Mafia 57 Matrix

[Tom Bombadil]

I like emc's EOD d1.

He moved from summit to flash with 17 mintues left. That would be a move that gets attention as it was very impactful. We know it was town v town.

I don't really see scum wanting to draw that much attention to themselves there. Scum emc would be content to stay on his wagon, especially considering everyone was ragging on him for being lurky and not committing to votes. He would have an easy meta justification for staying put and town still would have been voted out.

[rdrivera2005]

"until now half of it flipped town" is not like you. The fact that the town members on the wagon have flipped says little to nothing about the rest of the members.

You may be right that smart scum play is to stay away. But isn't it also smart scum play to push a non-VT to the masses? Is it possible to push that WITHOUT also joining the wagon?

The rest of the members are me and Bismarck. I know I am town and Bismarck just joined when the wagon was already at 3 and didn't talk much about Damo. It could be an opportunistic scum, but he didn't push the wagon so your logic about scum pushing Damo doesn't stand. I know I have a unique POV, but I don't understand why you can't acknowledge this.

I can acknowledge your unique POV. But the statement "The others flipped town, so clearly scum weren't on the wagon" was not your strongest moment.

In fact, I'd say it makes Bismarck look even worse the dynamic you're suggesting. Silently moving to a wagon and hoping another town joins and looks like the bad guy is the BEST way a scum can push. It also explains why no other scum wanted to join the wagon after him; that'd be too much.

I didn't say "clearly scum weren't on the wagon". I said scun didn't push the wagon, it was all town that pushed it (Demon, me and Bozo). Why you keep distorting what I say?

This said, Bismarck is a possible scum, it would explain no more people joining Damo wagon when it reached 4. But his post today really looks like noob town, I don't get your scum slip, do you think that post is fabricated? Why he would do that?

[Hamilton Brian]

@Rdrivera, is there anything you're seeing/reading that would encourage you to move your vote from Bunny to Bismarck?

[rdrivera2005]

Looking at the wagons, I could see a world where rdr was scum and protected. His wagon dissipated pretty quickly with about 5 hours left to go.

Could be scum building other wagons to get him out of the danger zone.

My enormous 3 vote wagon dissipated with 5 hours left when Nanook voted Bunny and Damo unvoted. I can't see what you are talking about.
I thought Damo was saved D1, but this is obviously false, so the only other one that could have really been saved is emc.

[rdrivera2005]

@Rdrivera, is there anything you're seeing/reading that would encourage you to move your vote from Bunny to Bismarck?

Don't you think if there was something I would have already moved?
I would not mind flipping Bismarck,but I think he is less likely to be scum then Bunny.

[Tom Bombadil]

Looking at the wagons, I could see a world where rdr was scum and protected. His wagon dissipated pretty quickly with about 5 hours left to go.

Could be scum building other wagons to get him out of the danger zone.

My enormous 3 vote wagon dissipated with 5 hours left when Nanook voted Bunny and Damo unvoted. I can't see what you are talking about.
I thought Damo was saved D1, but this is obviously false, so the only other one that could have really been saved is emc.

Do you believe emc is scum and was saved or no?

[BunnyGo]

<subquotes snipped>

"Damo wagon is hugely suspect". Until now half of it flipped town.

Here is your post in its entirety (minus my post you quoted).

Anyways, "fabricated" isn't the word I'd use. "Throwing shade" would be better. I think he was trying to sound like he was considering options. But the option he was considering requires:

1) Scum to not know who they role blocked
2) Bismarck to know who was roleblocked (not for the scenario, BUT TO THINK TO SUGGEST IT)

[BunnyGo]

Looking at the wagons, I could see a world where rdr was scum and protected. His wagon dissipated pretty quickly with about 5 hours left to go.

Could be scum building other wagons to get him out of the danger zone.

My enormous 3 vote wagon dissipated with 5 hours left when Nanook voted Bunny and Damo unvoted. I can't see what you are talking about.
I thought Damo was saved D1, but this is obviously false, so the only other one that could have really been saved is emc.

Just like to point out to you, *I* explicitly "saved' damo both pre-EOD1 and in my explanation post-EOD1.

[Hamilton Brian]

I like emc's EOD d1.

@Tom, are you reading EMC as town then? If so, what else are you going on beside how they performed EOD?

[Tom Bombadil]

I like emc's EOD d1.

@Tom, are you reading EMC as town then? If so, what else are you going on beside how they performed EOD?

Nothing - just that.

[Tom Bombadil]

Looking at the wagons, I could see a world where rdr was scum and protected. His wagon dissipated pretty quickly with about 5 hours left to go.

