Mafia Invitational - Welcome to Wakanda

[Foxcastle]

Rdrivera and Bozo have been scum recently and proven themselves very capable threats, but they are definitely not alone on this list. Ezio looks like the only likely lurker.

What is this supposed to mean? What am I supposed to learn from this?

Sorry I didn't catch this earlier, Squigs.

You are supposed to learn that Rdrivera and Bozo were both scum recently (in the game I ran) and that my assessment of their play in that game is that they are strong scum players. Also, there are other people I consider strong scum players on the list, but apparently I don't have a good enough opinion formed of them in this game yet to call them out directly, either because my meta of them is weak, or because I have a bias toward commenting on recent events (such as M40).

Also, I expect a fairly consistent level of play from all players except Ezio, who has tended to lurk in previous games. So what do you think it means that he's currently one of the higher posters?

[Balki Bartokomous]

Also, it's odd being in a game where everyone is pretty easily categorized as a threat on both sides of the game.

I find the use of the word “threat” here is be slightly scum indicative. Ezio is referring to both alignments, so it could just be a way of wording this thought economically, but I think scum is more likely to use a word like “threat” when referring to a townie who is good at sorting scum.

As a result, keeping around good scumhunters is significantly more important in this game than in a normal game, and I want to make sure everyone is on the same page with this.

Ezio’s line about “I want to make sure everyone is on the same page” seems a bit pretend. Like, if I’m Ezio, I’m not really expecting everyone to say “Yeah, that’s right, I agree,” and I’m not expecting to convince anyone to prioritize killing people who are less good at scumhunting. And unsurprisingly, there is no follow through from Ezio to try to convince anyone who has taken a different view. So “I want to make sure everyone is on the same page” feels more fabricated than real. It reads to me as saying: “Hey guys, I really do believe what I’m saying, and I really do want other people to believe it too. No really, this is for real.”

Also, the fact that Ezio opens by proposing a plan that, as Ezio himself said right away, would prioritize lynching Ezio, seems like it could be an artificial grab for town cred. “Hey guys, look over here — I don’t mind being lynched. I even proposed a way of prioritizing lunches that puts me in jeopardy! I clearly don’t care if I survive. No really.”

I think Ezio knows that this idea he puts forward is not going to be widely adopted, and so it looks more like performance art to me than sincere discussion.

[Foxcastle]

Hey Flum, can you give us your case on Tom? You've been circling him for a bit now and something about him seems to have caught your attention...

[Foxcastle]

My take on Ezio is less nuanced than Balki's and basically comes down to: this is a different Ezio than we usually see. If he's town, why is he putting in effort that he hasn't put in in his previous games. If he's scum, why is he taking a risk at standing out with an plan that's uncharacteristic for him?

##VOTE EZIO

[Vecna]

So you townread squigs, scumread Damian.

The top two wagons are squigs vs Damian, and you vote Ezio? Instead of trying to outpace the wagon on your townread?

And youre calling me bad for scumreading you?

I disagree with Vecna’s analysis above. He is suggesting that rdrivera should be voting to protect a townread wagon at an early stage when the townread is in no real danger. And Vecna suggests that rdrivera’s failure to vote Damian is so strange that it is scum indicative.

I also feel like the way Vecna phrases the last sentence is somewhat scum-indicative for Vecna: “And youre calling me bad for scumreading you.” The statement assumes AI without explaining it and the statement focuses on Vecna’s own alignment.

Yeah, this was also the sort of reaction I was expecting to receive from (town) Rdrivera, since I honestly dont think ive done -anything- worth townreading so far this game. Instead, he somehow thinks he can read me already (one of two people), and that my mediocre attack of him is just me being bad and unreasonable town.

The real reason for being suspicious of the Rdrivera slot is that there so far have been very few genuine responses from him. This instance just further makes me think that it is quite likely he is a baddy.

[Tom Bombadil]

My take on Ezio is less nuanced than Balki's and basically comes down to: this is a different Ezio than we usually see. If he's town, why is he putting in effort that he hasn't put in in his previous games. If he's scum, why is he taking a risk at standing out with an plan that's uncharacteristic for him?

##VOTE EZIO

Foxy, have you considered the smaller game size could impact the tendencies of Ezio or others?

[Foxcastle]

My take on Ezio is less nuanced than Balki's and basically comes down to: this is a different Ezio than we usually see. If he's town, why is he putting in effort that he hasn't put in in his previous games. If he's scum, why is he taking a risk at standing out with an plan that's uncharacteristic for him?

##VOTE EZIO

Foxy, have you considered the smaller game size could impact the tendencies of Ezio or others?

I hadn't thought about that, but it's a good point. Maybe if there are fewer people to blend in with, the utility of keeping quiet is diminished. That might explain his talkativeness, but I still find that he proposed a plan like he did to be odd.

[damian]

I can’t help but disagree with your assessment of Ezio. This is exactly what he looked like in the game I played with him as town. I’ve never actually seen his scum play. So I’m hesitant to read too far into the meta, but seems NAI to me.

Had a chance to a bit of rereading this morning. I’m starting to see what other people are talking about when it comes to Squigs. The inquisitiveness feels forced, and there are votes, like the one for bozo that don’t match up.

##vote Squigs

[Vecna]

So what do you think about Balki's argument about Ezio?

Also, why does squigs vote on Bozo not hold up? Do you still feel that way if I were to told you Bozo only manages to act very robotic and flat as scum?

