Mafia 56: Scout Camp

[worcej]

It's not meaningless

Yes it is.

Reducing the 5 team possibilities by 94% based on piles doesn't matter in actually finding a scum player.

The possible teams will rapidly reduce after deaths occur.

Obviously this is true, but again who cares about the team possibilities now? You need flips to narrow it down further and then look at interactions.

The math is also meaningless because you are looking at groups instead of individuals and what they are doing.

[worcej]

##Vote bobmcbob

I dont think worcej can be this counter intuitive and haughty as scum. hes very aggressive, very fiesty. this just isnt his scum meta

Here is your normal read of me finally surfacing.

[rdrivera2005]

First annoying person found on re-read. Not shocked.

Would love some of your spicy original recipe tales from the maf crypt with how damo thinks as a wolflord

Damo is actually a great wolf - he posts short and sweet and doesn't stick his neck out while stating his opinions.

I think Damo play this game is more like his town meta, he doesn't engage much on D1 when he was town.

[rdrivera2005]

I could see rivera being scum here too.

Unvoting and not doing anything with his vote for such a long time doesn't look good.

Maybe I had to work?

[worcej]

Would love some of your spicy original recipe tales from the maf crypt with how damo thinks as a wolflord

Damo is actually a great wolf - he posts short and sweet and doesn't stick his neck out while stating his opinions.

I think Damo play this game is more like his town meta, he doesn't engage much on D1 when he was town.

Nor did he as scum really, he is just doing his D1 normal actions right now. However, you are missing a key point: I scumlean him for just brazenly starting the claims without consensus - I don't feel like this fits the whole 'doesn't engage much' mantra.

I also scumlean him for the meaningless math to try to look like he is solving and using it for grounds to justify the massclaim.

[worcej]

Once Chaqa decided to claim, I'll put my claim in. Making this official

[worcej]

decides*

[Chaqa]

Well I’m in no rush to claim nor do I understand the benefit of doing so.

[rdrivera2005]

Massclaim Count

PR: xorxes, Vecna, flash, emc, TFB, Bismarck (6)
VT: damo, rdrivera, HR, bozo, Durga, Donny, summit, brainbomb, Macca, BobMcBob (10)

Have not heard from since PR/VT mass claim began:
Chaqa, TRC

Others:
worcej, JF

4 more and we make history with the first ever D1 massclaim! Only one way to find out how this strategy gets converted to a win. This should be good for us clean scouts, so I agree we should lynch 1 of the 4 non-claimants.

We had a D1 massclaim in the Parliament game, which ultimately broke the game.

I was in the Mafia team in that game. It broke the game in town's favor. You can say it break the game but not that it's bad for town, it makes no sense.

[rdrivera2005]

Because anyone that is town with a damn brain should've seen this through and been saying the claim is bad because of it.

Yet I don't see many people doing that. I am beginning to wonder if there are only 5 town and 15 scum.

Not sure if you think being obnoxious makes you look more towny.

I'm still not sure if you think the massclaim is bad because it "breaks the game" (makes the game too easy for town), or whether it is bad because it makes the game easier for scum. You have argued both sides of that, which is contradictory.

How is it contradictory?

It breaks the game because we start just picking people out of piles. The game is deduction and investigation. You may think that continues, but just looking at one group at a time and swapping back and forth is dumb.

It helps the scum because it highlights a perfect group for them to kill in and allows the scum to make themselves look better by focusing on specific players and not have to focus on others.

Sorry, you answered. Still don't agree with the answer.

[rdrivera2005]

@worcej. Will you claim if Chaqa claims or does thereal have to be around as well?

@chaqa. We also need to know if you will claim.

I don’t think I’ve got an adequate comprehension of how the games progressed to make that decision yet

##vote Chaqa - You have enough info to know you need to claim if you are town.

[worcej]

Massclaim Count

PR: xorxes, Vecna, flash, emc, TFB, Bismarck (6)
VT: damo, rdrivera, HR, bozo, Durga, Donny, summit, brainbomb, Macca, BobMcBob (10)

Have not heard from since PR/VT mass claim began:
Chaqa, TRC

Others:
worcej, JF

4 more and we make history with the first ever D1 massclaim! Only one way to find out how this strategy gets converted to a win. This should be good for us clean scouts, so I agree we should lynch 1 of the 4 non-claimants.

