M62: PEOPLE'S DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF REVOLUTIONARY MAFIA GAME THREAD!

[ghug]

##Vote Hamilton

On a reread of his iso I can't figure out why my scumread was temporarily lessened.
Normally I'd feel perterbed that this wagon has just been a consistent force all day without much else happening, but I felt there was a similar apathy d1 with the crazy amount of wagons near the end.

Yoyo please actually play the game you signed up for.

Look who actually bought brainbomb's kgray vote.

[Fluminator]

yeah im reading, and still waffling a bit more on flum. I did like how he was all confident in how he had towntold enough after leading the wagon on teacon. And I got irritated arguing with him.

Probably blind staring myself on neph still

I feel like I've liked most of what flum has posted. He's so much less jokey than he was as 3p at least. I can't remember what he was like those two days he was scum before we had to reroll but I feel like he puts in less effort to solve if he was scum.

Wouldn't Flum's 3p game be closer to his town game than his scum game? And you think Flum has put in a lot of effort to solve?

FWIW, my scum game is very similar to the game I'm playing right now

[Fluminator]

##Vote Hamilton

On a reread of his iso I can't figure out why my scumread was temporarily lessened.
Normally I'd feel perterbed that this wagon has just been a consistent force all day without much else happening, but I felt there was a similar apathy d1 with the crazy amount of wagons near the end.

Yoyo please actually play the game you signed up for.

Look who actually bought brainbomb's kgray vote.

kgray's wagon is still bigger than it should be, brainbomb vote or not.

[damo666]

##Vote kgray

[damo666]

Lastly, in writing this I realized that I should probably extend my question to Maniac to damo as well. @damo how do your reads of kgray tie into your vote for her? Notably that you said she was leantown last night.

My 'read' on kgray was clearly something of a joke basically being she couldn't be that bad as scum the way she picking holes in most things I was saying. My vote on her is due to teacon's death and her voting pattern.

[aarodactyl]

For better or worse, I'm realizing that I need to reread a lot of this game now that I'm starting to be able to tell people apart. I'm going to include my reads here. There's going to be a lot people not included, but I'll make another post tomorrow once I do a lot of rereading and note taking.

-First of all, as a new player, the whole interaction between Bunny and Celaph about QT was incredibly suspicious. I hadn't heard the term QT before, but it was obviously a trap to get Celaph to scumslip. My personal take is that it was coordinated by the person that's allowed to day post in mafia chat (I'm not scum, I just read the rules). I think it's also possible to read it as null. However, I think it's a large stretch to read it as celaph definitely being town. I just looked back and the people that jump on the celaph town wagon were Durga, Damo, HB, and Bunny.

-I have no idea what the meta is for how scum vote. However, the rest of the bullet points are going to be about voting records anyways. If Maniac ends up being scum, all the votes on ND starting with mine are super suspicious. However, if only look at the votes that happened to make ND go ahead of tea , the suspicious ones to me (based on voting ND) are Jamiet, brain, Kgrey, and HB.

-I'm also suspicious of Balki for switching to tea with 1 minute left. To me this reads as someone trying to pass as town by casting a vote for scum that wasn't going to matter. It also got them off of a single person wagon (HB) that they jumped on with 4 minutes left. But maybe I'm underestimating the last minute swings.

-Everyone that ended on a one person wagon is suspicious to me. This includes Bona, Bozo, EMC, Maniac, Neph, Vecna, Worcej, and Yoyo.

-On the other hand, I think Vashta is town based on the timing of their votes for Tea. I think HR and Chaqa might be town for the same reason. However, this depends on whether or not Maniac is town or not (meaning they're probably town if Maniac is town or null if Maniac is scum).

-I've skimmed the entire game, and I agree that Kgrey's voting was very suspicious at the end of the round. I'm going to see who pushed this line of reasoning, but for now I think it's compelling.

Unfortunately I have a lot of reasons to suspect different people of being scum, and there's very little overlap between the lists I created. As a result, I don't have that much confidence in the following reads. However, I think adding my opinion tonight is helpful anyways.

