M1011 - Revenge of the Space Mutants - Game Thread

[Jamiet99uk]

VOTE COUNT 3.7
​
damo666(6) - worcej, Chaqa, Tom Bombadil, BunnyGo, bozotheclown, foodcoats
BunnyGo(2) - Kgray, Damo666
Chaqa(1) - Vecna

Currently DAMO is set for lynch.

ONE HOUR remains in Day Three.

[worcej]

@worcej, even if you’re right that it’s terrible play, do you really think there’s no way town!damo would make that play? Lots of people disagree with you so even if we’re all wrong, it can’t be something that only scum would do.

Damo is pretty logical and been through many games, so no I don’t think he would do something like this as town.

[worcej]

Honestly, I probably need a break from webDip mafia - I am actually angry seeing people justify the selfish behavior of saving yourself as a VT as town. It is beyond retarded - you deprive your team of information to help them win.

To me, everyone who thinks it’s okay to do that needs to check their ego at the door. 99% of the time, this is a team game. You don’t win as an individual unless you’re a 3p. The scum team works together to overcome the town majority and win. Depriving your team of information intentionally just so that you can stay alive is a selfish, terrible play.

Let’s discuss this after the game, because I still disagree.

Which strikes me as irrational when you made the statement that it was a disastrous result for town.

[Vecna]

##vote BunnyGo

[kgray]

I don't know what else to say about this except that I do not think damo should be the lynch. He's been playing how he's played as town, so while I agree that he seems scummy and illogical, imo he's proven this is how he acts as either alignment. Same with him tying the vote to save himself - it's NAI. I don't care right now if its the correct play or not, it's something that both scum and non-worcej town would do.

It really seems like the main argument people are making to lynch damo is that D1 couldn't have been TvT and I absolutely hate this reasoning. I see no reason at all why that isn't possible, and I am very concerned that this assumption is about to lose us the game. This is almost exactly how damo and I lost M54 as town. Everyone assumed the tied wagons (me and damo) couldn't be TvT, and scum tried to convince everyone that the next lynch should again be between me or damo. Damo voted for me with the scumteam and we lost because of the assumption that both wagons couldn't be town.. I get that some people won't be as convinced by this point because they weren't there (or they were scum in that game, so maybe it didn't stick with them as much). But I can't shake this feeling that we're about to lose the same way we lost that game, based on the same assumptions.

I'm convinced bunny is scum here, regardless of damo's alignment. Bunny should be the lynch.

[Jamiet99uk]

VOTE COUNT 3.8
​
damo666(6) - worcej, Chaqa, Tom Bombadil, BunnyGo, bozotheclown, foodcoats
BunnyGo(3) - Kgray, Damo666, Vecna

Currently DAMO is set for lynch.

30 minutes remain in Day Three.

[Tom Bombadil]

Condensed case on Bunny?

[Vecna]

is that you feigning interest in case you have to bus?

[kgray]

tldr is that I think Neph tried to hide D1 by not voting for damo or xorxes, and was happy with a xorxes lynch (who was in the lead when Neph showed up) and didn't want to get his hands dirty. His reaction to summit questioning him about that was to deflect. He apparently scumread you and didn't bother pushing it. Bunny came in and I believe tried to force an omgus-based scumread on me. He's making accusatory comments without backing anything up.

Here are two relevant posts from earlier:

Just iso'd Neph, and it's not looking good.

D1 Neph gave us very little in terms of content, except this post:

Yea so I'm happy to ruthlessly butcher damo/xorx

Maybe Chaqa for lols

Then Neph had the chance to break the tie between those two and decided not to vote at all, and later said "D1 getting a lynch is important." This is especially grating coming from someone who didn't even vote between either of the only two people he earlier said he'd be happy lynching. Summit already called him out for this, and Neph responds by shading Summit for going after low-hanging fruit. That just seems really disingenuous, and like Neph's deflecting.

Last game Neph was town and trolled a lot and I didn't really understand what he was doing, but every once in a while he made a really good point that I hadn't considered. In this game, the only original thought Neph really seems to have contributed is a scumread on Tom:

- Tom - Doesn't seem invested particularly, piggy-backing of other peoples pushes

Not only do I strongly disagree with that analysis, but Neph doesn't even seem to believe it, as when Tom questioned it Neph deflected by saying Tom was "defensive" and said that no one is ever going to back up his scumread of Tom anyway. So he's not pushing it, and not trying to convince anyone that he's right. If Neph is town, he should 100% be pushing his read, because Tom is almost universally townread and could be very well-hidden scum.

