M1015 - Super Mafioso Bros

[bozotheclown]

A lot of Bozo's activity this phase feels fake.

He generally gives the overall tone of a reasonably intelligent person who has just subbed into the game and is asking a range of hopefully insightful questions, but from a position of relative ignorance.

So in fact most of Bozo's questioning of other people ranges from the redundant to the obvious. In many places he seems to be asking people things they have already answered in prior discussions as both Bo_Sox and HR have noted.

@Bozo: Prior to today, were you actively reading the thread? Why were you apparently so disengaged for most of D1 and D2?

Notice that I have asked Bozo this question before (it was on page 40), and he totally ignored me.

Something is is fishy here.

I have been limited in the time I have been able to be online, but I would not say I have been disengaged. I am not sure what you mean by "actively reading", but I have read the thread.

Going back to page 40:

If you took half a second to actually look at D2, and then took another half a second to look at who HR is voting for/most heavily scumreads, you would know the answer to your own terrible question, bozo.

I agree with Bo_Sox here.

Bozo seems awfully disengaged from the game.

Why is that, Bozo?

If you agreed with bo_sox that the answer to my question was obvious, can you tell me what the answer was at the time? Why do you think bo_sox thought it was necessary to call a question I asked HR "terrible"?

[bozotheclown]

You might say that as scum to look like you did not know the BP was targeted.

Do you really think I would get any credit whatsoever for dumbtelling? That I would even bother trying?

I still do not know how you could think it was possible that damo was the mafia target.

If you are town, do you think all 3 scum voted for you D2?

If you took half a second to actually look at D2, and then took another half a second to look at who HR is voting for/most heavily scumreads, you would know the answer to your own terrible question, bozo.

If you took half a second to actually look at D2, and then took another half a second to look at who HR is voting for/most heavily scumreads, you would know the answer to your own terrible question, bozo.

I agree with Bo_Sox here.

Bozo seems awfully disengaged from the game.

Why is that, Bozo?

Everyone except bo_sox and kgray voted for HR at some point D2. If a town player was leading the votes 5-0 early, I would expect at least 1 of the 3 scum to stay off the wagon. I was asking HR if he thought that also, or if he thought all 3 scum could have voted for him D2. bo_sox immediately jumped in and called the question "terrible", and then Jamie agreed with bo_sox.

As far as I can tell, bo_sox ignored my follow up to his response:

If you took half a second to actually look at D2, and then took another half a second to look at who HR is voting for/most heavily scumreads, you would know the answer to your own terrible question, bozo.

So what is the answer then?

[bozotheclown]

I am allowed to have more than one strong scumread.

But I am also happy staying on HR, I assure you.

Why didn't you switch back to HR when you could have broken the three way tie?

Were you online at EoD?

The votes were moving around so fast with multiple cross-posted votes... it was impossible to know what was happening.

I was monitoring EOD, but I kept my vote on HR, who was my preferred kill for the reason I gave early D2.

When I asked this question, I did not realized that you were the one who set up the first 3 way tie by changing your vote from HR to summit with 3 minutes left. You had said HR and summit were your top scum reads, but why did you move off of HR after voting for him for 36 hours to cause a three way tie only 3 minutes before EOD?

Like bo_sox, you seemed to be trying to save HR with your EOD vote.

[bozotheclown]

I already explained to bozo why I’m not voting for him, and yes, I can. I just think it’s odd that he’s been the lead wagon all day and now there’s people stepping out to fight that.

Which people are you suspicious off?

Im one of em. Do you think Kgray is looking shady here? Summit?

Are kgray and summit trying to save HR?

I'm really just suspecting that if HR were scum, he wouldn't be in the lead right now, or at least there would be resistance. It feels like a town wagon, even if perhaps it's town driven. There's just no fight. It is odd to see resistance popping up late.

If HR is scum, how would HR and his 2 scum partners have prevented HR from being in the lead at that point? Why was it odd to see late resistance, when you were such a big part of that late resistance?

[kgray]

Hamilton did say he scumread Summit, though.

He was scumreading about 6 people.

Well, sort of. He said he thought it's you, HR and someone of macca/summit/rivera. He never gave a reason for a summit scumread and hardly mentions him otherwise. So to end on summit when HR was a close option just doesn't make sense.

[kgray]

Now that our guests are gone, let me try to explain.

