Mafia XL - A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum

[flash2015]

##Vote DrCJG

This claim is to throw people off of scumhunting or to try to force a PR mislynch. Coming so late in the day makes me think at least one, if not both the leading wagons are scum and they're trying to take the heat off into me vs. one of the the useless roles.

Flash or Damo is driver at this point I would assume. DrC is the sacrifice for them to get me. So they have a drive left, DrC counters for the chance they win the CC war and get me lynched, and worst case they drive and kill me, knowing I have the box and it can't save me.

Fuck.

I think this is very likely.

When DrCJG made his claim, Damo was the clear lynch target with 5 (I only had 3 votes). The only person he realistically could have been saving here was damo.

But it doesn't make sense for him to do that. It means a guaranteed lynch for two scum instead of potentially only losing one (i.e. if we lynch Demon and he rolls town, the next two lynches would be DrCJG and damo). I can't believe the good DrCJG would make that call:

##VOTE DemonRHK

[DrCJG]

##Vote DrCJG

This claim is to throw people off of scumhunting or to try to force a PR mislynch. Coming so late in the day makes me think at least one, if not both the leading wagons are scum and they're trying to take the heat off into me vs. one of the the useless roles.

Flash or Damo is driver at this point I would assume. DrC is the sacrifice for them to get me. So they have a drive left, DrC counters for the chance they win the CC war and get me lynched, and worst case they drive and kill me, knowing I have the box and it can't save me.

Fuck.

Interesting that you don't include rdr or ghug in this who were also at 2 votes.

Per fox's VC in post in #2650 rdr didn't any votes, why are you lying about the votecount, trying to take advantage of peterbot being down? Damo and flash are taking a lot of the pressure atm. Are you saying ghug and rdr are your scumbuddies?

I was basing off his previous vote count... but by all means... please claim that I am protecting scum Damo/flash... neither of which I think are scum.

VOTE COUNT

flash2015 (3) — ghug, Durga, damo666
damo666 (2) — bozotheclown, ND
ghug (2) — bo_sox48, DrCjG
rdrivera2005 (2) — Squigs44, flash2015
Durga (1) — worcej

Not voted: DemonRHK, rdrivera2005

FLASH2015 is set to be thrown to the lions.

7 hours remain in Day 5.

[DemonRHK]

VOTE COUNT

damo666 (5) — bozotheclown, ND, worcej, Squigs44, flash2015
flash2015 (3) — ghug, Durga, damo666
ghug (2) — bo_sox48, DrCjG

Not voted: DemonRHK, rdrivera2005

DAMO666 is set to be thrown to the lions.

Just over 5 hours and 30 minutes remain in Day 5.

So you're ignoring the latest votecount because it suited your narrative better?

[Foxcastle]

VOTE COUNT

DrCJG (4) — Squigs44, damo666, ND, DemonRHK
damo666 (2) — bozotheclown, worcej
DemonRHK (2) — DrCJG, flash2015
flash2015 (2) — ghug, Durga
ghug (1) — bo_sox48

Not voted/unvoted: rdrivera2005

DrCJG is set for the gallows!

GM NOTE: Apologies, there was an error that persisted in the last few vote counts where Squigs' vote was listed/counted on both damo and DrCJG. DrCJG is Squigs most recent vote.

4 hours and 30 minutes remain in Day 5.

[flash2015]

@DrCJG, two votes had already moved to damo 10 minutes before your message appeared. Are you saying that you didn't see them before you wrote your message?

[bozotheclown]

I don't like how this is being done late in day just in time to influence vote. Why not do this at start of day @Dr

Doing it so late makes me think scum manipulation.

I understand you feel this way... and if I could provide you with all the information without hurting town I would.

That said, I am doing it now... I felt I could wait no longer into the day... I also note that I don't think it is clear why scum would be looking to manipulate at this point and it would be a crazy time for scum to claim... indeed a crazy time for anyone to claim other than a town PR who feels he must.

For you to be the doctor who can disprove DemonRHK's PR claim, the observer would have have to go all day without counterclaiming DemonRHK. It does not seem very likely that both town PRs knew DemonRHK observer claim was fake and went all day without reporting it.

[DrCJG]

@DrCJG, two votes had already moved to damo 10 minutes before your message appeared. Are you saying that you didn't see them before you wrote your message?

No. I am only saying that I looked back quickly to find the most recent vote count and based my statement off the earlier one.

[damo666]

I don't like how this is being done late in day just in time to influence vote. Why not do this at start of day @Dr

Doing it so late makes me think scum manipulation.

I understand you feel this way... and if I could provide you with all the information without hurting town I would.

