M1015 - Super Mafioso Bros

[Hellenic Riot]

No, we still have a miskill because of the BP being hit D1.

I'd love to see any evidence that suggests the scum want hammers more often, as opposed to being happy to let a guaranteed kill take the full two days and thus kill the momentum of a game.

[Hellenic Riot]

Saying you shouldn't townread someone for mech-talk is very much not the same as saying you should scumread them for it, Bozo

[bozotheclown]

You really still want HB today? Lmao

Even when I fucking say "I'm going to make sure this vote doesn't end up tied" one person crossposts me, making me switch back, and then another person does something that would have tied it up DESPITE me saying "hey, I'm gonna do this at exactly this point in time if it's tied." What a fucking joke, summit.

You said you were going to vote for summit to break the tie, presumably to get summit killed, and you blame him for voting for another wagon?

This looks like you were trying to get summit to vote for HB to save HR, then when he voted for HR instead of HB, you had to switch back to HB to save HR yourself.

[bozotheclown]

Saying you shouldn't townread someone for mech-talk is very much not the same as saying you should scumread them for it, Bozo

Did you not know how tie votes work for mafia kills, as bo_sox seems to think?

[bozotheclown]

If you took half a second to actually look at D2, and then took another half a second to look at who HR is voting for/most heavily scumreads, you would know the answer to your own terrible question, bozo.

So what is the answer then?

[bo_sox48]

I don't think I really registered your statement. I just saw the runaway HB voting and wasn't happy with it.

Can you explain why you think Hamilton didn't vote his scumreads?

Why are you asking me this?

Sorry I misread.

Misread what? Why are you asking me why HB didn't vote his scumreads?

[bozotheclown]

Do you really think I would get any credit whatsoever for dumbtelling? That I would even bother trying?

I still do not know how you could think it was possible that damo was the mafia target.

If you are town, do you think all 3 scum voted for you D2?

I'm not even going to dignify that with a response

I do not understand your response. Who do you think the 3 mafia are?

[bozotheclown]

Looking at D2 EOD, it appears bo_sox was doing everything he could to save HR, including deliberately causing a tie instead of letting HR get killed, yet bo_sox immediately blamed summit, apparently for not letting himself get killed, and HR blamed rdrivera for voting for HB late. Too bad Foxcastle is not in the game.

[bozotheclown]

Like, how anyone can possibly think HB is town after that defies belief.


Oh, and for the record, my post at the end was in full recognition that it had been re-tied there, but as my only option to change that was to self-vote, I wasn't pissing our miskill away to eliminate myself. We still have a miskill remaining because of the scum hitting the BP D1.

What scum motivation do you see for HB's vote? Do you think scum is likely to make a suspicious looking vote that does nothing to help them?

[bozotheclown]

I will vote between Summit and HB today.

Which is your preference currently?

I think HB. But summit voting HR really annoys me. They could be scum together? HB vote seems to indicate not.

Why does summit's vote annoy you when you were voting for HR?

[Hellenic Riot]

Like, how anyone can possibly think HB is town after that defies belief.


Oh, and for the record, my post at the end was in full recognition that it had been re-tied there, but as my only option to change that was to self-vote, I wasn't pissing our miskill away to eliminate myself. We still have a miskill remaining because of the scum hitting the BP D1.

What scum motivation do you see for HB's vote? Do you think scum is likely to make a suspicious looking vote that does nothing to help them?

Excellent logic Bozo. We should disregard suspicious votes because the scum won't do something so stupid, and therefore everyone who does something suspicious is town for it.

I already stated, numerous times and indeed at the very time he made the vote, that HB's vote was an opportunistic and cynical ploy to lock the two wagons into being Myself vs Summit. I do not see any other explanation for why he would vote anyone other than myself - who he had scumread all day and has clearly not changed his mind on scumreading. Perhaps you can come up with one for him?

[Hellenic Riot]

I still do not know how you could think it was possible that damo was the mafia target.

If you are town, do you think all 3 scum voted for you D2?

I'm not even going to dignify that with a response

I do not understand your response. Who do you think the 3 mafia are?

HB did not vote me D2. You asked if I think all 3 mafia voted me D2. What planet are you on where that makes any sense whatsoever?

[bozotheclown]

Good job writing out an explanation of why you were changing vote and thus ensuring you missed the deadline, rdrivera. As for the rest of you... Just lol.