Town reads:
Vashta (for putting tea two votes ahead of ND)

Scum reads:
Balki (their voting seemed super strange)
Celaph (for their respond to the QT question)
HB (for being in the overlap of two of my lists)
Kgrey (for being in the overlap of the QT thing and for switching voting from tea to ND)

[damo666]

I dislike the HB wagon, he sounds genuine to me. I townread the last 3 voters (celaph, Vecna and Flum) so I therefore hypothesise there is at least 1 scum in the remaining voters (Neph, Durga, Balki).

Of the current kgray voters the only possible busser I can see might be Maniac.

Of those off the top 2 wagons I townread HR, Bona, HB and ghug.

[Chaqa]

For better or worse, I'm realizing that I need to reread a lot of this game now that I'm starting to be able to tell people apart. I'm going to include my reads here. There's going to be a lot people not included, but I'll make another post tomorrow once I do a lot of rereading and note taking.

-First of all, as a new player, the whole interaction between Bunny and Celaph about QT was incredibly suspicious. I hadn't heard the term QT before, but it was obviously a trap to get Celaph to scumslip. My personal take is that it was coordinated by the person that's allowed to day post in mafia chat (I'm not scum, I just read the rules). I think it's also possible to read it as null. However, I think it's a large stretch to read it as celaph definitely being town. I just looked back and the people that jump on the celaph town wagon were Durga, Damo, HB, and Bunny.

-I have no idea what the meta is for how scum vote. However, the rest of the bullet points are going to be about voting records anyways. If Maniac ends up being scum, all the votes on ND starting with mine are super suspicious. However, if only look at the votes that happened to make ND go ahead of tea , the suspicious ones to me (based on voting ND) are Jamiet, brain, Kgrey, and HB.

-I'm also suspicious of Balki for switching to tea with 1 minute left. To me this reads as someone trying to pass as town by casting a vote for scum that wasn't going to matter. It also got them off of a single person wagon (HB) that they jumped on with 4 minutes left. But maybe I'm underestimating the last minute swings.

-Everyone that ended on a one person wagon is suspicious to me. This includes Bona, Bozo, EMC, Maniac, Neph, Vecna, Worcej, and Yoyo.

-On the other hand, I think Vashta is town based on the timing of their votes for Tea. I think HR and Chaqa might be town for the same reason. However, this depends on whether or not Maniac is town or not (meaning they're probably town if Maniac is town or null if Maniac is scum).

-I've skimmed the entire game, and I agree that Kgrey's voting was very suspicious at the end of the round. I'm going to see who pushed this line of reasoning, but for now I think it's compelling.

Unfortunately I have a lot of reasons to suspect different people of being scum, and there's very little overlap between the lists I created. As a result, I don't have that much confidence in the following reads. However, I think adding my opinion tonight is helpful anyways.

Town reads:
Vashta (for putting tea two votes ahead of ND)

Scum reads:
Balki (their voting seemed super strange)
Celaph (for their respond to the QT question)
HB (for being in the overlap of two of my lists)
Kgrey (for being in the overlap of the QT thing and for switching voting from tea to ND)

This is a really nice post.

[damo666]

For better or worse, I'm realizing that I need to reread a lot of this game now that I'm starting to be able to tell people apart. I'm going to include my reads here. There's going to be a lot people not included, but I'll make another post tomorrow once I do a lot of rereading and note taking.

-First of all, as a new player, the whole interaction between Bunny and Celaph about QT was incredibly suspicious. I hadn't heard the term QT before, but it was obviously a trap to get Celaph to scumslip. My personal take is that it was coordinated by the person that's allowed to day post in mafia chat (I'm not scum, I just read the rules). I think it's also possible to read it as null. However, I think it's a large stretch to read it as celaph definitely being town. I just looked back and the people that jump on the celaph town wagon were Durga, Damo, HB, and Bunny.

-I have no idea what the meta is for how scum vote. However, the rest of the bullet points are going to be about voting records anyways. If Maniac ends up being scum, all the votes on ND starting with mine are super suspicious. However, if only look at the votes that happened to make ND go ahead of tea , the suspicious ones to me (based on voting ND) are Jamiet, brain, Kgrey, and HB.

