MINI MAFIA IV GAME THREAD

[foodcoats]

I have rather done a re-read of Damo666. Here is the rather brief summary, and my rather intelligent findings:

- Starts with a vote on Brain.

- Engages with my questioning of ThdFrance and comments about the nuances of the flavour wording. Calls ThdFrance unintelligence in the same sentence as mis-spelling the word "agency". Lel. (p3)

- Votes Xorxes.

- Asks which PRs we would like to be in the game.

- Unvotes from Xorxes in response to Xorxes voting for him.

- Says all his votes so far were joke votes.

- Continues to talk about the potential town PRs.

- Throws his vote onto Worcej without comment or explanation. When questioned, explains that this is because Worcej used the word "rather". Seriously, go back to page 6 and look at this shit. Damo's reason for voting Worcej was because he used the word "rather". BS.

- Comes up with some weird statistical analysis of the usefulness of no-lynching.

- Encourages me to vote for Worcej. When I ask why, he repeats the thing about the word "rather".

- Unvotes Worcej and votes me because I was checking when EoD was.


Conclusions:

1. Damo was really rather quick to un-vote Xorxes and say he was joking, as soon as Xorxes responded to his vote. Could Damo be rather worried that he had upset his team-mate by making him a potential wagon? If Xorxes flips scum that really rather implicates Damo for me.

2. His reason for voting Worcej was, rather amazingly, even worse than Bozo's rather shitty reason. Worcej said "rather" and is therefore scum? Give us a break.

3. His vote for me is rather bizzzzzarrrrre and he hasn't explained it.

This argument against damo seems very similar to my argument against him in M40, right down to the D1 "joke vote" on xorxes.

Bozo I saw you vote Jamie just above and I had come across this post from Jamie in reading d1 again and it looked weird. Jamie was the only person to have a lengthy argument about why to vote damo and then moved off damo at the last minute to vote for xorxes. It's not a great argument against damo in retrospect and everyone else (but me lol) seemed unhappy about voting damo.

Jaime why did you switch votes four minutes before end of day when you had this long reasoning for damo but nothing similar for xorxes that I could see?

[worcej]

Worecj - A better filler than concrete

Day 1 - 17 posts
Night 1 - 6 posts
Day 2 - 5 posts (so far)

Day 1
5 posts - pure filler
5 posts - claiming town/that debate (essentially filler as we learnt nothing)
He provided no new thoughts, not even reposting. He literally only defended himself and put 1 post into the hypo claiming.

Night 1
If I'm being EXTREMELY lenient I can give him credit for one content post.

I'm wondering, there's a few people who played up that day 1 is slow or random or whatever, and some people with personal life claims. From a meta perspective are these worth investigating? Do people use these excuses to scumlurk?

It's hard to say because it is understandable for people to have RL issues to be around at certain times. Like I said, D1 is usually a shit show and then from that point on, you start getting better analysis on what people are saying and doing.

Day 2 - so far
Asks a question re vig shot, asks about BLAM and talks about not wanting to lynch lurkers.

I can not, for the life of me. Find any trace of scumhunting in here and in general find this contribution to not really trying to solve anything.

Worecj - Strong scumlean

I generally don't give a F#^k about posting on night phases, unless it is near EON (which I try to be on for), if that makes you feel any better.

I am also curious on the last second move by Jaime from damo to Xorxes, it was pretty shit after an in-depth and lengthy portrayal of damo as scum. His reasoning? Nothing. But the biggest thing that is shit to me was that he did it after this:

If the choices are damo and xorxes I will vote to tie it deliberately.

Why??

Lynches are informative. Information helps town.

He literally made it easier, in the last minute mind you, for bozo to possibly tie the vote, because the vote between the two became 4-3 with bozo able to place it on xorxes for the tie, which I imagine he would then leverage to further portray bozo as scum.

Does anyone not find this to be really particularly bad?

##vote Jaime

You owe us some explanations, sir.

[worcej]

Can someone elaborate on the bozo case for me? I re-read him and am just a little confused with how he is being so strongly read.

I actually don't think he is scum and have a town-read on him because of it. I think tunneling me is actually more indicative of town than scum.

[worcej]

Also, with the light of Jaime - I literally think Jaime was setting up bozo to take the noose for causing a tie.

And TBH, Jaime was also pocketing me like a mofo on D1... which I think was to play more into getting me to trust Jaime and feel confidence in him being town instead of actually dissecting bozo's argument.