That said, I am doing it now... I felt I could wait no longer into the day... I also note that I don't think it is clear why scum would be looking to manipulate at this point and it would be a crazy time for scum to claim... indeed a crazy time for anyone to claim other than a town PR who feels he must.

For you to be the doctor who can disprove DemonRHK's PR claim, the observer would have have to go all day without counterclaiming DemonRHK. It does not seem very likely that both town PRs knew DemonRHK observer claim was fake and went all day without reporting it.

Which is why should only consider him to be claiming Observer. So you either observed demon or somone he was supposed to have observed but didn't. Why not tell us. How will it give anything away?

[flash2015]

I really don't understand why people are voting for DrCJG. Town were dead until he made that claim. Now we are back in the hunt (we have a guaranteed scum kill at worst tomorrow). If he is scum, it just makes no sense for him to out himself like this today. Until he made the claim, scum were coasting to victory...

[damo666]

Not around much for rest of day.

Will pop in infrequently on mobile.

Might be here for EOD but cannot guarantee.

Looks like a straight up fight on who do you believe.

Please don't waste your vote on me.

[flash2015]

@DrCJG, I think you are going to need to tell us how you know that Demon is lying though.

[damo666]

I understand you feel this way... and if I could provide you with all the information without hurting town I would.

That said, I am doing it now... I felt I could wait no longer into the day... I also note that I don't think it is clear why scum would be looking to manipulate at this point and it would be a crazy time for scum to claim... indeed a crazy time for anyone to claim other than a town PR who feels he must.

For you to be the doctor who can disprove DemonRHK's PR claim, the observer would have have to go all day without counterclaiming DemonRHK. It does not seem very likely that both town PRs knew DemonRHK observer claim was fake and went all day without reporting it.

Which is why should only consider him to be claiming Observer. So you either observed demon or somone he was supposed to have observed but didn't. Why not tell us. How will it give anything away?

Scrap that. Obviously if Dr Obs then RHK <> Obs.

BUT Dr I don't understand how giving more detail would help scum. you wouldn't know if anyone you observed was town or scum. Apart from Squigs. Whoops. You are saying Squigs is doc. Squigs if you can confirm you are NOT doc we have DrCJG banged to rights.

[Durga]

Lol. This makes no sense. Is damo scum then?

[DrCJG]

I don't like how this is being done late in day just in time to influence vote. Why not do this at start of day @Dr

Doing it so late makes me think scum manipulation.

I understand you feel this way... and if I could provide you with all the information without hurting town I would.

That said, I am doing it now... I felt I could wait no longer into the day... I also note that I don't think it is clear why scum would be looking to manipulate at this point and it would be a crazy time for scum to claim... indeed a crazy time for anyone to claim other than a town PR who feels he must.

For you to be the doctor who can disprove DemonRHK's PR claim, the observer would have have to go all day without counterclaiming DemonRHK. It does not seem very likely that both town PRs knew DemonRHK observer claim was fake and went all day without reporting it.

IF I am observer... then perhaps my doctor counterpart hasn't identified me and doesn't know RHK was incorrect... I can understand how that would be tough... at best I would have had to seen him visit and somehow clued him to my visit.

IF I am doctor... then perhaps my PR partner was waiting on me and I took my time. Which seems fair in retrospect... I thought it was best to see how scum played it...

OR maybe my PR partner didn't think we needed to cc and I incorrectly decided it needed to be done.

Which is why should only consider him to be claiming Observer. So you either observed demon or someone he was supposed to have observed but didn't. Why not tell us. How will it give anything away?

@ Damo - Again... I do not believe it is in town's best interest for me to tell more unless I must.

Hypo #1: I am Indeed Observer, I have known RHK was lying but hoped my doctor would counterclaim... finally deciding I can wait no longer, I claim. Under this scenario, I would not know if I can be saved tonight 1) not knowing if the doctor saved me last night; 2) not knowing who the box will end up with; and 3) Pretty sure the driver still has uses left. So I try not to make myself a must kill, but trying to make it unclear if I am the doctor or the observer.

Now I am not sure what you mean by "So you either observed demon or someone he was supposed to have observed but didn't. Why not tell us. How will it give anything away?" .... under this hypo... I am the observer... i know he is lying... what's more saying where he didn't go or that I saw him is unprovable.

Now perhaps I have identified the doctor, or I saw the box move, or I saw a NK... but unfortunately all the box movements have been revealed... so the only one I could prove would be to out our doctor... which seems idiotic.

Hypo #2: I am actually the doctor, I may have been pretty sure who the Observer was and thought Demon was lying... but I could only really be sure after he said who he had visited and that he hadn't seen me visit. I have cc'd so that our observer remains hidden. But, I don't really want to give away who I visited because it may lead to who I believe may be the observer and more importantly there is literally nothing I can do to prove it other than have the observer vouch for me... which is obviously not preferred.