-I'm also suspicious of Balki for switching to tea with 1 minute left. To me this reads as someone trying to pass as town by casting a vote for scum that wasn't going to matter. It also got them off of a single person wagon (HB) that they jumped on with 4 minutes left. But maybe I'm underestimating the last minute swings.

-Everyone that ended on a one person wagon is suspicious to me. This includes Bona, Bozo, EMC, Maniac, Neph, Vecna, Worcej, and Yoyo.

-On the other hand, I think Vashta is town based on the timing of their votes for Tea. I think HR and Chaqa might be town for the same reason. However, this depends on whether or not Maniac is town or not (meaning they're probably town if Maniac is town or null if Maniac is scum).

-I've skimmed the entire game, and I agree that Kgrey's voting was very suspicious at the end of the round. I'm going to see who pushed this line of reasoning, but for now I think it's compelling.

Unfortunately I have a lot of reasons to suspect different people of being scum, and there's very little overlap between the lists I created. As a result, I don't have that much confidence in the following reads. However, I think adding my opinion tonight is helpful anyways.

Town reads:
Vashta (for putting tea two votes ahead of ND)

Scum reads:
Balki (their voting seemed super strange)
Celaph (for their respond to the QT question)
HB (for being in the overlap of two of my lists)
Kgrey (for being in the overlap of the QT thing and for switching voting from tea to ND)

Aaro => townbook for this

[Fluminator]

Ok brain is officially a scumread now too.

Every other post from him today is him talking about how he tried to save teacon and it almost sounds jubilant and smug with how much he brings it up along with the excitement behind it.
It really feels he's going into his "I'm so crazy and whacky" meta to cover his tracks to get away with it and loving every minute it's working.
I feel like town brain would not be like this.

Brain, Brian, probably one of ghug/Vecna/Balki, probably a couple out of the pool of lurkers/new players/Maniac.
I'd put damo in there too but I'll trust HR's read on him for now and there's an abundance of scummy behaviour this game to go around.

Bunny is still kind of scummy too lol.

[bozotheclown]

Wheres the consolidation with reads?

You know full well that with any 1v1 vote where one scum is up on day1, scum will nearly always position themselves well, and tons of townies are gonna be on the bad wagon with shady looking reasoning. Especially so when the alternative is ND, and the scum is a good on a 6 player team.

So who came out "positioned well"?

Trying to turn it around on me, are we?

You usually use much more shallow logic as scum Bozo. You misrepresent facts, leave out the logical deductions and just focus on a simple thing that you think will look plausible as a reason to scumread someone.

So yeah, you claimed to have read the entire game. Why are you voting Kgray without looking at the stuff she has said about those people? Whether her votes and switches make sense with her stances?

I think that is NAI, kgray is very capable of covering here votes as scum.

I think the best argument in kgray's favor is that I would expect her to follow through bussing teacon if she were scum.

[bozotheclown]

I am pushing Hamilton for the DK today. I only have one vote!

You’re saying that I need to have my vote on Hamilton all day today or else it doesn’t look like I sincerely think he’s scum?

Is that the reason you are voting for me?

No, I voted for you before I saw that you had changed your vote to ghug (even though it happened 5 minutes earlier). Hamilton's D1 EOD vote does not look good, so if you are scum, I would not be surprised if you were bussing Hamilton.

You think this is at all likely after Balki just doubled down on gunning for HB again today?

If Balki and Hamilton are both scum, Balki would have to follow through with the bus today after Hamilton's vote helped save teacon.

[ghug]

For better or worse, I'm realizing that I need to reread a lot of this game now that I'm starting to be able to tell people apart. I'm going to include my reads here. There's going to be a lot people not included, but I'll make another post tomorrow once I do a lot of rereading and note taking.

-First of all, as a new player, the whole interaction between Bunny and Celaph about QT was incredibly suspicious. I hadn't heard the term QT before, but it was obviously a trap to get Celaph to scumslip. My personal take is that it was coordinated by the person that's allowed to day post in mafia chat (I'm not scum, I just read the rules). I think it's also possible to read it as null. However, I think it's a large stretch to read it as celaph definitely being town. I just looked back and the people that jump on the celaph town wagon were Durga, Damo, HB, and Bunny.