Could be scum building other wagons to get him out of the danger zone.

My enormous 3 vote wagon dissipated with 5 hours left when Nanook voted Bunny and Damo unvoted. I can't see what you are talking about.
I thought Damo was saved D1, but this is obviously false, so the only other one that could have really been saved is emc.

Just like to point out to you, *I* explicitly "saved' damo both pre-EOD1 and in my explanation post-EOD1.

What point are you trying to make here Bunny? Am I missing something?

[Hamilton Brian]

Don't you think if there was something I would have already moved?
I would not mind flipping Bismarck,but I think he is less likely to be scum then Bunny.

Maybe. Just asking.

[Hamilton Brian]

Nothing - just that.

But you're reading them as town?

[Tom Bombadil]

Nothing - just that.

But you're reading them as town?

correct.

[BunnyGo]

My enormous 3 vote wagon dissipated with 5 hours left when Nanook voted Bunny and Damo unvoted. I can't see what you are talking about.
I thought Damo was saved D1, but this is obviously false, so the only other one that could have really been saved is emc.

Just like to point out to you, *I* explicitly "saved' damo both pre-EOD1 and in my explanation post-EOD1.

What point are you trying to make here Bunny? Am I missing something?

Rdr apparently scum reads me for my movement at EOD. And also think our PR was saved. But doesn’t put the two together.

[bo_sox48]

##VOTE Nanook

[Foxcastle]

Ended up with a busy weekend, going hiking now, but will be around later today.

Enjoy the hike.

Thank you, I did. And now...

1. Okay, so I see that overnight was pretty much the BunnyGo Show follow by Late Night With Nanook...

2. Damo is not mechanically cleared, not even close. Why do people (Nanook, Bunny) think this? My townread on him is because I don't think scum would do that kind of stunt in general, but specifically because no one has countered his claim. Given he was a D1 wagon, it is possible he is a scum goon and decided to get a mis-flip and to force PRs to CC him before he went out, and now that it's just really working out for him so far. But if that's the case, then the actual PRs know he's scum and are just playing it cool. We should follow their lead. (I see now Bunny caught up on this...)

Damo’s literally never scum he’d have to be insane and/or the stupidest mafia player I’ve ever seen, you never go one for one as mafia for a VT on D2. You just don’t.

I think Damo could, actually, if he thought he was surely doomed for the flip on D2. But I also don't think he was actually doomed to be the flip, so...

3. Hellenic Riot makes some good points and pressure on Nanook.

4. Tom has seemed townie to me, but now I'm less sure from what I've seen so far today.

5. BunnyGo's post 1544 (Drunk Bunny worrying about being dumb) is strikingly similar to how he posted in the game he was scum. Invoking a Bozo-style list seems like fake effort. Then when ghug calls him on it, turns around and starts questioning ghug on theory—that looks to me like he's just trying to keep talking.

5.

So you guys don't think *any* scum were on lone wagons at end of D1? Has meta changed that much?

At this point, that's only TheFlyingBoat... So whether anyone thinks that is probably dependent on whether they think he's scum or not.

6. It's halfway through D3 and we only have 13 votes. We'll get no information from Day 2, so we need wagons and movement today. ##VOTE BUNNY

[Hamilton Brian]

@Foxcastle, great. Scurry my brain some more! :)

So why do you not think Damo is cleared? What might be missing?

I am going to chew over your 2nd point over supper.

Do you read Hellenic as either town or scum, or just that they're making good points?

Regarding Tom, what is it that is increasing your uncertainty about them? I felt like most of their responses were stable, secure. But maybe that's it right there?

[Nanook]

##VOTE Nanook

BLAND

[Foxcastle]

So why do you not think Damo is cleared? What might be missing?

I am going to chew over your 2nd point over supper.

I explain pretty directly why Damo is not mechanically cleared. I think he is likely town. "Mechanically cleared" and terms like "town clear" result from definitive GM announcements or proof that would be impossible to generate if one weren't a PR (for example, a cop scan that turns out to be true, or a doc save confirmed by another player), rather than deduction. Had Demon flipped scum, that would have been mechanically clear. So, absent any of that, Damo is not clear.

Do you read Hellenic as either town or scum, or just that they're making good points?

Regarding Tom, what is it that is increasing your uncertainty about them? I felt like most of their responses were stable, secure. But maybe that's it right there?

These are just reactions to their overall tone. Tom seems more defensive or brusque than I think his baseline is. I like how HR is playing, he has some good posts where he works through some things, and as I said, I like the pushback on Nanook, but there's not a lot of material to go on. I would say he and Nanook are not scum together based on that exchange, though.