M59 - Duck Season? - Game Thread

[bozotheclown]

MF was ahead or tied with foodcoats for most of the lat 5 hours, but you stayed on foodcoats.

last

So? I don't understand your point. There were two people who were viable wagons who I scumread, Moscow and food. I would have been happy with either flip. I voted for both at some point. When I moved to Moscow it's because I thought he had the highest chance of flipping scum.

My concern is this:

I'd also be alright with a Moscow wagon. He's faded away a lot for someone who said it's important for town to constantly communicate their evaluation of the game, he started a bozo wagon for an admittedly non-serious reason but still claims bozo is obvious scum, and I'm the only person who he says he townreads and I'm suspicious that he's buddying me after our early interaction.

This seems like a stronger scum read on MF than you had on foodcoats, who I believe you initially voted for because he had only posted once in the first 24 hours. You pointed out that it was not typical for foodcoats is his town games, but you did not check what he had done as scum in the past to see if that was scum indicative. There are a lot of reasons why someone may be unavailable for a 24 hour window. Then, near EOD you said this:

I really want to see Moscow flip. Flash flipping tells us nothing.

What did foodcoats flipping tell us that flash flipping did not?

[Durga]

Durga trying to town-slip eh

Got em

[goldfinger0303]

If you look at this night's posting statistics it is fairly apparent who hasn't been spending their time in scumchat.

That's pretty NAI, imo.

[hthefourth]

Shit, I just scum slipped. Sorry team.

Does Durga usually joke about this as scum?

Ghug I know will do stuff like this as town. Maybe worcej has too when heated.
Bo I know has outwardly claimed scum as scum and gotten away with it. I have done it as well. I think maybe HR too?
I just don't have enough history with Durga to know which camp she falls in.

You just played a game with me where I was scum. Why do you feel the need to ask others this question?

Pretty much reminds me of Tom's post at the beginning of the game.

[bozotheclown]

@Bozo was your MF scumbus analysis all votes or just endvotes?

I looked at all of MF's votes during his scum games, and only found 1 case where he voted for a scum teammate at any point, and that was later in the game when MF was under suspicion and distancing from his teammate was probably the best option for both. I saw no evidence that MF would risk starting a wagon on one of his teammates D1.

[kgray]

last

So? I don't understand your point. There were two people who were viable wagons who I scumread, Moscow and food. I would have been happy with either flip. I voted for both at some point. When I moved to Moscow it's because I thought he had the highest chance of flipping scum.

My concern is this:

I'd also be alright with a Moscow wagon. He's faded away a lot for someone who said it's important for town to constantly communicate their evaluation of the game, he started a bozo wagon for an admittedly non-serious reason but still claims bozo is obvious scum, and I'm the only person who he says he townreads and I'm suspicious that he's buddying me after our early interaction.

This seems like a stronger scum read on MF than you had on foodcoats, who I believe you initially voted for because he had only posted once in the first 24 hours. You pointed out that it was not typical for foodcoats is his town games, but you did not check what he had done as scum in the past to see if that was scum indicative. There are a lot of reasons why someone may be unavailable for a 24 hour window. Then, near EOD you said this:

I really want to see Moscow flip. Flash flipping tells us nothing.

What did foodcoats flipping tell us that flash flipping did not?

So a few things:

(1) I could think of more concrete reasons to vote for Moscow than food, yes, but I thought that food's D1 was very out of character overall and he feels scummy to me. I was concerned by his lurking and when he showed up his posts did not do anything to change my mind.

(2) I did briefly check what food did in some previous scum games and also skimmed back through his ISOs from the two town games I played with him. I didn't find anything very convincing one way or another. I noted that here he seems less jokey than when I played with town!food, and I also noticed that he seemed less jokey in some of his scum games, but then I found one where was scum but also jokey. So I did look into his past but it didn't tell me much.

