MAFIA 51 - LONDON BY GASLIGHT [HIDDEN]

[CmdrLikely]

Okay, want to get a vote in just in case on a busy day, but has to be justified.
Did full game ISO on top 3...

##Vote CmdrLikely

And here's why (admittedly many of these only hold weight in context after knowing identities)....

D1
Pg7 - Shitty icebreaker (according to ND... more below)
Pg21 - Vote Computer_Genius due to low posting, but only posted 4 times themselves
Pg26 - Stayed on C.G. seemed to be protecting Bob, with efforts to align/pocket ND
D2
Pg44 Suspicious of Frostwind
Pg52 - Kill ND and Chaqa and town will be sitting pretty.
Pg64 - Argument with Flav and Xorx, very adamantly stating ND is town liability.
Pg82 - The infamous "I was trying my best to be town"
Pg99 - ND votes purple, response, "LOL, are you sure?" (He's clearly sparing with ND who is the closest thing to a town clear we have).
Page 102 - Voting Flav because he's voting Yav (well several others are voting Yav too). Then turns around and questions Yav?

Between these items and the fact that I town-lean Xorx and Bionic after ISOing them here's my vote.

These aren't good enough reasons imo.

"Shitty icebreaker" - I'm sorry what? This is illegal now?
"Suspicious of Frostwind" - Who wasn't?
"Kill ND and Chaqa" - Literally that was their idea. Yes I said this, but why you singling me out?
"Argument with Flav and Xorx" - So, I suppose you are coming at this assuming they are town? In that case sure, you can create the facts to fit the theory.
"I was trying my best to be town" - Why is this scummy? Please consider I may just be bad at town...
"Voting Flav because he's voting Yav" - I don't know where to begin here. I'm not allowed to vote *my* scumlean? You rather me vote everybody wagoning Yav? I only have one vote!
"Stayed on C.G. seemed to be protecting Bob" - This one is really creative. You said yourself I posted 4 times, and I was voting Computer_Genius and resisted the "musical wagons" game at EOD. Where does that logically equate to me actively protecting Bob? You sir are a crafty diplomat.
"Then turns around and questions Yav?" - umm I'm just doing my job here man. He literally said he's not-not town. Regardless, that doesn't logically invalidate my lean on Flavius. This is because Yav and Flavius may both be scum! We don't know!

[CmdrLikely]

##UNVOTE
Gimme a second. I'm changing my vote but I gotta be certain first.

[CmdrLikely]

The way you can help is by posting your thoughts as the come. Silent people are hard to sort, and this good for scum. Even if your ideas are wrong (most of ours end up being wrong if you go back and look), sharing your thoughts helps town look into your mindset which is how we sort you into scum and town.

Thanks! I'm glad it's you Tom saying this, because you are pro-town in my eyes. It's easier to take advice mid-game when we are on the same team

evidence for that? seems everything I've seen is the exact contrary

Tom's thoughts so far match my own musings. Evidence is all his posts. I haven't seen any scummy. Maybe the people who were saying he is scum are in fact the scum or 3P?

[CmdrLikely]

##VOTE KalelChase

I get it. I come in here N2/D3 saying "guise, how play dis game? Me speek bad." So you give me the 20 questions to try and trip me up. I fell for it, well played.

[KalelChase]

Okay, want to get a vote in just in case on a busy day, but has to be justified.
Did full game ISO on top 3...

##Vote CmdrLikely

And here's why (admittedly many of these only hold weight in context after knowing identities)....

D1
Pg7 - Shitty icebreaker (according to ND... more below)
Pg21 - Vote Computer_Genius due to low posting, but only posted 4 times themselves
Pg26 - Stayed on C.G. seemed to be protecting Bob, with efforts to align/pocket ND
D2
Pg44 Suspicious of Frostwind
Pg52 - Kill ND and Chaqa and town will be sitting pretty.
Pg64 - Argument with Flav and Xorx, very adamantly stating ND is town liability.
Pg82 - The infamous "I was trying my best to be town"
Pg99 - ND votes purple, response, "LOL, are you sure?" (He's clearly sparing with ND who is the closest thing to a town clear we have).
Page 102 - Voting Flav because he's voting Yav (well several others are voting Yav too). Then turns around and questions Yav?

Between these items and the fact that I town-lean Xorx and Bionic after ISOing them here's my vote.

Ugh..

He gave a reasonable explanation for the trying to be town confusion, wouldn't you agree?

And sparing with ND would be more town indicative, I think. Or bold scum.

Nothing in that case is very convincing.

I think I will bail out. ##VOTE Chaqa

If he did give a reasonable explanation, I didn't understand it.

How is sparing with ND (post lightning rod gambit) more town?