It's a shit feeling, which I am prone to do, but fuck Jaime strikes me as scum...

[brainbomb]

well shit foods not scum in any of that. ok
##Vote Tdhfrance

[brainbomb]

dont think a new player could do what he did there as scum ever

[foodcoats]

Also, with the light of Jaime - I literally think Jaime was setting up bozo to take the noose for causing a tie.

And TBH, Jaime was also pocketing me like a mofo on D1... which I think was to play more into getting me to trust Jaime and feel confidence in him being town instead of actually dissecting bozo's argument.

It's a shit feeling, which I am prone to do, but fuck Jaime strikes me as scum...

Right now my vote for thd is to drive answers, to be honest I'm more inclined to read Jaime as scum after re reading the whole thread last night and will probably change votes soon depending on thd and jaime's press. It's mostly on that damo case jaime made followed by an unexplained switch, which feels like scum driving the agenda then recusal once possibly 4 town were on damo for plausible deniability. I will try to compare worcej and jaime.

well shit foods not scum in any of that. ok
##Vote Tdhfrance

Why? I specifically said how I am worried thd is town and IRL business is condemning them. Am I not even scummier now by your yardstick? Are you scum brain?

I'm worried that xorxes and Neph also aligned ideas about CJG and thd to me to maybe pocket me and I'm strongly suspicious of thd wagoning now when thd can't defend themself.

[foodcoats]

Huge pivot for me here but:

PLAYER LIST IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER
1. bozotheclown - strong town
2. brainbomb - possible scum
3. damo666 - townclear
4. DrCJG - medium town
5. foodcoats - N/A
6. jamiet99uk - strong scum
7. Nephthys - neutral, slight scum
8. RagingIke - townclear
9. thdfrance - neutral, slight town
10. worcej - neutral
11. Xorxes - neutral, slight scum

[xorxes]

Reread day 1 and now I feel like bozo, CJG and Neph all had discussions about strategic frameworks (hypoing vs. Pure scum hunting) that were really about giving a better frame of reference for town and building more info for us. I think that changes a bit how I feel about CJG and actually gives me a read of some sort on bozo. I didn't understand it at all really at the time but it clicks now.

Although obviously scum can jump in on these as well to appear helpful. Bozo was really into the idea and that makes me lean more town for bozo.

Those discussions tell us zero about their alignment (except it's unlikely they are both scum because spending so much time discussing mechanics between two scum I don't think I've ever seen). That kind of "contribution" is the easiest way for scum to appear involved when in fact they are not helping in any way to find scum. Town also participate in those discussions, so it means nothing one way or the other.

Much more interesting to me was DrCJG fabricating an excuse to scumread people out of their lack of interest in those discussions when he knows full well that that means nothing. So ##VOTE DrCJG

And @thdfrance, we need you to come and tell us who your teammates are.

[Jamiet99uk]

xorxes has somewhat alleviated my suspicion of him for now, and brainbomb seems more town like, so my preferred lynch pool is down to Jamie, thdfrance, and worcej.

Here are my complete reads:
town lean: DrCJG, foodcoats, Nephthys
neutral: xorxes, brainbomb
scum lean: Jamie, thdfrance, worcej

My first choice is Jamie, since he has failed to address a number of my questions.

##VOTE Jamiet99uk

What are your unanswered questions? I will do my best to answer.

[Jamiet99uk]

well shit foods not scum in any of that. ok
##Vote Tdhfrance

Note - the bot has not picked up this vote because you spelled it wrong.

It should be ##Vote Thdfrance.

Like that ^ you see?

[Jamiet99uk]

Jaime why did you switch votes four minutes before end of day when you had this long reasoning for damo but nothing similar for xorxes that I could see?

- I have already explained that I was persuaded Xorxes was scum after reading the case posted by DrCRG in particular, and also Brainbomb's observations. I did not need to re-post a long Xorxes case as it would effectively have just been a cut-and-paste of the one DrCRG had posted, which I agreed with.

Notice that I had been voting Xorxes for a considerable part of D1. I switched to Damo666 for the reasons I explained. However, as EoD approached, I was becoming increasingly concerned that Damo was not present to defend himself. I also noted Bozo's comments about how Damo had exhibited very similar behaviour as town in another recent game - so it was indeed plausible that Damo wasn't scum, but just an idiot playing really badly (as turned out to be the case). I wasn't the only one scumreading Xorxes at that point and I felt he was a viable lynch.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Brainbomb: What is your case on Bozo, the clown?