(3) I said that Moscow gives us more info than flash 10 minutes before EOD, after I had already decided he was my preferred kill, and food was no longer even a wagon. It very much looked like it was going to be flash or Moscow. There was no need to compare the amount of info we get from food's flip to flash's flip. Getting info from a food flip was never part of my vote for him. I had already been suspicious of Moscow based on his interactions with other people (notably you and HR) so I wanted the chance to both catch scum and, if successful, see if we could find the other members of his team based on his interactions.

[BunnyGo]

I think it's just NAI sarcasm. If anything you look way scummier for posing the question than Durga did for making the statement which was clearly tongue in cheek.

This.

Bunny, it's hilarious you try to jump on this, because iirc you jumped on ghug for the same thing

Hey, I’ll jump wherever I want.

But in all honesty I don’t know what you’re talking about.

[BunnyGo]

This.

Bunny, it's hilarious you try to jump on this, because iirc you jumped on ghug for the same thing

Bunny hops on anything

Hey! Damo gets me. ##vote Damo

[hthefourth]

In order of questionmarks: Yes, it wasn't the read it was the vote, and this question is dumb based off other questions you've asked - go read my cross post.

Again - you're not reading what people say very well.

Hey kgray you want to help me give worcej some heat?

Sure. My initial thought is that the situation was frustrating, but I'm not sure if it's alignment indicative.

On the one hand, his dismissal of my points was fairly scummy because he didn't seem to be thinking about what I was saying (or even what Moscow was saying) and was just writing me off. So definitely I get the feeling he could have been protecting Moscow by trying to make my arguments fabricated.

But on the other hand, in my experience he's combative in general and I don't think he really pushed back on anyone else's scumreads of Moscow. Maybe he just doesn't like me lol

I don't have many thoughts about worcej outside of this interaction. He hasn't contributed too much game-related content. He shaded bozo a bit for his entrance, did a ton of shitposting, that time he kept asking Tom what Tom thinks is scummy seemed like he was trying to fake participation. The only strong stance he took was to defend my questioning of Moscow's bozo scumread. So... overall, not looking too good.

What am I missing?

When worcej voted bozo, he quoted MF as saying that he would be "down to off bozo on principle if people are interested." "On principle" feels really flimsy, even if bozo did draw some flak for his earlier disagreement with Tom. Would worcej have drawn attention to MF's apparent lack of reasoning if worcej was a fellow member of the scum team and wanted a misvote?

[Hellenic Riot]

MF was always tied for the lead or behind only flash, so if flash had voted for foodcoats, damo, or yavuzovic at any point, it would look like he was protecting MF. That is why it makes sense even if foodcoats, damo, and yavuzovic are all town.

There was a giant opportunity to vote yavu in particular because of the vote-tie thing. Flash did not take it. Therefore, I do not buy that Flash is scum. It doesn't matter if he "might look like he was protecting MF" - That's still infinitely better than either Flash or MF being killed if they're scum.

Voting for foodcoats, damo, and yavuzovic was also better than self voting if flash is town.

Yes - But my point is that self-voting is even more idiotic as scum than it is as town there. I certainly don't find it a reason to scumread Flash.

[BunnyGo]

If you look at this night's posting statistics it is fairly apparent who hasn't been spending their time in scumchat.

I did enjoy figuring out goldie was scum based on his timing in chat. Good times.

Hey Goldie, any stock tips for us?

[bozotheclown]

Every half decent player busses when it makes sense, but your lack of analysis on why people would buss this way and get the Strongman killed is making me scumread you.

Look at Bunny analysis on Kgray and Seth to see someone tryng to solve (and I believe Kgray is town). This generic "there is known bussers" seems a way to divert the focus from people who actively defended Moscow or ignored him that is where it's most likely we find scum.

I did not say all of the scum were bussing MF. However, I was making a point that I do not think we can assume this:

I told my gut feelings are getting better.

Getting scum D1 is great, but also having a towncore is even better. Vecna, kgray, summit, damo and Flum are all town. Yav and Flash are probably town too.