We had a D1 massclaim in the Parliament game, which ultimately broke the game.

I was in the Mafia team in that game. It broke the game in town's favor. You can say it break the game but not that it's bad for town, it makes no sense.

I'll condense this down for you:

Based on the setup of this game, a smart scum team should be able to take advantage of the claims in this game because nothing is truly verifiable other than alignment on flips. The scum team should at minimum have 2 PR claims and they should sort themselves into the two piles of two town PRs, thus having a 2 3-way standoff situations. The scum continue to kill in the PR pile and keep the VT pile as high as possible as we continue to lynch only in that pool.

[rdrivera2005]

Well I’m in no rush to claim nor do I understand the benefit of doing so.

With 17 people having already claimed do you think you still have an option to not claim? You have played enough to know the pros and cons of a massclaim and also to know that after 7 (maybe less) PR claimed there is no town reason to not claim.

[bozotheclown]

Well I’m in no rush to claim nor do I understand the benefit of doing so.

17 of 20 players have claimed PR or VT, so the missing information from you and the 2 others who have not claimed is hurting town.

[Hellenic Riot]

So is there any particular reason why people have jumped on rdrivera here? I'm seeing an awful lot of votes get thrown around now without explanation.

As I lack the 'meta' on people like damo, I'm here to just evaluate his actions: Which have so far been to claim horribly early while lacking support (P14), disappear, return with some maths & mech talk (P21), disappear again, return with some mathematics (P28), and then finally get off his arse and engage in some actual gameplay by asking xorxes about Bozo and then defending Bozo (P35).

In summary, a pretty poor day, and aside from two early scumreads on myself & Durga that he hasn't mentioned at any point since, his one and only read contribution of the game has been this townread defence on Bozo.


@xorxes

You mentioned that I've been underwhelming so far, what exactly did you mean here? Much as I'd love to have a reputation for game solver extraordinaire to have developed for me during my long absence I don't really think that's likely to have happened, and I think I've engaged a reasonable amount so far.


@Chaqa
Aside from making an awful big deal out of not reading the setup or indeed the game, what exactly are you hoping to achieve by both holding out on claiming and by not attempting to find the mafia here? And how exactly do you anticipate being read for such a zero effort game?

[bozotheclown]

We had a D1 massclaim in the Parliament game, which ultimately broke the game.

I was in the Mafia team in that game. It broke the game in town's favor. You can say it break the game but not that it's bad for town, it makes no sense.

I'll condense this down for you:

Based on the setup of this game, a smart scum team should be able to take advantage of the claims in this game because nothing is truly verifiable other than alignment on flips. The scum team should at minimum have 2 PR claims and they should sort themselves into the two piles of two town PRs, thus having a 2 3-way standoff situations. The scum continue to kill in the PR pile and keep the VT pile as high as possible as we continue to lynch only in that pool.

Bismarck is correct that you seem to be advising the mafia. The only way we will have 2 scum PRs claims is if you, Chaqa, and TRC claim PR. Are you telling them that is what they should do?

[summit_fever]

Well I’m in no rush to claim nor do I understand the benefit of doing so.

With 17 people having already claimed do you think you still have an option to not claim? You have played enough to know the pros and cons of a massclaim and also to know that after 7 (maybe less) PR claimed there is no town reason to not claim.

I agree with this. The logic of massclaiming seems straightforward.

I also agree with worcej's arguments (that this setup might not be the best to massclaim in) but the torpedo is already in the water and a bunch of PRs are sitting on the ship.

##vote chaqa

[bozotheclown]

##vote Chaqa

[bozotheclown]

Maybe TRC is the missing PR.

[Vecna]

@worcej. Will you claim if Chaqa claims or does thereal have to be around as well?

@chaqa. We also need to know if you will claim.

I don’t think I’ve got an adequate comprehension of how the games progressed to make that decision yet

Its the right thing to do chaqa. Sooner preferably than later so Worcej will claim as well before this day is over.