Mafia 56: Scout Camp

[BismarckAlive]

Donny Dude
Brainbomb
Worcej

My top scum reads thus far into the thread...

[BismarckAlive]

We know there are 10 buddy pairs, of which most likely 4 contain a scum (assumes one is S-S, the rest are S-T)

Not sure if worcej being so careless with these numbers means he is more likely town or scum. I'm leaning town.

Interesting...I lean scum. Worcej is way too cunning. He was trying to fuel the massclaim car by making it sound better...

[e.m.c^42]

There has been a slight issue in reasoning for scumreads so far but I am too sleep needy to suss it out. Note for later.

[Donny Dude]

Bismarck I may dislike that I am on your list, but I think you have a good thought process. You seem Town to me.

[bozotheclown]

"When a player is sent home, their full role will not be revealed. Their alignment (dirty/clean) will be revealed, but their powers (if they have any) will not be revealed."

This is why we should mass claim PR or VT D1. Depending on how many players claim PR, we can decide the best time for PRs to claim their exact role to quickly eliminate any scum claiming PR.

[bozotheclown]

Hm, wonder where bozo went, is he not usually posted at this point in game? Hope he's doing all right.

Thanks for the concern.

[bozotheclown]

should the people in buddy chats claim they are or should we keep that on the DL

I'm waiting for an answer from GM on that. It depends on whether the QTs could be compromised later even if you trust your buddy.

I do not understand this exchange, either I misunderstood the question or xorxes did.

[bozotheclown]

I think it's 8 clears if all scum claim VT. We will have a pool of 12 to lynch from.
I don't like massclaims but this look like good odds for town, maybe not on D1 but later so the most usefull PRs can use his powers at least once.

Later is less useful because there will be people whose roles we won't be able to know.

True, I forgot the no role reveal. But I think scum will also not know what roles the NK had, so it will be hard for them to claim a PR.

It would still cause uncertainly later.

[bozotheclown]

Later is less useful because there will be people whose roles we won't be able to know.

True, I forgot the no role reveal. But I think scum will also not know what roles the NK had, so it will be hard for them to claim a PR.

Will role switches complicate clears though from what is remaining?

I am not sure what you mean by this.

[bozotheclown]

Later is less useful because there will be people whose roles we won't be able to know.

True, I forgot the no role reveal. But I think scum will also not know what roles the NK had, so it will be hard for them to claim a PR.

I hate mass claims, first and foremost, so take that into consideration as I address this:

I imagine we will generate a group of people claiming PR, which will be higher than 8, and also a group of non-PRs, forcing the lynches in the non-PR group as the scum kill off PR players.

This situation reminds me of the Kitsune game - where we had people claim PR or not-PR. I intentionally claimed PR as a scum GF to try to muddy the waters. My gut says 2/5 'dirty boys' will claim PR to hide out in as they slowly thin the town PR claims.

The more scum claiming PR, the better.

[bozotheclown]

True, I forgot the no role reveal. But I think scum will also not know what roles the NK had, so it will be hard for them to claim a PR.

I hate mass claims, first and foremost, so take that into consideration as I address this:

I imagine we will generate a group of people claiming PR, which will be higher than 8, and also a group of non-PRs, forcing the lynches in the non-PR group as the scum kill off PR players.

This situation reminds me of the Kitsune game - where we had people claim PR or not-PR. I intentionally claimed PR as a scum GF to try to muddy the waters. My gut says 2/5 'dirty boys' will claim PR to hide out in as they slowly thin the town PR claims.

If we claim the exact role they can't do that. Only the Doc A and B should claim only Doc to have a 50/50 to not be roleblocked.

The A and B roles are not informed if they are A or B.

[bozotheclown]

I hate mass claims, first and foremost, so take that into consideration as I address this:

I imagine we will generate a group of people claiming PR, which will be higher than 8, and also a group of non-PRs, forcing the lynches in the non-PR group as the scum kill off PR players.

This situation reminds me of the Kitsune game - where we had people claim PR or not-PR. I intentionally claimed PR as a scum GF to try to muddy the waters. My gut says 2/5 'dirty boys' will claim PR to hide out in as they slowly thin the town PR claims.

