MAFIA 51 - LONDON BY GASLIGHT [HIDDEN]

[FlaviusAetius]

Going back on-topic. xorxes would try to be useful. For this game, it would actually be much easier to blend in with town. So, more genuine scumhunting, ez. There's no way he wouldn't be doing decently (or at least trying) as a town leader as scum, he's got the reputation and skill to pull it off quite nicely.

but this sorta falls apart when you realise, despite the opportunity, scum!xorxes is usually lower in thoughtful content, on the quiet side, and more "settled down", for lack of better word. Personality thing, like how I can't play scum without trying to taunt subtly, lol

I know xorxes brings up lots of his reads, but xorxes you gotta understand, its about the presence you hold on this game, and the fact of the matter is you arent holding and havent held a presence on this game whatsoever

[xorxes]

Can someone explain the case on yavu?

I really think voting for Vecna or Tom is better.

What was your case on Vecna? Mine hinges a lot on you being scum, so I would be interested to hear your case.

[FlaviusAetius]

I still honestly don't see it, Xorxes. Who should scum target? PRs if they know them. Otherwise, probably "good" players who say they know stuff but aren't sharing yet. Sounds about right to me. If you think that's not a priority target, then we play scum very differently.

Why should scum have had ND as their only identified PR though? And what did you mean by doctors being already busy with something else?

Does anyone else notice only two people went after bunny; tom and xorxes makes you think!

[FlaviusAetius]

but

I feel like I'm restating what others said in-thread already lmao

he's not spicy, or even being lynch-advocator. Look at that vote on Frost, and that last minute voting switch on Day One. Being indecisive and overall an insecure person is my thing. Not deciding on an actual vote or read until the last 20-30 minutes of EOD is my thing.

I had decided my vote would end on Computer until you tied it and forced me to decide between Bob and Vapor. I had nothing very strong against either of them. It wasn't my indecision that caused my late vote, it was yours.

No no no, WHY COMPUTER? What was so special about him? You do know he literally said nothing? WHY didnt you try to set up a new, case, you did nothing!

[Chaqa]

Can someone explain the case on yavu?

I really think voting for Vecna or Tom is better.

What was your case on Vecna? Mine hinges a lot on you being scum, so I would be interested to hear your case.

My thinking is:
1. Vecna has been abnormally quiet even outside the pre-defined times he told us pre-game.
2. He hasn’t been fearkilled.
3. He voted for me before ND reveal, seemed like he may have already known who was lying (as he would have known ND was saved)

It’s not super strong but it’s a reasonable doubt.

I’d prefer Tom tbh. Or others who have rubbed me as odd, but I haven’t had time to formally write it all down yet.

[xorxes]

Going back on-topic. xorxes would try to be useful. For this game, it would actually be much easier to blend in with town. So, more genuine scumhunting, ez. There's no way he wouldn't be doing decently (or at least trying) as a town leader as scum, he's got the reputation and skill to pull it off quite nicely.

but this sorta falls apart when you realise, despite the opportunity, scum!xorxes is usually lower in thoughtful content, on the quiet side, and more "settled down", for lack of better word. Personality thing, like how I can't play scum without trying to taunt subtly, lol

I know xorxes brings up lots of his reads, but xorxes you gotta understand, its about the presence you hold on this game, and the fact of the matter is you arent holding and havent held a presence on this game whatsoever

Nonsense. "xorxes the town leader" shows up when he is certain about something, either when he wants someone lynched, or someone not lynched, or some strategy carried out. He does not show up just to impose some leaning when he has little certainty.

[xorxes]

I still honestly don't see it, Xorxes. Who should scum target? PRs if they know them. Otherwise, probably "good" players who say they know stuff but aren't sharing yet. Sounds about right to me. If you think that's not a priority target, then we play scum very differently.

Why should scum have had ND as their only identified PR though? And what did you mean by doctors being already busy with something else?

Does anyone else notice only two people went after bunny; tom and xorxes makes you think!

What does it make you think? That we were scared of him? That someone is trying to set one of us up? Something else?

[FlaviusAetius]

This is a very good observation. I have avoided calling anyone town or scum explicitly in this game, although I had not noticed it consciously until you pointed it out. The reason is that I have not found yet anything strong enough to call anyone scum, and the mechanics prevents calling anyone town with any certainty.

That's something I have been feeling this game, all my town reads seems weak and it's harder to find scummy behaviors or patterns.

Yes. I have very little idea how town can win in this set up.