[Jamiet99uk]

Also, with the light of Jaime - I literally think Jaime was setting up bozo to take the noose for causing a tie.

And TBH, Jaime was also pocketing me like a mofo on D1... which I think was to play more into getting me to trust Jaime and feel confidence in him being town instead of actually dissecting bozo's argument.

It's a shit feeling, which I am prone to do, but fuck Jaime strikes me as scum...

I made it very clear that my posts about you were not intended as a defence of you. I made this point several times. I was attacking Bozo's logic because it was shit (which it was).

[Jamiet99uk]

Also Worcej could you learn to spell my fucking name?

It's not difficult.

##CALL GM - Worcej is voting for someone called "Jaime", not me. Please ensure you take this into account when doing your vote counts.

[Jamiet99uk]

Banana Chemise, do you have any more questions?

[Jamiet99uk]

I still think Xorxes is the right lynch.

##VOTE XORXES

[bozotheclown]

xorxes has somewhat alleviated my suspicion of him for now, and brainbomb seems more town like, so my preferred lynch pool is down to Jamie, thdfrance, and worcej.

Here are my complete reads:
town lean: DrCJG, foodcoats, Nephthys
neutral: xorxes, brainbomb
scum lean: Jamie, thdfrance, worcej

My first choice is Jamie, since he has failed to address a number of my questions.

##VOTE Jamiet99uk

What are your unanswered questions? I will do my best to answer.

Here is the post you did not respond to:

The problem with today's result is that it shows Damo is just rather bad at the game, which will make him rather hard to read when he really is scum.

I would rather have lynched Xorxes but there we go.

@Brainbomb: Do you still suspect Xorxes? Would you vote for him tomorrow? Do you want us to do a BLAM?

Weren't you scum with damo is a game? It sounds like you are making an excuse for scum reading damo. If you preferred to lynch xorxes, why didn't you make a case against him? Why did you wait until EOD to move your vote back to xorxes, and why did you use an invalid format when you voted for xorxes?

[foodcoats]

Reread day 1 and now I feel like bozo, CJG and Neph all had discussions about strategic frameworks (hypoing vs. Pure scum hunting) that were really about giving a better frame of reference for town and building more info for us. I think that changes a bit how I feel about CJG and actually gives me a read of some sort on bozo. I didn't understand it at all really at the time but it clicks now.

Although obviously scum can jump in on these as well to appear helpful. Bozo was really into the idea and that makes me lean more town for bozo.

Those discussions tell us zero about their alignment (except it's unlikely they are both scum because spending so much time discussing mechanics between two scum I don't think I've ever seen). That kind of "contribution" is the easiest way for scum to appear involved when in fact they are not helping in any way to find scum. Town also participate in those discussions, so it means nothing one way or the other.

Much more interesting to me was DrCJG fabricating an excuse to scumread people out of their lack of interest in those discussions when he knows full well that that means nothing. So ##VOTE DrCJG

And @thdfrance, we need you to come and tell us who your teammates are.

DrCJG voted for you and worcej who have been repeatedly scumread. Especially you, you've been voted for by 5 people I believe.

Like I said I see Dr as trying to build a strategy. Re-reading your posts xorxes I noticed that they seem reasonable and intelligent but they don't actually advance anything or build a consistent narrative. So there is literally no difference between your read of DrCJG and my read of you. That said, I don't yet know if I'm more convinced that scum drive agendas, or avoid them.

What do you think of Jamie?

[foodcoats]

Jaime why did you switch votes four minutes before end of day when you had this long reasoning for damo but nothing similar for xorxes that I could see?

- I have already explained that I was persuaded Xorxes was scum after reading the case posted by DrCRG in particular, and also Brainbomb's observations. I did not need to re-post a long Xorxes case as it would effectively have just been a cut-and-paste of the one DrCRG had posted, which I agreed with.

Notice that I had been voting Xorxes for a considerable part of D1. I switched to Damo666 for the reasons I explained. However, as EoD approached, I was becoming increasingly concerned that Damo was not present to defend himself. I also noted Bozo's comments about how Damo had exhibited very similar behaviour as town in another recent game - so it was indeed plausible that Damo wasn't scum, but just an idiot playing really badly (as turned out to be the case). I wasn't the only one scumreading Xorxes at that point and I felt he was a viable lynch.

Your timeline checks out but you voted for others as much as or more than xorxes if I'm reading the bot statistics well.

xorxes argues CJG is not doing anything useful and I see xorxes that way, too. Why do you believe CJG and not xorxes?