HR was lead wagon. My vote on Jamie was not going to garner anything with no one else moving. I felt less certain about Summit being town than Jamie. My vote made it 4HR/3Sum with some others behind.

Then I tended to my guests. Poured 3 of my beers for them. My time with the game was done until I could check back in.

As far as I was concerned, HR was going to go. I would have been more than happy with that.

Kgray, I think is in the clear. made a sensible move from Bozo to HB. Not a questionable move if the wagon was going to build on me.

I'm not of the mind right now but I think town needs to be looking at "who tied" and "who moved off the tie."

If I am going to go down, then it is imperative that we use the time remaining to build a case determining who the worse of the worse is. If I'm hung, that's going to be town down by 3 plus 1 due to Day3 mafia kill.

Sure, I've played a shit town game, but those of you looking solely at me are getting played by mafia. Let's figure out who they are, please.

What changed your mind to make you think summit was less likely to be town than Jamie? If you were more than happy with HR going, why not just vote for him? Why am I in the clear?

[bozotheclown]

I am town

##vote Ham

self preservation

see?

scummy af

Self-Preservation is not scummy.

If HB is scum then Vecna is a massive great scumread here, and Bo also looks pretty awful.

This post from D1 looks like the kind of post a scum would make when they know a player is about to flip town. If HR was bussing HB, he would also set up scum reads on Vecna and bo_sox when HB flipped scum.

[bozotheclown]

Now can we talk more about how many times HB flipped between damo & Jamie there?

Do you think HB was alternating between trying to save and trying to bus Jamie?

[summit_fever]

Why are you asking me this?

Sorry I misread.

Misread what? Why are you asking me why HB didn't vote his scumreads?

Yeah, why do you think I voted to kill him? I don't care, this is dumb, let's just kill one of those two and do it immediately. If you or Jamie are scum and those two (and/or rdrivera) aren't, good job, you got bailed out by morons.

##VOTE HB
##END

I find it a lot easier to believe that summit just fucked up because he wasn't spamming refresh hard enough than I do that HB had town motivation for voting outside of his scumreads to try and force the head to head to be me vs Summit, and I very much struggle to believe that HB & Summit are together after that.

[kgray]

Good job writing out an explanation of why you were changing vote and thus ensuring you missed the deadline, rdrivera. As for the rest of you... Just lol.


##vote Hamilton Brian
##END

Yeah, I'm not going to need any explanations about how scummy Hamiton's voting was this phase.

##vote Hamilton

Can you explain what you think the scum motivations for his votes were?

It just came out of nowhere, generally causing confusion and panic. And Hamilton had hardly mentioned summit before, but now that summit is suddenly an option at the EOD he wants him gone more than HR?

I don't understand what Hamilton's thought process is during voting. When he tried to explain his vote switches after D1 it didn't make sense to me, and this vote here makes no sense. If he's town and has a consistent scumread, why wouldn't he want to see that flip? I think Hamilton is scum who doesn't know where to put a vote and tries to come up with reasons afterwards that make sense - but they don't because they're not coming from a townie perspective.

I guess he also could have been protecting his scumbuddy HR. That would be a lot of busing, though.

[kgray]

What scum motivation do you see for HB's vote? Do you think scum is likely to make a suspicious looking vote that does nothing to help them?

Excellent logic Bozo. We should disregard suspicious votes because the scum won't do something so stupid, and therefore everyone who does something suspicious is town for it.

I already stated, numerous times and indeed at the very time he made the vote, that HB's vote was an opportunistic and cynical ploy to lock the two wagons into being Myself vs Summit. I do not see any other explanation for why he would vote anyone other than myself - who he had scumread all day and has clearly not changed his mind on scumreading. Perhaps you can come up with one for him?

That seems like a stretch to me. That would also make summit town. If HB is scum, who do you think are likely to be his teammates?

Well Hamilton did say he thought HR was going to flip, as it seemed for most of the day. Maybe he thought he could get in some quick busing of summit?

[summit_fever]

Really think Hamilton is the scummiest of these three

I don't

##vote hellenic

Did HB's unexplained vote for you not make you reconsider your read of him?

Not at the time no. It does look odd that he didn't even move to Hellenic at some point a bit later; his explanation was that he was away. Given that he became a top wagon as well and didn't react to it I don't find that unbelieveble.

[summit_fever]

##vote hamilton

What was the reason for switching your vote from Macca to HB D1?

I didn't like the jamie/damo wagons and HB was a null read of mine that other people said they were interested in voting for.