##vote Hamilton Brian
##END

Yeah, I'm not going to need any explanations about how scummy Hamiton's voting was this phase.

##vote Hamilton

Can you explain what you think the scum motivations for his votes were?

[bo_sox48]

It does make sense for HR not to know the "mechanics of tie votes" any more than it does for him to think it was possible damo was the mafia target. rdrivera had already pointed out D1 why what HR was saying was unlikely to happen, even before damo turned out to be day-kill.

HR told us himself why we should scum read him for this:

Putting its validity aside this is a towny post.

So ##unvote.

Guess I'm in the lead now.

Is it, though? Mechanics-talk is and will always be the easiest thing to fake as scum, because it's very easy to approach a setup from a mechanical perspective and work out the best strategies for it regardless of your role.

Still, it's nice to not be voted

I am assuming that you meant "it doesn't make sense" and rolling with that.

What is so irrational about thinking it possible damo was the target? I already demonstrated to you that it was possible, albeit unlikely, that damo was an early target and they didn't have the chance to change. He played quite well last game, and perhaps a team comprised of some newer players that don't have a long background here saw that performance and gave him the early ax. We know that's not the case now, but it wasn't impossible.

That said, we can take away from Vecna's double tap that someone, if not more than one someone, on the scumteam is quite experienced and remembers Vecna's older performances when he was pretty good. I know just from experience that Vecna keeps rdrivera under a microscope, so it makes sense between his experience recently and his experience way back when that he might decide to fearkill him. I haven't seen any reason to townread rdrivera - have you?

Figure for me that HR is town. How do you interpret D1 and D2 given that assumption?

[bozotheclown]

I'm not even going to dignify that with a response

I do not understand your response. Who do you think the 3 mafia are?

HB did not vote me D2. You asked if I think all 3 mafia voted me D2. What planet are you on where that makes any sense whatsoever?

I meant vote for you at any time D2, not just end voting for you. HB did vote for you D2.

[bozotheclown]

Like, how anyone can possibly think HB is town after that defies belief.


Oh, and for the record, my post at the end was in full recognition that it had been re-tied there, but as my only option to change that was to self-vote, I wasn't pissing our miskill away to eliminate myself. We still have a miskill remaining because of the scum hitting the BP D1.

What scum motivation do you see for HB's vote? Do you think scum is likely to make a suspicious looking vote that does nothing to help them?

Excellent logic Bozo. We should disregard suspicious votes because the scum won't do something so stupid, and therefore everyone who does something suspicious is town for it.

I already stated, numerous times and indeed at the very time he made the vote, that HB's vote was an opportunistic and cynical ploy to lock the two wagons into being Myself vs Summit. I do not see any other explanation for why he would vote anyone other than myself - who he had scumread all day and has clearly not changed his mind on scumreading. Perhaps you can come up with one for him?

That seems like a stretch to me. That would also make summit town. If HB is scum, who do you think are likely to be his teammates?

[Hellenic Riot]

I do not understand your response. Who do you think the 3 mafia are?

HB did not vote me D2. You asked if I think all 3 mafia voted me D2. What planet are you on where that makes any sense whatsoever?

I meant vote for you at any time D2, not just end voting for you. HB did vote for you D2.

HB voted me for a grand total of one minute with over a day of the phase remaining. The only people who did not vote me at any point were kgray and Bo. If your question is 'Do I townread Kgray and Bo', you should really try stating that instead of asking in dumb roundabout manners.

And to answer: Bo's D1 EoD still smells of protecting HB, and I can buy that he would bus him D2, so I am not going to give him a free townread just for not voting me there. Kgray was also very slow to vote HB despite agreeing that he was scummy for most of the day, but the speed at which kgray voted HB after his horrendous vote there and the fact kgray was the first person to join me on HB is a massive plus point, so I do townread kgray for that.

[Hellenic Riot]

What scum motivation do you see for HB's vote? Do you think scum is likely to make a suspicious looking vote that does nothing to help them?

Excellent logic Bozo. We should disregard suspicious votes because the scum won't do something so stupid, and therefore everyone who does something suspicious is town for it.

I already stated, numerous times and indeed at the very time he made the vote, that HB's vote was an opportunistic and cynical ploy to lock the two wagons into being Myself vs Summit. I do not see any other explanation for why he would vote anyone other than myself - who he had scumread all day and has clearly not changed his mind on scumreading. Perhaps you can come up with one for him?