[DrCJG]

For you to be the doctor who can disprove DemonRHK's PR claim, the observer would have have to go all day without counterclaiming DemonRHK. It does not seem very likely that both town PRs knew DemonRHK observer claim was fake and went all day without reporting it.

Which is why should only consider him to be claiming Observer. So you either observed demon or somone he was supposed to have observed but didn't. Why not tell us. How will it give anything away?

Scrap that. Obviously if Dr Obs then RHK <> Obs.

BUT Dr I don't understand how giving more detail would help scum. you wouldn't know if anyone you observed was town or scum. Apart from Squigs. Whoops. You are saying Squigs is doc. Squigs if you can confirm you are NOT doc we have DrCJG banged to rights.

@ Damo - here you go again trying to force town to make statements that I hope to be wholly unnecessary.

IF I am observer - I can identify someone as town by knowing other information... for example, who the NK was... who was RB'd.... who got the box... I would be able to see someone and identify their role/alignment regardless of whether they were oracled.

IF I am doctor - then I can't know for sure who the observer is... it is possible he crumbed me... but I can know that RHK is lying.

[DrCJG]

Not around much for rest of day.

Will pop in infrequently on mobile.

Might be here for EOD but cannot guarantee.

Looks like a straight up fight on who do you believe.

Please don't waste your vote on me.

I am sorry to hear that. I think you are a crucial vote. I will be gone from at least 1:30-2:30 ET, but I will try and answer questions after that.

[bozotheclown]

I understand you feel this way... and if I could provide you with all the information without hurting town I would.

That said, I am doing it now... I felt I could wait no longer into the day... I also note that I don't think it is clear why scum would be looking to manipulate at this point and it would be a crazy time for scum to claim... indeed a crazy time for anyone to claim other than a town PR who feels he must.

For you to be the doctor who can disprove DemonRHK's PR claim, the observer would have have to go all day without counterclaiming DemonRHK. It does not seem very likely that both town PRs knew DemonRHK observer claim was fake and went all day without reporting it.

IF I am observer... then perhaps my doctor counterpart hasn't identified me and doesn't know RHK was incorrect... I can understand how that would be tough... at best I would have had to seen him visit and somehow clued him to my visit.

IF I am doctor... then perhaps my PR partner was waiting on me and I took my time. Which seems fair in retrospect... I thought it was best to see how scum played it...

OR maybe my PR partner didn't think we needed to cc and I incorrectly decided it needed to be done.

Which is why should only consider him to be claiming Observer. So you either observed demon or someone he was supposed to have observed but didn't. Why not tell us. How will it give anything away?

@ Damo - Again... I do not believe it is in town's best interest for me to tell more unless I must.

Hypo #1: I am Indeed Observer, I have known RHK was lying but hoped my doctor would counterclaim... finally deciding I can wait no longer, I claim. Under this scenario, I would not know if I can be saved tonight 1) not knowing if the doctor saved me last night; 2) not knowing who the box will end up with; and 3) Pretty sure the driver still has uses left. So I try not to make myself a must kill, but trying to make it unclear if I am the doctor or the observer.

Now I am not sure what you mean by "So you either observed demon or someone he was supposed to have observed but didn't. Why not tell us. How will it give anything away?" .... under this hypo... I am the observer... i know he is lying... what's more saying where he didn't go or that I saw him is unprovable.

Now perhaps I have identified the doctor, or I saw the box move, or I saw a NK... but unfortunately all the box movements have been revealed... so the only one I could prove would be to out our doctor... which seems idiotic.

Hypo #2: I am actually the doctor, I may have been pretty sure who the Observer was and thought Demon was lying... but I could only really be sure after he said who he had visited and that he hadn't seen me visit. I have cc'd so that our observer remains hidden. But, I don't really want to give away who I visited because it may lead to who I believe may be the observer and more importantly there is literally nothing I can do to prove it other than have the observer vouch for me... which is obviously not preferred.

Your hypothetical #2 does not make sense to me. If you were going to make a claim so that the observer could stay hidden, you should have made it immediately after DemonRHK made his observer claim that you could disprove. The long you waited, the more likely the observer would claim.

[flash2015]

Why did you not at least start a Demon wagon earlier in the day? Or have you not been around until now?

[Durga]

Flash - damo - DRC - ghug(?) worcej(?)

[bo_sox48]

note 'again'

Why should we note 'again'?

Day 1 & Day 2. Possibly now redundant post drCJG claim

Okay, we're gonna try this again, and this time, a) please answer my question and b) please do so in comprehensible English.

Why should we note 'again'?