It relies on scum and the such killing each other, if they dont yes there is no way town can win

[FlaviusAetius]

Going back on-topic. xorxes would try to be useful. For this game, it would actually be much easier to blend in with town. So, more genuine scumhunting, ez. There's no way he wouldn't be doing decently (or at least trying) as a town leader as scum, he's got the reputation and skill to pull it off quite nicely.

but this sorta falls apart when you realise, despite the opportunity, scum!xorxes is usually lower in thoughtful content, on the quiet side, and more "settled down", for lack of better word. Personality thing, like how I can't play scum without trying to taunt subtly, lol

I know xorxes brings up lots of his reads, but xorxes you gotta understand, its about the presence you hold on this game, and the fact of the matter is you arent holding and havent held a presence on this game whatsoever

Nonsense. "xorxes the town leader" shows up when he is certain about something, either when he wants someone lynched, or someone not lynched, or some strategy carried out. He does not show up just to impose some leaning when he has little certainty.

So you had the certainty that computer_genius was infact a scum?
Why? What was so compelling?

[FlaviusAetius]

Someone else said it, but I’ll have to look back and see who - I think it was Vecna - but Tem seemed more sad/defeated about becoming a wagon. I would expect a scumbo to be more angry/upset than sad.

IMO people get sad when the are going to be mislynch Ed, that get angry when they are getting correctly lynched

makes no sense, everyone should defend themselves, not just lay down and take it lol

[FlaviusAetius]

The way you can help is by posting your thoughts as the come. Silent people are hard to sort, and this good for scum. Even if your ideas are wrong (most of ours end up being wrong if you go back and look), sharing your thoughts helps town look into your mindset which is how we sort you into scum and town.

Thanks! I'm glad it's you Tom saying this, because you are pro-town in my eyes. It's easier to take advice mid-game when we are on the same team

evidence for that? seems everything I've seen is the exact contrary

[xorxes]

Can someone explain the case on yavu?

I really think voting for Vecna or Tom is better.

What was your case on Vecna? Mine hinges a lot on you being scum, so I would be interested to hear your case.

My thinking is:
1. Vecna has been abnormally quiet even outside the pre-defined times he told us pre-game.
2. He hasn’t been fearkilled.
3. He voted for me before ND reveal, seemed like he may have already known who was lying (as he would have known ND was saved)

It’s not super strong but it’s a reasonable doubt.

I’d prefer Tom tbh. Or others who have rubbed me as odd, but I haven’t had time to formally write it all down yet.

1. If you look at the global statistics he is the 5th top poster, so I don't know about abnormally quiet. I think he is, but everyone else is as well, and worse (Kitsune, RHK, rivera, dargo...)

2, Bleh

3. That's the thing that bothers me the most. You didn't seem too concerned about it at the time though.

[xorxes]

I know xorxes brings up lots of his reads, but xorxes you gotta understand, its about the presence you hold on this game, and the fact of the matter is you arent holding and havent held a presence on this game whatsoever

Nonsense. "xorxes the town leader" shows up when he is certain about something, either when he wants someone lynched, or someone not lynched, or some strategy carried out. He does not show up just to impose some leaning when he has little certainty.

So you had the certainty that computer_genius was infact a scum?
Why? What was so compelling?

No, I just thought they were useless, that's why I didn't push for their lynch.

[Chaqa]

What was your case on Vecna? Mine hinges a lot on you being scum, so I would be interested to hear your case.

My thinking is:
1. Vecna has been abnormally quiet even outside the pre-defined times he told us pre-game.
2. He hasn’t been fearkilled.
3. He voted for me before ND reveal, seemed like he may have already known who was lying (as he would have known ND was saved)

It’s not super strong but it’s a reasonable doubt.

I’d prefer Tom tbh. Or others who have rubbed me as odd, but I haven’t had time to formally write it all down yet.

1. If you look at the global statistics he is the 5th top poster, so I don't know about abnormally quiet. I think he is, but everyone else is as well, and worse (Kitsune, RHK, rivera, dargo...)

2, Bleh

3. That's the thing that bothers me the most. You didn't seem too concerned about it at the time though.

I don’t think Ive usually made a big deal about anyone voting for me...

Kit is also someone being much too quiet I agree

[xorxes]

My thinking is:
1. Vecna has been abnormally quiet even outside the pre-defined times he told us pre-game.
2. He hasn’t been fearkilled.
3. He voted for me before ND reveal, seemed like he may have already known who was lying (as he would have known ND was saved)

It’s not super strong but it’s a reasonable doubt.

I’d prefer Tom tbh. Or others who have rubbed me as odd, but I haven’t had time to formally write it all down yet.

1. If you look at the global statistics he is the 5th top poster, so I don't know about abnormally quiet. I think he is, but everyone else is as well, and worse (Kitsune, RHK, rivera, dargo...)

2, Bleh

3. That's the thing that bothers me the most. You didn't seem too concerned about it at the time though.

I don’t think Ive usually made a big deal about anyone voting for me...