If we claim the exact role they can't do that. Only the Doc A and B should claim only Doc to have a 50/50 to not be roleblocked.

Right, so forcing our PR's to expose themselves (minus a letter for some of them) is worth it for 8 clears and 12 unknowns?

If you're willing to do that, why don't we just no lynch and claim our buddies? Scum can slowly pick off two of us and narrow down the pool that way instead.

I assume this is a joke.

[bozotheclown]

We know there are 10 buddy pairs, of which most likely 4 contain a scum (assumes one is S-S, the rest are S-T)

9 buddy pairs, and two unpaired.

Ah, disregard then. Besides being a meh idea anyways, town would expose a lot for little to gain.

I do not understand how what you suggested had any town gain at all.

[bozotheclown]

I already stated in the signups I would hardveto a massclaim. So lets not waste 30 pages discussing the merits abd just play proper mafia instead of what the setup

As usual, I believe we have a difference of opinion on what constitutes "proper mafia". My idea of "proper mafia" is to do everything you can within the rules to win.

[bozotheclown]

Since I'm clueless, would someone mind explaining how the massclaim would work to get it 5/12? Because switches are a thing and I fail to see how the massclaim would function.

The switches have no effect on a mass claim, all town know if they are a PR or VT.

[bozotheclown]

ooh massclaim discussion. I think that's fair. I won't pretend to understand the ramifications of the setup but discussion on whether a massclaim could benefit town seems warranted.

Brainbomb votes durga for no stated reason; finds an unvote by posting the miniature rules; starts talk of a massclaim; hardclaims bullshit; then votes bobbymcbobface. Hmm. Vecna and Brainbomb both casting aspersions on Donny.

Liking Xorxes again as town. Most others seem okay. Vecna and Brainbomb deserve a watch.

So what is your opinion on a mass claim?

[bozotheclown]

Because I love it when Vecna towns me. It never changes anyone's minds but it always makes me feel good. He's one of the few people who is able to look past the defensiveness and townreads me despite it (or because of it)

How do you know if Vecna is town, though?

[bozotheclown]

So far one common thread had been the debate over mass claims which I think is a terrible idea. The double buddy NK means letting mafia figure out who the buddy pairs are very dangerous. Finding out who the buddyless people are through PR claims are an easy way for them to narrow the list down and get a couple double NKs which could be potentially lethal to our ability to win. I'm in favor of playing the game without a mass claim where we gain little useful info.

We definitely should not be making any buddy claims, but claiming PR or VT does very little in helping the mafia identify buddy pairs.

[bozotheclown]

Rather than trying to take a vote on who supports or opposes a PR vs. VT mass claim, I am going to maintain a list of everyone who has opposed it to try to accelerate getting a consensus.

First, the reasons I think a D1 PR vs. VT mass claim is a benefit to town:

1. It will either give us 8 town clears or give us easily identifiable scum who have claimed PR.

2. It will prevent scum from making PR claims to avoid getting lynched.

3. It makes sure we know when a PR has been NKed so that scum will not be able to make PR claims late in the game when we would have no way of verifying if the claims are true.

4. Late in the game, the mafia is going to have enough information about buddy pairs to make reasonable guesses about town/town pairs, which means town can't afford too many mislynches to start the game. This makes narrowing down the lynch pool important to give town our best chance of winning.

Expressed opposition to mass claim:

I already stated in the signups I would hardveto a massclaim. So lets not waste 30 pages discussing the merits abd just play proper mafia instead of what the setup

I already stated in the signups I would hardveto a massclaim. So lets not waste 30 pages discussing the merits abd just play proper mafia instead of what the setup

Agreed.

So far one common thread had been the debate over mass claims which I think is a terrible idea. The double buddy NK means letting mafia figure out who the buddy pairs are very dangerous. Finding out who the buddyless people are through PR claims are an easy way for them to narrow the list down and get a couple double NKs which could be potentially lethal to our ability to win. I'm in favor of playing the game without a mass claim where we gain little useful info.

[TheMadMonarch]

I don't fully understand this "massclaim" thing, but it doesn't seem like a good idea.

How exactly does it help us?