That seems like a stretch to me. That would also make summit town. If HB is scum, who do you think are likely to be his teammates?

I would anticipate that at least one person who stayed on me is scum there. Of those summaries of reasons why people were voting me that I put up a couple of hours before EoD, the way Macca had just openly sheeped without being able to give any explanation whatsoever was undoubtedly the worst. Though rdrivera also had an exceedingly poor EoD. I'm also somewhat confused as to why Jamie got off of me when I was still the lead wagon with a couple minutes to go, but I don't really see a scum motivation there (deliberately tying isn't a smart scum ploy when it doesn't waste our miskill as was the case here).

And yes, I have stated repeatedly that I think Summit is probably town because of what HB did there. Is there anything else that I've said multiple times that you need to me to repeat for you so that you don't have to read it yourself?

[bo_sox48]

Looking at D2 EOD, it appears bo_sox was doing everything he could to save HR, including deliberately causing a tie instead of letting HR get killed, yet bo_sox immediately blamed summit, apparently for not letting himself get killed, and HR blamed rdrivera for voting for HB late. Too bad Foxcastle is not in the game.

A world of misrepresentation, but I can't call that malicious because I don't think you're intelligent enough to interpret things correctly. I announced quite plainly that if the vote were tied I would break the tie by moving from HB to summit. I did that with 1 minute and 30 seconds to go. With 30 seconds to go, which - you can count, right? - is 60 seconds later, I refreshed the page, saw no change, so I moved to break the tie. Simultaneously, having ignored me completely, Vecna changed to HB, which meant that my crossposted vote had just tied it again. So I changed back to HB in order to, again, make sure that there was no tie. It was totally unselfish of me, allowing Vecna, a clear who I had some faith in, the opportunity to decide who the lynch was one way or another between HB and summit and sticking with that even if he made his move too late.

While this was going on, summit decided to participate in the EOD after sitting idle for some time prior alone on a wagon that didn't exist. He moved from me, where he was on his own, to HR, which gave HR 4 votes. By the time I had gone back to voting for HB after Vecna crossposted me, there were only a few seconds left in the phase and no time to change again, not that I would have let summit manipulate my unselfish and otherwise useful plan to decide himself who the lynch would be anyway without providing any relevant input during the EOD.

If summit were voting for "not letting himself get killed" as you claim, he would have voted for HB, because HB is where the momentum was and HB is the one who was leading the vote before he tied it. He was simply not participating and paying attention and fucked it up as a result.

[bozotheclown]

It does make sense for HR not to know the "mechanics of tie votes" any more than it does for him to think it was possible damo was the mafia target. rdrivera had already pointed out D1 why what HR was saying was unlikely to happen, even before damo turned out to be day-kill.

HR told us himself why we should scum read him for this:

Is it, though? Mechanics-talk is and will always be the easiest thing to fake as scum, because it's very easy to approach a setup from a mechanical perspective and work out the best strategies for it regardless of your role.

Still, it's nice to not be voted

I am assuming that you meant "it doesn't make sense" and rolling with that.

What is so irrational about thinking it possible damo was the target? I already demonstrated to you that it was possible, albeit unlikely, that damo was an early target and they didn't have the chance to change. He played quite well last game, and perhaps a team comprised of some newer players that don't have a long background here saw that performance and gave him the early ax. We know that's not the case now, but it wasn't impossible.

That said, we can take away from Vecna's double tap that someone, if not more than one someone, on the scumteam is quite experienced and remembers Vecna's older performances when he was pretty good. I know just from experience that Vecna keeps rdrivera under a microscope, so it makes sense between his experience recently and his experience way back when that he might decide to fearkill him. I haven't seen any reason to townread rdrivera - have you?

Figure for me that HR is town. How do you interpret D1 and D2 given that assumption?

Yes, I meant it doesn't make sense, why do you think HR did not read the setup?

Even if damo was under consideration by the mafia early, despite Vecna and Jamie voting for him early, there was more than enough warning that damo was at risk of getting killed, so I do not understand you or HR keep arguing it was a reasonable possibility.

If I were to assume you are town and have a strong town read of HR, I would say you might have gone to a lot of trouble saving someone you may be mistaken about.