on them.

[worcej]

Unfortunately, Tuesdays have an afternoon meeting that starts @ 2:30 PST, so I will have to post this 20 minutes before EOD.

Knowing now that there is a mafia day chat, I looked more closely at interactions between players on D1. I arrive at the following assumptions on the scum team:

1. The first thing the scum did was most likely go to their QT to touch base and do some preliminary coordination.
2. This makes me disregard the notion that Jaime was not planned. With his study of the format, he could've easily had a message setup for the QT saying he was going to go off and be crazy-spaz Jaime. This makes me null/scum lean more than just write him off as town.
3. There was intentional non-coordination/consensus occurring by the mafia. I believe instead of coordinating, they would at best have only 2/5 of them pushing the same wagon. The other 3 would be spread out, possibly being a small bus until the end. The notable situations where I saw a group form on a player relatively close to each other were:
   • Damo+Jaime onto ND, early in D1
   • Damo+ND+Neph onto Jaime, almost half way through D1
   • Fox+myself onto bozo, 9 hours left of D1
   • xorxes+Vecna+Squigs onto Fox, 44 mins left of D1, all within 6 minutes (Squggles voted @ 00:38 left)
   • Vecna+ghug onto Fox, 10 and 7 minutes left each vote.
   • The EOD shenanigans - Jaime, xorxes, Demon, myself, Fox, and Squigs on ghug. Vecna flipping back to Fox was odd at the time FWIW...
4. A scum probably lurked and was active in the QT, but did not post much here. To me, that is Damo, ND, Demon, darg, DrCJG, and DT.
5. That there was for sure a scum viewing the thread without posting, utilizing their role PM link to the QT. I believe bozo, rdr, and Ike were the ones caught doing this at some points of the day.

Running through the list, the frequent names in those lists are Damo and ND. Vecna was also up there if you include the EOD move from ghug to Foxcastle, which I still am trying to understand if his explanation of why is legit or not.

And for the plebs who skim - TL;DR my short scum list is ND/Damo with Vecna and (kinda) Jaime as my only scum leans. The rest are just nulls until further actions/reveals.

[worcej]

And yes, I am 10 minutes late to said meeting because I wanted to post this.

[xorxes]

There was no double vote, right? So I guess that means Sumeria is not in play or it's one of DT/damo.

What u mean (didnt read rule tbh)

Numibia's vote counts double on days 1 and 2. You and damo didn't vote.

[xorxes]

There was no double vote, right? So I guess that means Sumeria is not in play or it's one of DT/damo.

What u mean (didnt read rule tbh)

Numibia's vote counts double on days 1 and 2. You and damo didn't vote.

*Sumeria

[xorxes]

In case I'm killed and janitored, my civ is not very important anyway.

I don't have any strong reads either yet. I would lynch Fox, Squigs or a lurker if it was up to me.

[Nephthys]

DoubtingThomas

Nothing

CJG

Nothing too much as well

Ezio

Townreads Worcej/Xorx/Ghug/Jamie
- Conf Town

Dargorygel

Makes an anti-+1 stance.
From a scum perspective I think they would be worried about power thief/commuter.
From a town perspective I think we were worried about a Godfather mainly.
Therefore, if Darg is scum then I think it’s a safe bet that PT/commuter are not on the scumteam.

Suggests a mass claim. I personally see this as anti-town especially with the number of roles that aren’t present.

He rides a pressure vote the entire way to EOD (LQ). I think here it would be very easy for him, as scum, to hide among the EOD chaos by not participating.

- Scumlean

@Darg why did you not change your vote, if you were to change it who would you have voted for and why, or were you happy to lynch LQ

RHK

Posts a very bland reads list which indicates that I made a “giant” post about +1s. This personally stood out to me as potential buddying. I also find it a little odd with his reads on LQ/CFox they just feel odd. Provides only instinct for placing CFox above LQ, while I don’t inherently scumread him for it I think it gives a possible connection between Cfox and RHK.

Then comes back with a “read” on CFox that he isn’t prepared to go into “yet”.

He also asks Cfox about the karma then a few posts later states that “He also asked about the +1 system” why would you ask the guy who is also unsure about a system? I think this, tied up with the desire to shoot CFox is a weak attempt at bussing. Possibly even told on the QT to stop it hence why it kinda just dissolved.

This last one is quite reachy but he votes for Ghug thinking he has tied the vote. I had claimed 30mins or so before EOD that I would switch my vote as needed to prevent a tie. I think this may have been a way to try and tie it thinking that I wouldn’t change from the wagon I was on. Note that for this to have any validity, FoxC must have been town as well.

- Scumlean – Strengthened CFox turns out to be scum OR FoxC turns out to be town

@RHK are you willing to go into your case re CFox now?
ND
Not really anything here
Damo666
Doesn’t really offer anything either…
- Townlean as it just seems like standard damo
@Damo What made Fox seem scummy to you

Worcej

This guy is confusing me. On one hand I really don’t like his night play but then he actually has some decent offerings. I like his initial longer post and think his point on Vecna is actually pretty solid except that it wouldn’t quite make him TC although most people would likely townread due to lack of scum motivation. His logic regarding the gunshot is sound although that is possible to fake. His logic for his vote in the same post was rather good though.