-I have no idea what the meta is for how scum vote. However, the rest of the bullet points are going to be about voting records anyways. If Maniac ends up being scum, all the votes on ND starting with mine are super suspicious. However, if only look at the votes that happened to make ND go ahead of tea , the suspicious ones to me (based on voting ND) are Jamiet, brain, Kgrey, and HB.

-I'm also suspicious of Balki for switching to tea with 1 minute left. To me this reads as someone trying to pass as town by casting a vote for scum that wasn't going to matter. It also got them off of a single person wagon (HB) that they jumped on with 4 minutes left. But maybe I'm underestimating the last minute swings.

-Everyone that ended on a one person wagon is suspicious to me. This includes Bona, Bozo, EMC, Maniac, Neph, Vecna, Worcej, and Yoyo.

-On the other hand, I think Vashta is town based on the timing of their votes for Tea. I think HR and Chaqa might be town for the same reason. However, this depends on whether or not Maniac is town or not (meaning they're probably town if Maniac is town or null if Maniac is scum).

-I've skimmed the entire game, and I agree that Kgrey's voting was very suspicious at the end of the round. I'm going to see who pushed this line of reasoning, but for now I think it's compelling.

Unfortunately I have a lot of reasons to suspect different people of being scum, and there's very little overlap between the lists I created. As a result, I don't have that much confidence in the following reads. However, I think adding my opinion tonight is helpful anyways.

Town reads:
Vashta (for putting tea two votes ahead of ND)

Scum reads:
Balki (their voting seemed super strange)
Celaph (for their respond to the QT question)
HB (for being in the overlap of two of my lists)
Kgrey (for being in the overlap of the QT thing and for switching voting from tea to ND)

This is a really nice post.

Wrong is how Chaqa should be. Good stuff

[aarodactyl]

Also it’s getting really late for me so I’m done posting for tonight (though I might go on my phone to read posts). I have nothing important in the morning so I’ll probably sleep in, so don’t expect anything from me any time soon. I’ll be on a few hours before EOD with more comments and a vote. On the off chance that something happens and I can’t get on, I’m going to ##unvote do I don’t get kicked out of the game.

Also this whole game I’ve been thinking bunny is scum but I’ve been weighing that against the fact that I know him irl and was probably going to always lean towards him being scum. I think the interaction with celaph is enough to put him on my scum list but I’m going to hold off on doing that until I reread the game tomorrow (again because of my out of game bias).

[bozotheclown]

9. I am leaving my vote on Yoyo for now - and I notice that Vashta has not posted at all either, nor has Chaqa. Why do these people sign up? Vote these three out and I bet you'll get at least one scum, very possibly two. As his mother often used to say, "I can't recall a single useful thing Chaqa has done".

However I realise that I can't just sit here, occasionally post Bonzo Dog Band links, and hate on Yoyo and Chaqa. So I'd also like to point out that I am still strongly scumreading Bozotheclown. He never explained why he thought scum would react differently to foreign language posts in white text, yet he appeared to maintain he did that for a reason. Plus, he has suddenly totally stopped pressuring me, without really explaining why, when apparently I was his #1 scumread for much of yesterday. Very sus.

I am going to take some time to re-examine Maniac as he was the other dish on yesterday's menu.

I mentioned you in a group whose D1 votes did not look good because of your unexplained late vote for ND. If you are scum, it is convenient that you used your 30 posts before EOD and can blame that for not being able to explain your vote.

Why do you assume I thought scum would react differently to my white text post? I certainly never said that.

[bozotheclown]

- Balki continually wasting his vote but then parking on teacon at the last second when it was too late looks much worse in retrospect

This phrasing makes my handsome forehead crinkle too!

How did I “continually waste my vote”?

I voted my conscience on Hamilton Brian. Then when it was clear to me that ship wouldn’t sail, I chose between the two leading wagons! Isn’t that the opposite of wasting my vote? I only have one vote. I used it to tell you all who I thought was scum, and then I weighed in on the emergent dipole.