Overall I think Neph is a prime scum candidate based on: the frequency that scum tend to lurk; his deflections when people question him; his lack of original, towny, puzzle-solving thought; and his refusal to vote for a wagon D1 even though he'd previously stated his willingness to vote for both those wagons.

Re: NephyGo

• I won’t bother writing anything else about Neph because I’ve made my thoughts on him pretty clear, although I’d love to discuss them with anyone who disagrees because scum!Neph makes so much sense to me and I’m not sure why others aren’t seeing that.

• Bunny’s entrance to this game has not made me even question my read of Neph’s alignment. I will admit that Bunny and I tend to clash and I could be reacting to my frustration with him, but there are some objective facts that I find really suspicious about Bunny:

• He comes in with questions and that’s fine, as presumably he needs to catch up. Then, the first thing he says he read was (half of) my ISO. First of all, if that’s really the first thing he read, that’s nuts. Maybe his scumbuddies told him he could get away with pushing an omgus scumread on me. But even if it’s not the first thing he read, and is just the first thing he decided to form an opinion on, the reasons for scumreading me are straight-up lies. I’m not asking questions? I’m not going to bother counting them, but I’d bet more than a third of my posts contain questions. I’m upset about being accused? The only thing I’d even been “accused” of was Tom’s questioning of why I wasn’t the NK, and I wasn’t upset about that at all. I didn’t even think he was that serious about it originally. I’m also getting a little sick of being scumread for “protesting” too much. It’s like I said with worcej, poking at people and “arguing” with them is how I try to figure out the game. Bunny knows this after M54 and I think he saw how it got me scumread then and is trying to use it against me here.

• His argument that Tom apparently missing that bunny’s vote for neph was a joke can’t have been constructed scum theater is extremely unconvincing. If they’re teammates, I wouldn’t put it past Tom at all to be able to make that kind of “slip.”

• Bunny thinks me being unsure about my reads is scummy. Not sure why, since we don’t have any confirmed scum yet and therefore very little concrete info to go off of. The only time I was “sure” about my reads in the game he’s referencing was on day 7 when town had tons more info than we have here. It’s completely illogical to make a comparison between those two situations.

[damo666]

@food you are lynching the wrong man

[Tom Bombadil]

Hmmm. I don’t hate it, but I still think lazy/busy town could explain it.

If you are scum, you fooled me and I can live with that. If you are town, that means all 5 voters on damo were town. If damo was town that would surprise me a bit.

[kgray]

Hmmm. I don’t hate it, but I still think lazy/busy town could explain it.

If you are scum, you fooled me and I can live with that. If you are town, that means all 5 voters on damo were town. If damo was town that would surprise me a bit.

Why would that surprise you so much? You're the one who kept talking about xorxes being a great D1 mislynch for scum. Why wouldn't they try to vote for him or off a main wagon?

[Vecna]

you can stop pretending tom, our prs have already made up their mind that all the scum theyre voting with are bussing

[Tom Bombadil]

Just scum nature to spread votes out.

[kgray]

Just scum nature to spread votes out.

You couldn't see scum talking in their daychat about trying to get xorxes lynched just so you'd make this argument for them?

[Tom Bombadil]

Why are you convinced damo is town kgray?

Vecna, why are you trying to get me off track instead of convincing me to switch to Bunny?

[Chaqa]

I just keep coming back to, why did scum NOT get the xorxes mislynch on Day 1?

Or, why didn't they get a lynch on damo, either, if he is town (which still seems like a stretch)

[Tom Bombadil]

Damos not fighting like his team is about to lose the game

[kgray]

Why are you convinced damo is town kgray?

Vecna, why are you trying to get me off track instead of convincing me to switch to Bunny?

I'm not. I think he could be scum. But I also think so much of the argument against him is either NAI or based on a dangerous assumption that has already lost me a game.

[Chaqa]

Bunny-Vecna with bussing damo?

Or maybe Day 1, scum (EMC and Neph) were both gone and the last scum either wasn't around or couldn't move without drawing too much suspicion (Kgray or Bozo?)