-- Snipped--

That being said, of the wagons, I am inclined to ##vote bozo. I don't think Neph is being inherently scum like others do and the fact RDR points to bozo as playing scum, since he was scum with him last, has me more concerned. ghug seems like a non-wagon, and as I stated would be one of the ideal shot targets, so not going to plant my vote there.

Overall I think I’m actually gonna hit a townlean here. That one dodgy post is not enough for me right now. I’m sorry worcej, I got a little carried away.

Rdrivera2005

I actually quite like his play so far. He questions bozo about his vote on me then comes back to it later. I don’t think that this is something scum would do in this manner especially if they were scum buddies. His logic also seems sound. The only issue I have is that he starts to question the bozo wagon. If he was scum knowing that bozo would flip town this may have been textbook deferring.

- Townlean – Cannot be scum with bozo

Squiggs44

I think his post about not wanting to role solve is significant. I don’t think that he came in with the right reason (scum also don’t have this information) and I don’t know how to read it at this stage.
He picks up on Crimson possible buddying Quas which is similar to my findings. He didn’t however, push it. Again he shows a fear of +1s which is very possible of a scum knowing there is no Godfather.

In his read list he votes for his 3rd/4th top scumreads (RHK/Fox) but not his top two (CFox/Damo). He changes his vote after two minutes to Fox to put him in the lead. In the last second though with no explanation he switches to ghug, someone whom he wasn’t scumreading at all.

- Scumread, strengthened by CFox being scum and scum not having conditional roles

Foxcastle

Overall I am town leaning here. I don’t see too much content realistically. Although I do find the lack of a self-preservation vote to be more indicative of town although I’m not too sure. I think the doc claim was interesting. Again I think it was odd not to claim doctor as that would have had more impact. His whole EOD just seems defeated/resigned tbh.

- Weak townlean

@Fox why did you vote for Squigs over Bozo (at phase -11mins) when the bozo wagon had more voters and you claimed to have a stronger read on him.

CrimsonFox

I’ve already come forwards saying that CFox was asking for +1s a little too hard for my liking. However, I hear he just likes to shitpost so I am somewhat invalidating that argument myself.

Regardless, he is relatively light on content and other people have already alluded to his potential buddying etc.

Many of us have gut scumreads on him.

Scumread – stronger if RHK/Squigs is scum

RagingIke

I personally didn’t like his choice for the shot but it didn’t end up too badly, we got some valuable information. Gave Ezio warning about the shot though and a chance to explain.

Townlean

@Ike what was it that made you shoot Ezio?

Xorx

I like his play so far, questions a range of stuff and provides somewhat decent logic in general. He’s probably one of my stronger town reads.

Bozo

Comes straight in asking about the rules and where they were listed but doesn’t point out the mafia day chat, while not scum indicative it certainly isn’t pro town like Jamie going on about the calendar thing.

I agree that some of his earlier comments are a little off although I want to add one more. In his vote for me his case rests on not liking my meta reads of Jamie/Xorx. This just seems a little bit of a push to me to not only get a vote down but also just plain odd. He also then tries to keep the discussion going when I try to shut it down. Perhaps trying to detract from actual solving.

Comes back with 13 mins to play and votes for Fox over himself when there were 3 votes on him. His wagon had been slowing down and peaked 6 hrs before EOD at 5 votes, it was then down to three. Perhaps I’m the only one but it seems pretty clear he wasn’t going to be lynched.

- Scumread, stronger is FoxC is town

LordQuas

Pretty decent towny vibes so far. Also I’m running low on time to get this finished before EON.

Vecna

Page 8 references something scum would do without a Godfather, potentially setting up incase it turns out there was a town Brazil? (Rip Ezio)
I want to know more why we shouldn’t be lynching RHK when I don’t really see a reason not to.
Overall not much else, continues with light pressure on bozo but has doubts near EOD and pulls his vote. Claims that ghug is a scum with 10 mins to go but calls the wagon stupid.

Scumlean

Jamie

Town, he’s crazy and got a little too heated although has calmed down (solid job I must say, it feels more productive now) and doing alright.


Final thought – Crazy theory

What if worcej had a point about Vecna false claiming to try and get some town points. With a mafia day chat it is possible that Ike could have been scum and planned to claim as well. With Ike being confirmed we are a lot more likely to believe Vecna’s claim. Therefore if one of the roles scum then I would give the other a few extra scum points.

Scum
CFox
Squigs
RHK
Bozo
Vecna
Darg

Due to the connections I pointed out, I believe that CFox is out best next lynch.
If he is town then we go Squigs or FoxC

[brainbomb]

(Sitting around a bonfire in the middle of the senate hall, it is night)

Queen Elizabeth: Should we really be burning things in here? It's starting to get smoky.