Hellenic Riot is a smart dude. I just feel like he’s trying to discredit me here.

I know I am having trouble talking about people who are not me. But I’m trying to understand why a bunch of smart people are pushing this incorrect narrative.

I would like to point out this post by Balki since it is the reason I am voting for him. It implies that Balki thought there was a chance of getting Hamilton DKed with 4 minutes left, which I find hard to believe.

[Balki Bartokomous]

- Balki continually wasting his vote but then parking on teacon at the last second when it was too late looks much worse in retrospect

This phrasing makes my handsome forehead crinkle too!

How did I “continually waste my vote”?

I voted my conscience on Hamilton Brian. Then when it was clear to me that ship wouldn’t sail, I chose between the two leading wagons! Isn’t that the opposite of wasting my vote? I only have one vote. I used it to tell you all who I thought was scum, and then I weighed in on the emergent dipole.

Hellenic Riot is a smart dude. I just feel like he’s trying to discredit me here.

I know I am having trouble talking about people who are not me. But I’m trying to understand why a bunch of smart people are pushing this incorrect narrative.

I would like to point out this post by Balki since it is the reason I am voting for him. It implies that Balki thought there was a chance of getting Hamilton DKed with 4 minutes left, which I find hard to believe.

Good. Let’s talk about this.

You have a problem with me voting for the person I thought most likely to flip scum, and then switching to one of the two leading wagons when my vote was about to be counted? Why?

Lots of people voted for people off the leading wagons and didn’t move their vote to a leading wagon. Why does my behavior out of everyone’s look suspicious to you? Why do you think my behavior is inconsistent with Town!Balki behavior?

[Balki Bartokomous]

Just as one example, @Bozo, you voted for Jamiet all day, though he did not get beyond two votes. It would seem like you might understand a rationale behind voting for who you think is most likely to flip scum, even if that person doesn’t seem particularly likely to flip.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Reading our friend teacon now.

So much nonsense about drinking and such. Guys, I think teacon was scum.

Vecna looking towny, primarily for the engagement when he was catching up. The first sober voice in 20 pages.

This seemed like the first alignment-related comment that teacon made. Giving Vecna a town read and complimenting him. Not conclusive by any means, but I expect that Vecna is likely town here. It feels like teacon is going out of his way a bit to make this read — and it would be unusual to start off one’s reads by calling a teammate town. It makes more sense to me that this is an effort to curry favor with Vecna, and that it is an easy read to make of a slot that one knows is town.

[bozotheclown]

This phrasing makes my handsome forehead crinkle too!

How did I “continually waste my vote”?

I voted my conscience on Hamilton Brian. Then when it was clear to me that ship wouldn’t sail, I chose between the two leading wagons! Isn’t that the opposite of wasting my vote? I only have one vote. I used it to tell you all who I thought was scum, and then I weighed in on the emergent dipole.

Hellenic Riot is a smart dude. I just feel like he’s trying to discredit me here.

I know I am having trouble talking about people who are not me. But I’m trying to understand why a bunch of smart people are pushing this incorrect narrative.

I would like to point out this post by Balki since it is the reason I am voting for him. It implies that Balki thought there was a chance of getting Hamilton DKed with 4 minutes left, which I find hard to believe.

Good. Let’s talk about this.

You have a problem with me voting for the person I thought most likely to flip scum, and then switching to one of the two leading wagons when my vote was about to be counted? Why?

Lots of people voted for people off the leading wagons and didn’t move their vote to a leading wagon. Why does my behavior out of everyone’s look suspicious to you? Why do you think my behavior is inconsistent with Town!Balki behavior?

Everyone not voting for ND, teacon, or Maniac except for you and emc did not appear to be online at EOD.

As I previously stated, your vote looks suspicious to me because you avoided breaking the tie between ND and teacon, and your explanation seems suspicious because I do not think there was any chance of Hamilton getting DKed when you returned your vote to him, and I think you had already clearly established your scum read of him.

To answer your specific question, as town I would expect you to make a choice between ND, teacon, and Maniac when it was clear they were the DK options instead of trying to start a wagon on BunnyGo or emphasize your scum read of Hamilton.