Kit is also someone being much too quiet I agree

You don't need to make a big deal, just notice whether they have valid reasons or not. I understand that your perspective of the situation was different from mine since from my POV he was voting for an uncc'd PR, and from your perspective he was voting for an unexposed fakeclaimer, so yeah...

[FlaviusAetius]

"On EVEN numbered nights, you may perform a Night Kill using your KNIFE (item) on any player. If you target Mr. Hyde, your attack will fail. 

You win the game if either of the following points is reached:

1. You have personally killed THREE female characters with your knife, by any point in the game."

With good assumptions, it's very easy to kill a female character. Even if we say he misses 1 or 2, it's very likely to win on day 5 and later.
I don't know how we can do that, but we should give priority to SK, than mafia. Maybe a mafia member can sacrifice himself to help their own team.

The thing is everyone wants to kill Jack, and so we dont really need to worry about him, let the mafia worry about him, while we get the mafia >:)

[KalelChase]

Okay, want to get a vote in just in case on a busy day, but has to be justified.
Did full game ISO on top 3...

##Vote CmdrLikely

And here's why (admittedly many of these only hold weight in context after knowing identities)....

D1
Pg7 - Shitty icebreaker (according to ND... more below)
Pg21 - Vote Computer_Genius due to low posting, but only posted 4 times themselves
Pg26 - Stayed on C.G. seemed to be protecting Bob, with efforts to align/pocket ND
D2
Pg44 Suspicious of Frostwind
Pg52 - Kill ND and Chaqa and town will be sitting pretty.
Pg64 - Argument with Flav and Xorx, very adamantly stating ND is town liability.
Pg82 - The infamous "I was trying my best to be town"
Pg99 - ND votes purple, response, "LOL, are you sure?" (He's clearly sparing with ND who is the closest thing to a town clear we have).
Page 102 - Voting Flav because he's voting Yav (well several others are voting Yav too). Then turns around and questions Yav?

Between these items and the fact that I town-lean Xorx and Bionic after ISOing them here's my vote.

[xorxes]

3. He voted for me before ND reveal, seemed like he may have already known who was lying (as he would have known ND was saved)

Wait, wait, he voted for you before ND had said anything. What do you mean "seemed like he may have already known who was lying"?

You had claimed that you would save yourself as Jekyll. There was no reason for anyone to doubt that other than:

- the real Jekyll
- someone who was your scummate and therefore knew you were not Jekyll

Someone who was scum but not your scummate would have no idea that you were lying. Even if they tried to kill ND and failed, that could have been because ND was commuter, or because Dr Watson saved ND. The fact that their kill of ND failed in no way would suggest that you were lying about being Jekyll.

So, no, you're making stuff up. This is a reason you came up with later to justify your read of Vecna, it is not something you could have thought at that time.

[xorxes]

Okay, want to get a vote in just in case on a busy day, but has to be justified.
Did full game ISO on top 3...

##Vote CmdrLikely

And here's why (admittedly many of these only hold weight in context after knowing identities)....

D1
Pg7 - Shitty icebreaker (according to ND... more below)
Pg21 - Vote Computer_Genius due to low posting, but only posted 4 times themselves
Pg26 - Stayed on C.G. seemed to be protecting Bob, with efforts to align/pocket ND
D2
Pg44 Suspicious of Frostwind
Pg52 - Kill ND and Chaqa and town will be sitting pretty.
Pg64 - Argument with Flav and Xorx, very adamantly stating ND is town liability.
Pg82 - The infamous "I was trying my best to be town"
Pg99 - ND votes purple, response, "LOL, are you sure?" (He's clearly sparing with ND who is the closest thing to a town clear we have).
Page 102 - Voting Flav because he's voting Yav (well several others are voting Yav too). Then turns around and questions Yav?

Between these items and the fact that I town-lean Xorx and Bionic after ISOing them here's my vote.

Ugh..

He gave a reasonable explanation for the trying to be town confusion, wouldn't you agree?

And sparing with ND would be more town indicative, I think. Or bold scum.

Nothing in that case is very convincing.

I think I will bail out. ##VOTE Chaqa

[Jamiet99uk]

VOTE COUNT 3.4

yavuzovic(4) - bozotheclown, FlaviusAetius, Tom Bombadil, Temasek
CmdrLikely(2) - BionicMole, KalelChase
purplecow(2) - ND, ItsHosuke
Chaqa(2) - Vecna, xorxes
FlaviusAetius(1) - CmdrLikely
bozotheclown(1) - purplecow
Tom Bombadil(1) - yavuzovic

Currently YAVUZOVIC is set to be lynched.

21 hours and 45 minutes remain in D3.