[Vecna]

(Because to me, that post just really felt like you were searching for reasons to vote your counter-wagon, instead of getting to that place through an actual thought process).

[damian]

I hadn’t thought of the first one before. Re: use of the word threat. It’s an argument. But not a strong one.

The second point is the exact point I tried to make after Ezio posted his theory. So naturally I agree. Proposing a plan where you are a better lynch target does feel weird for town and he never really addressed that.

I’d buy your argument re: the bozo vote if Squig and either mentioned bozo being flat or robotic at the time or had made the vote when there were several more bozo posts to go off of. I do feel it is the weakest part of the argument against him, as it was a pressure vote that got Bozo talking. But I can see how it wasn’t entirely consistent with the rest of his play.

[Vecna]

[Squigs44]

At this point I don't have a solid scumread, but some things I feel as scummy. People that strike me as possibly scum are Damian and Ezio at this point, with a special mention to Bozo.
Considering Damian is already on the lead ##vote Ezio

I have town vibes from Squigs and Vecna and mostly null on the others.

This is so vague. Rdrivera usually has detail in his posts, even on day 1

[Squigs44]

I suggest that we adopt a new policy: vote for who you think is most likely to flip scum. At least until the last hour. It’s hard to see where we really are with so many people taking it upon themselves to apply “pressure.” Also, if you give away your secret — “I’m just doing this to apply pressure,” rather than “I’m doing this because I think X is most likely to flip scum” — it doesn’t really apply any “pressure.”

I pressure voted both Fox and Bozo who had both posted only two or three times, and within about an hour, they both started making more posts. Pressure votes work Balki.

[Squigs44]

Rdrivera and Bozo have been scum recently and proven themselves very capable threats, but they are definitely not alone on this list. Ezio looks like the only likely lurker.

What is this supposed to mean? What am I supposed to learn from this?

Sorry I didn't catch this earlier, Squigs.

You are supposed to learn that Rdrivera and Bozo were both scum recently (in the game I ran) and that my assessment of their play in that game is that they are strong scum players. Also, there are other people I consider strong scum players on the list, but apparently I don't have a good enough opinion formed of them in this game yet to call them out directly, either because my meta of them is weak, or because I have a bias toward commenting on recent events (such as M40).

Also, I expect a fairly consistent level of play from all players except Ezio, who has tended to lurk in previous games. So what do you think it means that he's currently one of the higher posters?

You literally just reposted what you said earlier, but with more words. I get you are afraid of scum Rdrivera and Bozo and that you think Ezio lurks. But how does this help us as town? Why did you feel the need to post this? Or was it just an observation you were making?

As far as Ezio and lurking goes, I think the first game I played with him, he was one of the top posters until he died. I'm pretty sure that was tiny hunt. He was town there.

[ghug]

Add Balki and Vecna to the list of people I dislike

Can some of you obvtown please?

[Squigs44]

Also, it's odd being in a game where everyone is pretty easily categorized as a threat on both sides of the game.

I find the use of the word “threat” here is be slightly scum indicative. Ezio is referring to both alignments, so it could just be a way of wording this thought economically, but I think scum is more likely to use a word like “threat” when referring to a townie who is good at sorting scum.

As a result, keeping around good scumhunters is significantly more important in this game than in a normal game, and I want to make sure everyone is on the same page with this.

Ezio’s line about “I want to make sure everyone is on the same page” seems a bit pretend. Like, if I’m Ezio, I’m not really expecting everyone to say “Yeah, that’s right, I agree,” and I’m not expecting to convince anyone to prioritize killing people who are less good at scumhunting. And unsurprisingly, there is no follow through from Ezio to try to convince anyone who has taken a different view. So “I want to make sure everyone is on the same page” feels more fabricated than real. It reads to me as saying: “Hey guys, I really do believe what I’m saying, and I really do want other people to believe it too. No really, this is for real.”

Also, the fact that Ezio opens by proposing a plan that, as Ezio himself said right away, would prioritize lynching Ezio, seems like it could be an artificial grab for town cred. “Hey guys, look over here — I don’t mind being lynched. I even proposed a way of prioritizing lunches that puts me in jeopardy! I clearly don’t care if I survive. No really.”

I think Ezio knows that this idea he puts forward is not going to be widely adopted, and so it looks more like performance art to me than sincere discussion.

The thing about the use of the word "threat" and "on the same page" is reaching to me. People use all sorts of different language all the time. The rest of the argument about him not following up and possibly looking for towncred I follow though.

[Squigs44]

My take on Ezio is less nuanced than Balki's and basically comes down to: this is a different Ezio than we usually see. If he's town, why is he putting in effort that he hasn't put in in his previous games. If he's scum, why is he taking a risk at standing out with an plan that's uncharacteristic for him?

##VOTE EZIO

Foxy, have you considered the smaller game size could impact the tendencies of Ezio or others?

I hadn't thought about that, but it's a good point. Maybe if there are fewer people to blend in with, the utility of keeping quiet is diminished. That might explain his talkativeness, but I still find that he proposed a plan like he did to be odd.

All of Foxcastles's dialogue on Ezio just seems wrong to me, like he is looking for a way to vote Ezio without stepping on anyone's toes. He keeps agreeing with people on opposite sides of the argument.

[Fluminator]

Ghug, can you be on my team at least one of these games?

[Squigs44]

Bozo is still sucking it up this game. He has flat out refused to give out any reads except "Squigs voting for me sucks". I'm not gonna let Bozo play the same game he did in M40.