[kgray]

If HB's vote movement D1 between Jamie and damo and his vote for summit D2 were scum motivated, I do not see what he was trying to accomplish. It seems HB may just be an easy target for the mafia.

Do you think he was just confused, then? I was considering this on D1, but I don't see that on D2.

[kgray]

I still think Jamie's weird but I'm not loving sitting on a wagon with Hamilton, and his recent activity makes me think there are probably better options.

I'd consider sheeping Vecna but first let's see if anyone would ##vote bozo with me.

Okay, so no bozo today. I guess of the other people with votes, I'd prefer Hamilton > Jamie > HR > Summit > bo.

##vote Hamilton

Why would you consider following Vecna onto summit if summit was so far down your preferred kill order?

Because Vecna was basically townclear, so I trusted his reads more than anyone else's besides my own, and because despite summit being that far down on my list, he's a null, not a townread.

[Hellenic Riot]

I had originally not a good feeling about Bozo. This came form what seemed like more laid-back play he was doing. I comparison to the more aggressive, skilled townplay I've seen and heard him do in the past, it seemed suspicious.
His posting has however, gone up, and I'm feeling much better about him now. Especially after the detailed breakdowns he's given in the last couple of pages, which seem much more like the Bozo I espect.


My last read through has seen a lot of talk now about HR, and after going back over it, he is leaning towards scum.

For now:
##VOTE HR

What was your reason for thinking HR was a scum possibility when you voted for him?

Not gonna lie, I'm pretty gullible. Players I definitely trusted, like Vecna, were raising some pretty good points. Then you, who I was reading more and more town by the minute, gave out very detailed reasoning for why you believed it to be true.

Due to my limited understanding of the way people act in this game, following people who I believed were town and knowledgeable, seemed the right choice of action.

Similar reasoning and action will likely be used by me for the remainder of the game.

Vecna made good points? That's interesting, because he barely made any attempt to explain his vote on me at all. Could you go back and quote just what these 'pretty good points' about me that convinced you to vote me were?

[kgray]

I think Jamie is looking a lot more like his normal self this past half hour, although he can probably replicate that as scum.

Damo is acting so differently than how he did when I was scum with him.

I think Jamie's probably a better actor than damo, so between them I'd ##vote Jamie

Were you saying damo played poorly when he was scum with you?

No. When I was scum with damo I remember him being really abrasive in the early game, and here he seemed to be more laid-back. So I saw a difference in his tone from that game and thought it could indicate he's now town here.

[Jamiet99uk]

If you took half a second to actually look at D2, and then took another half a second to look at who HR is voting for/most heavily scumreads, you would know the answer to your own terrible question, bozo.

I agree with Bo_Sox here.

Bozo seems awfully disengaged from the game.

Why is that, Bozo?

If you agreed with bo_sox that the answer to my question was obvious, can you tell me what the answer was at the time? Why do you think bo_sox thought it was necessary to call a question I asked HR "terrible"?

It was really clear that Hellenic Riot had Hamilton Brian as his top D2 scumread. Hamilton Brian had voted HR really briefly (literally for 60 seconds according to the bot), but then plonked on me. Hamilton had declared he thought HR and myself were scum together. Having persisted in this view, HB then moved his vote to summit and left it there.

Hellenic Riot was calling out Brian for this, very visibly, and continuing to call him scum.

You then wandered in at the start of the current phase, and asked HR if he thought all 3 scum had been on his wagon during D2.

Obviously the answer was "no" because HR was shouting at HB, his top scumread, for *not* voting him (unless you count the 60 second vote early in D2).

Your question made it look as if you were not following the game, Bozo.

[rdrivera2005]

I think HB is the logical kill for today. He is either scum (most likely) or he will be the perfect scum target for a myskill on lylo. I know people don't like this kind of reasoning but town lost many games because ignored this kind of things.

I can't see why a town plays the way he did at EOD (same is valid to Summit). Bo I understand, I was also willing to follow Vecna to avoid a tie.

I still think HR is scum, but it will need to wait.

##vote Hamilton as I think the vote after EOD wasn't valid.

[bozotheclown]

Hamilton voting for summit when he did D2 looks like he was trying to save HR, yet HR took it as HB trying to set up town vs. town for the kill, although he did not explain the implied town read of summit. The more I look at it, I think HR bussing HB is a real possibility. A HR/HB/Jamie scum team would explain some of the odd voting and interactions between them.