Enrico Dondalo: Yea, it'll be fine, plenty of space in here. Don't be a greenthumb. I was thinking maybe it would help to go around the room and everyone says the first thing thats on their mind. Maybe that would help us find America’s evil friends.

Russel Crowe: I am fond of Pigs.

Catherine: I am fond of horses.

Darius: You and me, we come from different worlds, I came from Persia and you look like a little girl, well there's nothing I can do, Im death proof until day twooooo

Enrico: We invited Darius Rucker instead of Darius of Persia. Of course, yea. Great job whoever sent out the invites guys.

Kamehameha: I long for the ocean air, and the sun upon my face.

Catherine: Mighty warrior, you have been silent all this time. What is your power?

Kamehameha: I travel places, among the islands.

Catherine: He seems pure. And handsome. No one shall touch him.

Kamehameha: Ohana

Catherine: Ohana?

Kamehameha: Ohana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind.

Catherine de Medici: I was thinking when we find America’s cronies why don't we just lock them up in the jail across the street?

Enrico: It's been too long since we sent Cleopatra back in time. Something must have happened. Maybe we should send another person back to go find her and help.

Catherine: No one gets left behind

Catherine de Medici: Ohio

Kamehameha: Ohana

Peyton Manning: Omaha

Enrico: Seriously? Okay, right now, who the fuck made our guest list?

Montezuma: I will go back in time. I will sacrifice everyone until I find evil America.

Enrico: Well, yea, we want you to go back in time. I don't think we want you to sacrifice everyone?

Montezuma: I will take these trump steaks, these maga hats, and travel back to the classical era. I will find America, and I will sacrifice them in blood ritual.

Enrico: Is everyone okay with him sacrificing America… in a cryptic blood ritual? Seems a bit strange, I really dont think America is just going to sacrifice themself for this. Im kinda confused how that would work?

(Montezuma straps himself into the empty time travel chair)

Montezuma: Were coming home to Mother Mexico.

☆~ Classical Era ~☆
(Meanwhile in the Classical Era, Central Mexico, 150 AD)

Montezuma: (Awakens)

Military Advisor: My King, terrible news! The countryside is on fire, barbarians are everywhere. Something has gone horribly wrong!

Montezuma: Put all our money into military!

Science Advisor: Sir, were poorly educated, the rest of Mesoamerica is far more advanced than we are. We must research!

Montezuma: We must find America.

Military Advisor: We are America? I don't understand.

Montezuma: Many hundreds of years from now, Europeans will settle north of us and form some nation of freedom and eventually they'll oppress us. They will destroy everyone and everything. We must prepare the world now. Give out these MAGA hats and sirloins to everyone you can find.

Military Advisor: make America great again?

Montezuma: Yes. When Spain arrives to conquer us we must be ready.

Science Advisor: Spain? What is Spain?

Montezuma: (Rips his science advisors heart out and it's still beating) Spain will do this to us someday. they will eat our hearts. we must eat our hearts first!! (takes a huge bloody bite)

Cultural Advisor: America is already great lord king. We have slaves, farmland, livestock, and Tenochtitlan the mighty gem of our empire.

Montezuma: Were going to sacrifice people like him. (wipes his face) And then we will dig a giant moat around Mexico so America can never build a big giant wall.

Cultural Advisor: Okay, that sounds… interesting. Not sure I understand but okay!

(A messenger arrives)

Messenger: Rdrivera has died! they were Dido of Carthage, The Town Hider!!

Savages did this!


Montezuma: Are we sure it was Savages? America is on the loose, and could be out killing people too!

Messenger: I suppose it could have been American savages? We found the body hiding in the closet. But the countryside is littered with dead Spaniards, Carthaginians, and Byzantines.

Montezuma: Describe the destruction!

Messenger: ummm, bodies everywhere? Screaming. Lots of blood? Scalpers.

Montezuma: So it was for tickets!

Messenger: What?

Montezuma: How did you get this information this fast?

Messenger: I don't know this isn't supposed to actually make sense, it's just a mafia game.

Montezuma: Okay.

Messenger: Oh Yea, uh…
DrCGJC has died he was Theodora of Byzantium a Vanilla Town.

I forgot to mention that.

Montezuma: Say that again in case bots are listening.

Messenger: Xorxes has died, they were Queen Isabella the Town Medium!

We don't know who destroyed who….

Montezuma: ? This is horse shit. So many deaths and I didnt get to sacrifice any of them. What is wrong with you? Do you not understand the urgency here? We must sacrifice tons of people, and eat their hearts for information. I must know who destroyed whom!! Go kill lots of people so we can advance culturally.

Messenger: I don't know lord king. I'm not even sure why it matters.. but how does sacrificing everyone get us culture?

Montezuma: Tell me who killed Isabella and who killed Dido, and who killed Theodora!

Military Advisor: You will answer lord kings questions and stop asking ones yourself or I will fire these arrows through your heart!!

Messenger: I don't really know man, chill, don't shoot the messenger.

☆~ CLASSICAL ERA ~☆
Day Two has begun