Protecting Bob and being suspicious of Frost aren't good reasons?

I don't care about Chaq, so willing to hop over... is there more to his case than the fake-claim?

[KalelChase]

Okay, want to get a vote in just in case on a busy day, but has to be justified.
Did full game ISO on top 3...

##Vote CmdrLikely

And here's why (admittedly many of these only hold weight in context after knowing identities)....

D1
Pg7 - Shitty icebreaker (according to ND... more below)
Pg21 - Vote Computer_Genius due to low posting, but only posted 4 times themselves
Pg26 - Stayed on C.G. seemed to be protecting Bob, with efforts to align/pocket ND
D2
Pg44 Suspicious of Frostwind
Pg52 - Kill ND and Chaqa and town will be sitting pretty.
Pg64 - Argument with Flav and Xorx, very adamantly stating ND is town liability.
Pg82 - The infamous "I was trying my best to be town"
Pg99 - ND votes purple, response, "LOL, are you sure?" (He's clearly sparing with ND who is the closest thing to a town clear we have).
Page 102 - Voting Flav because he's voting Yav (well several others are voting Yav too). Then turns around and questions Yav?

Between these items and the fact that I town-lean Xorx and Bionic after ISOing them here's my vote.

These aren't good enough reasons imo.

"Shitty icebreaker" - I'm sorry what? This is illegal now?
"Suspicious of Frostwind" - Who wasn't?
"Kill ND and Chaqa" - Literally that was their idea. Yes I said this, but why you singling me out?
"Argument with Flav and Xorx" - So, I suppose you are coming at this assuming they are town? In that case sure, you can create the facts to fit the theory.
"I was trying my best to be town" - Why is this scummy? Please consider I may just be bad at town...
"Voting Flav because he's voting Yav" - I don't know where to begin here. I'm not allowed to vote *my* scumlean? You rather me vote everybody wagoning Yav? I only have one vote!
"Stayed on C.G. seemed to be protecting Bob" - This one is really creative. You said yourself I posted 4 times, and I was voting Computer_Genius and resisted the "musical wagons" game at EOD. Where does that logically equate to me actively protecting Bob? You sir are a crafty diplomat.
"Then turns around and questions Yav?" - umm I'm just doing my job here man. He literally said he's not-not town. Regardless, that doesn't logically invalidate my lean on Flavius. This is because Yav and Flavius may both be scum! We don't know!

This is just a list of what happened. Some of the above is scummy, but not all of it. However, it is enough for a justified vote, especially considering who I'm townleaning.

This is an awfully reactive push back. Who said that scum gets angry instead of sad?

[FlaviusAetius]

Thank you bozo, but

ISN'T THAT TOO EASY FOR JACK THE RIPPER?
There are more female characters than I expected and only 3 is enough?

He only kills on even nights, so even if he went 3/3, he would not win until N6, and with less than 50% female, the chance of going 3/3 is low (less than 12.5%).

3 males have died so far though and only 1 female, his chances are bigger than that...

[FlaviusAetius]

I thought you had a good point about Vapor's use of the word "knife", and it was one of the reasons I voted for Vapor instead of BobMcBob when I was trying to break the tie in the last minute of D1. The other primary reason was that I found it unlikely BobMcBob would draw attention to himself as scum with that "joke" gambler claim. Why did you choose to vote for BobMcBob over Vapor? As far as I can tell we both voted within seconds of each other thinking the vote was tied between Vapor and BobMcBob.

I thought Vapor was generally being himself and the only thing I had against him was the knife. I thought it could mean disingenuous Jack, it had not occured to me at the time that it could also mean distracted Grave Robber. I only realized that when I did the search for "knife" during the night.

My suspicion of Bob came from the way he reacted when questioned about his fakeclaim. He gave as reasons all the options that damo and I had been speculating as what his motivation could have been. The problem was that the options were incompatible with one another, and he said it was a bit of all of them. It all felt like rationalization, for something that he would not even have had to explain if he didn't feel guilty about it.

So my choice between Bob and Vapor was easy. But I admit I would have stayed with Computer if it wasn't for the tie.

So it was super convincing, but just not convincing enough for you to move off of computer_genius, unless it was for the tie. you do know computer_genius literally posted nothing...im sorry this isnt like you at all

[KalelChase]

##VOTE KalelChase

I get it. I come in here N2/D3 saying "guise, how play dis game? Me speek bad." So you give me the 20 questions to try and trip me up. I fell for it, well played.

Cmdr,

I just did an ISO list with my observations. I'm not trying to trip you up, and I'm willing to give you a newbie benefit of the doubt, if that's the card you're playing (it's only my 3rd game and the other two were fairly short and one sided so I get it). I genuinely think you've got some scummy stuff in your list... including your, just now, OMGUS vote. When Xorx switched it made me almost re-think since he and Bionic factored into my vote, but your response was just a bunch of vapid 'oh yeah.' Why not tell me why you did those things instead?