Why not? I am not saying all people on Moscow wagon are town, but I am pretty sure most of them are and it's far more productive to look elsewhere at least tomorrow.
So, instead of discussing bussers we should look who could have tried to save Moscow or who just sit on vanity wagons. Weren't you that have a theory about vanity wagons?

I agree this is a good place to look for scum, historically speaking:

yavuzovic (2) - TrPrado, MoscowFleet
damo666 (2) - Macca573, worcej
foodcoats (2) - Hellenic Riot, Durga
TrPrado (1) - goldfinger0303

However, all of these players did not appear to be online at EOD. We know MK was not available to be online. Maybe all of the scum were not available, or were pretending not to be, but that seems unlikely.

As to who tried to save MF, that is hard to say not knowing flash's alignment. The players that could have been trying to save MF without voting for flash appear to be seth, kgray, and worcej. So, if flash is scum, the other 2 primary scum could be among seth, kgray, and worcej. If flash is town, then it is obviously more likely there was scum on flash's wagon.

[BunnyGo]

If you look at this night's posting statistics it is fairly apparent who hasn't been spending their time in scumchat.

Im fairly certain that the top posters would quite happily keep up their volume in both chats

Ayuh.

[BunnyGo]

Durga trying to town-slip eh

LOL

[BunnyGo]

One game is not a statistically significant sample size. And it was a quick minigame at that.

I've only been scum thrice on this website. One was years ago. The other was also years ago and it was me subbing in. So you've got the best experience of me as scum.

I still think it's a weird question to ask people even if the mini game was short. I produced a lot of content

It's not necessarily just your scum play. Your town play as well. I noted remembering ghug do it as town.

And it's really not that weird to ask a question about something you find odd. My history with you is just that 1 game, I believe. Almost everyone here has more. Just trying to find if anyone had an idea of your meta. If nobody answers, then chalk it up as NAI.

Wasn’t Durga in the Matrix?

[goldfinger0303]

But in all honesty I don’t know what you’re talking about.

p138-139 of M57.

I wish I didn't have to ISO other games. Kinda why I just asked the question to everyone instead of doing it myself. I'm on a bit of a time crunch.

[goldfinger0303]

If you look at this night's posting statistics it is fairly apparent who hasn't been spending their time in scumchat.

I did enjoy figuring out goldie was scum based on his timing in chat. Good times.

Hey Goldie, any stock tips for us?

Yes, that was a mistake on my part. I just enjoyed your company so much that I wanted to give you some feedback, and went against the advice of my teammates. Worked out fine in the end.

I'm not in that sort of finance. More in corporate governance. Holding companies accountable for good management practices, executive pay, etc.

[Hellenic Riot]

If you look at this night's posting statistics it is fairly apparent who hasn't been spending their time in scumchat.

Au contraire, don't people who are busy talking in scumchat have more reason to be online in the first place and thus are *more* likely to be talking here, too?

[bozotheclown]

There was a giant opportunity to vote yavu in particular because of the vote-tie thing. Flash did not take it. Therefore, I do not buy that Flash is scum. It doesn't matter if he "might look like he was protecting MF" - That's still infinitely better than either Flash or MF being killed if they're scum.

Voting for foodcoats, damo, and yavuzovic was also better than self voting if flash is town.

Yes - But my point is that self-voting is even more idiotic as scum than it is as town there. I certainly don't find it a reason to scumread Flash.

I am not sure that is true when flash's only other options as scum were to vote for a teammate or look like he was protecting a teammate. When flash finally voted for MF, it would have looked like he was protecting MF not to vote for him.

[Durga]

If you look at this night's posting statistics it is fairly apparent who hasn't been spending their time in scumchat.

I did enjoy figuring out goldie was scum based on his timing in chat. Good times.

Hey Goldie, any stock tips for us?

Yes, that was a mistake on my part. I just enjoyed your company so much that I wanted to give you some feedback, and went against the advice of my teammates. Worked out fine in the end.

I'm not in that sort of finance. More in corporate governance. Holding companies accountable for good management practices, executive pay, etc.

Wait what exactly happened? I wasn't in the game Goldie was scum.