[FlaviusAetius]

it is strangely quiet now

hmm might as well spew gut feels

Kit seems more null-scum than null-town

Flav has been gone this entire night, strangely - perhaps family celebrations?

can't read yavuz but it does feel better to see at least posts from the slot lmao

correct!

[FlaviusAetius]

also those arent gut feels those are describign situations, can you do more analysis

[KalelChase]

Okay, want to get a vote in just in case on a busy day, but has to be justified.
Did full game ISO on top 3...

##Vote CmdrLikely

And here's why (admittedly many of these only hold weight in context after knowing identities)....

D1
Pg7 - Shitty icebreaker (according to ND... more below)
Pg21 - Vote Computer_Genius due to low posting, but only posted 4 times themselves
Pg26 - Stayed on C.G. seemed to be protecting Bob, with efforts to align/pocket ND
D2
Pg44 Suspicious of Frostwind
Pg52 - Kill ND and Chaqa and town will be sitting pretty.
Pg64 - Argument with Flav and Xorx, very adamantly stating ND is town liability.
Pg82 - The infamous "I was trying my best to be town"
Pg99 - ND votes purple, response, "LOL, are you sure?" (He's clearly sparing with ND who is the closest thing to a town clear we have).
Page 102 - Voting Flav because he's voting Yav (well several others are voting Yav too). Then turns around and questions Yav?

Between these items and the fact that I town-lean Xorx and Bionic after ISOing them here's my vote.

These aren't good enough reasons imo.

"Shitty icebreaker" - I'm sorry what? This is illegal now?
"Suspicious of Frostwind" - Who wasn't?
"Kill ND and Chaqa" - Literally that was their idea. Yes I said this, but why you singling me out?
"Argument with Flav and Xorx" - So, I suppose you are coming at this assuming they are town? In that case sure, you can create the facts to fit the theory.
"I was trying my best to be town" - Why is this scummy? Please consider I may just be bad at town...
"Voting Flav because he's voting Yav" - I don't know where to begin here. I'm not allowed to vote *my* scumlean? You rather me vote everybody wagoning Yav? I only have one vote!
"Stayed on C.G. seemed to be protecting Bob" - This one is really creative. You said yourself I posted 4 times, and I was voting Computer_Genius and resisted the "musical wagons" game at EOD. Where does that logically equate to me actively protecting Bob? You sir are a crafty diplomat.
"Then turns around and questions Yav?" - umm I'm just doing my job here man. He literally said he's not-not town. Regardless, that doesn't logically invalidate my lean on Flavius. This is because Yav and Flavius may both be scum! We don't know!

This is just a list of what happened. Some of the above is scummy, but not all of it. However, it is enough for a justified vote, especially considering who I'm townleaning.

This is an awfully reactive push back. Who said that scum gets angry instead of sad?

Bionic, with Bunny gone, I need a sounding board and reality check. Xorx's opinion registered with me, but want to hear what you think of my ISO. Does it show how weak a case against Cmder is?

[FlaviusAetius]

Ok. I’m in a bit of a time crunch, but in case I go this is what I’ve got.

Scumpool:
Damo
Rdrivera
Yavuzovic
Kalel

Townpool:
Flav
Xorx
Temasek
ND
Cmdr

The rest are not enough that they stick out in my mind.
If I am killed tonight, lynch rdrivera.

curious, you attack bunny multiplee times, and damo, and yet you dont even care about them? you only care about damo enough to put him down on the list, but not even to say any comments about him? Seems like an odd 'final comment'

[FlaviusAetius]

I don’t think jekyl getting a kill is a bad thing, but i haven’t put a ton of deep thought into it

NOT A TON OF DEEP THOUGHT? THIS WAS THE ENTIRE DISCUSSION OF DAY 2, WHAT DO YOU MEAN??

[BionicMole]

Can someone explain the case on yavu?

I really think voting for Vecna or Tom is better.

What was your case on Vecna? Mine hinges a lot on you being scum, so I would be interested to hear your case.

My thinking is:
1. Vecna has been abnormally quiet even outside the pre-defined times he told us pre-game.
2. He hasn’t been fearkilled.
3. He voted for me before ND reveal, seemed like he may have already known who was lying (as he would have known ND was saved)

It’s not super strong but it’s a reasonable doubt.

I’d prefer Tom tbh. Or others who have rubbed me as odd, but I haven’t had time to formally write it all down yet.

If you would had said, "seemed like he already knew I was lying" this wouldn't seem so fishy. There was only one claimant at the this time.

And why do you assume he would know ND was saved when all we knew was nobody died at that point? It seems like you are pulling things out of thin air.

None of your claim has made sense to me the entire time and I stand by what I have been saying all along, we need this guy to flip.
##Vote Chaqa

[DemonRHK]

Holiday bullshit. No excuse but w/e.

##Vote CmdrLikely

There was a post near the end of Day 2 where people were trying to get some action going and he made an 'oh no anyone but Tem' post that just sits funny.

In addition, I reallllly dislike Tom's EoN reads. I don't see most of those players from the same prospective.

Yavu's spot just needs killed at this point. Too many subs and it's fucking unreadable.

A couple questions I saw at me:

- I feel Chaqa is a possible strongman in a gambit to power-kill Hyde. I don't see him as a goon due to the risk in getting a female kileld by Jack.

- Scum team A is so weak that if they end up getting voted up, they could actually tell us which kills were theirs as to try to get Team B lynched. Team B could do that as well, if one of thiers is about to catch a lynch.

[yavuzovic]

Tbh, I doubt SK would get subbed out twice. One of them would have been excited enough to have the opportunity to play as a 3rd party.

Correct, that's why I am VT. And as I am VT, that's why I looked for VT PM.
I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say that, so I will ask GM to reveal a proof.

[yavuzovic]

I'm the lynch now.

I am not Jack the Ripper.
I don't refuse being a mafia member for now, but stop calling me Jack the Ripper.
If I were that, I would be seeking for gender counts and not VT PM.
If I was going to ask where the PMs are, I would ask this privately to GM. Not in the main thread.

Yavuzovic, what possible reason would you have for saying "I don't refuse being a mafia member for now"?

Clumsy transferring of literary arts. I was trying to say I'm not SK and even Mafia accusations are preferred over SK accusations.
Just, please forget that message, if I was mafia I wouldn't reveal myself. Even if I did, I wouldn't deny it afterwards.

[BionicMole]

These aren't good enough reasons imo.

"Shitty icebreaker" - I'm sorry what? This is illegal now?
"Suspicious of Frostwind" - Who wasn't?
"Kill ND and Chaqa" - Literally that was their idea. Yes I said this, but why you singling me out?
"Argument with Flav and Xorx" - So, I suppose you are coming at this assuming they are town? In that case sure, you can create the facts to fit the theory.
"I was trying my best to be town" - Why is this scummy? Please consider I may just be bad at town...
"Voting Flav because he's voting Yav" - I don't know where to begin here. I'm not allowed to vote *my* scumlean? You rather me vote everybody wagoning Yav? I only have one vote!
"Stayed on C.G. seemed to be protecting Bob" - This one is really creative. You said yourself I posted 4 times, and I was voting Computer_Genius and resisted the "musical wagons" game at EOD. Where does that logically equate to me actively protecting Bob? You sir are a crafty diplomat.
"Then turns around and questions Yav?" - umm I'm just doing my job here man. He literally said he's not-not town. Regardless, that doesn't logically invalidate my lean on Flavius. This is because Yav and Flavius may both be scum! We don't know!

This is just a list of what happened. Some of the above is scummy, but not all of it. However, it is enough for a justified vote, especially considering who I'm townleaning.

This is an awfully reactive push back. Who said that scum gets angry instead of sad?

Bionic, with Bunny gone, I need a sounding board and reality check. Xorx's opinion registered with me, but want to hear what you think of my ISO. Does it show how weak a case against Cmder is?

He does have some good rebuttal on your reasoning and I was ok with his response to the "try to be town" wording after he rephrased it (hindsite is 20/20 after all but why didn't he say what he meant the first time) but another thing that stands out here is the "I may just be bad at town" defense. I don't even know what that means.
I would also tend to agree that the tone of the response should raise some red flags. I don't think a vote on Commander is horrible.

[rdrivera2005]

Tbh, I doubt SK would get subbed out twice. One of them would have been excited enough to have the opportunity to play as a 3rd party.

Correct, that's why I am VT. And as I am VT, that's why I looked for VT PM.
I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say that, so I will ask GM to reveal a proof.

Yav, you are getting weirder, you know pretty well GMs can't give any proof.

I still don't much of a real reason to vote Cmdr or purplecow other then lurking and in this case Kit, Hosuke or even me are probably lurking even more.

Both Yavu and Chaqa are good lynch candidates, my problem with Yav wagon is who are on it, I suspect both Tom and Tem and Bozo isn't much towny too.

I reallly don't like Chaqa answer to Xorxes, it seems fabricated, but I still don't buy this Chaqa and Vecna are scum together thing. I think one of then is scum, just not sure which.

##vote Chaqa while I try to re-read both EODs that I missed.