M50 Apocalypse Meme Redux

[BionicMole]

if...and that's a big 'if'

so If I survive questa noce, I'll be doing some dirty work aka ISOing people even though I personally dread doing it for this game in particular given the nature of the convo

pinky promise

I think you'll make it

[KalelChase]

Just reread some of Kalel and there are some questionable things. His switch from bunny to rdr and subsequent explanation is awful. He's tieing himself down to sheeping Flav onto one of the 4 Flav listed, and also citing his "spreadsheet" as picking rdr as his top scum. I believe it was damo who did this as scum one of his early games (this was like over a year ago so I could be dead wrong here).
Has Kalel played before and has he done the spreadsheet thing before?

Switch from Bunny to RdR explanations might be awful, but they're honest.
I am tying myself to Flav, and at this point Kit... why do you still scum read him/them for some reason?

My spreadsheet is 2.0 after the one I did for M49 (as town). The real issue, just like any database/analytics, is that it's garbage in-garbage out. And I still haven't learned how to differentiate many behaviors as townie, vs scum hiding as townie. The tie-breaker seems very tied to a player's meta.

So this 2.0 is this one has a 'yelp-review' type scale where I'm tracking more about what you say about each other than what I think about your options (I'm still doing that, but what I learned last game is my opinion should hold less weight).

Not sure about damo, but Bob is doing it too (his first game I believe). What I've learned this game is that before the next game starts I should build a 3rd section that tracks meta behaviors vs. role.

I've been informed not to claim, and I agree to the rational, but if needed I'll hardclaim and Kit will be able to clear me.

The problem I have with your spreadsheet is that you arent really actually telling us anything. From what I have gathered, you voted for rdr because

A) you personally have found things about rdr that you marked down as scummy
B) you have observed that other people scum read rdr

You never explained what rdr did that you personally found scummy (A), and what you agreed or disagreed with that other people said (B). When you lack transparency like this, you aren't owning up to your reads and your vote.
I dont care how you organize your thoughts and scumhunting, but give us the full picture when voting, pushing cases, etc. Please explain how rdr won your spreadsheet contest for most scummy.

Sure - but in the past I've been told not to do this because it tells scum how not to behave. +1 is townie, -1 is Scum

D1: Against massclaim because "It favors Town badly" (177) -1
This happened before the Assassin was clarified (180)
D1: Town vibes from Bozo/Bunny. Not so much from Damo and Kit is weird. (309) -1 on Kit... not sure about Damo.
D1: Voted Ezio 'just in case, but don't think he's hammerer'. Weak justification (366) -1
D1: "You broke my heart." Possible town role (765) +1
D1: Vote switched to Jamiet due to vote on Vecna weak (768) -1

As I go through ISO on D2 his score really goes up on Townie. I wont list it here, but I am switching my vote. ##Vote Bozo

[Kitsune]

Switch from Bunny to RdR explanations might be awful, but they're honest.
I am tying myself to Flav, and at this point Kit... why do you still scum read him/them for some reason?

My spreadsheet is 2.0 after the one I did for M49 (as town). The real issue, just like any database/analytics, is that it's garbage in-garbage out. And I still haven't learned how to differentiate many behaviors as townie, vs scum hiding as townie. The tie-breaker seems very tied to a player's meta.

So this 2.0 is this one has a 'yelp-review' type scale where I'm tracking more about what you say about each other than what I think about your options (I'm still doing that, but what I learned last game is my opinion should hold less weight).

Not sure about damo, but Bob is doing it too (his first game I believe). What I've learned this game is that before the next game starts I should build a 3rd section that tracks meta behaviors vs. role.

I've been informed not to claim, and I agree to the rational, but if needed I'll hardclaim and Kit will be able to clear me.

The problem I have with your spreadsheet is that you arent really actually telling us anything. From what I have gathered, you voted for rdr because

A) you personally have found things about rdr that you marked down as scummy
B) you have observed that other people scum read rdr

You never explained what rdr did that you personally found scummy (A), and what you agreed or disagreed with that other people said (B). When you lack transparency like this, you aren't owning up to your reads and your vote.
I dont care how you organize your thoughts and scumhunting, but give us the full picture when voting, pushing cases, etc. Please explain how rdr won your spreadsheet contest for most scummy.

Sure - but in the past I've been told not to do this because it tells scum how not to behave. +1 is townie, -1 is Scum

D1: Against massclaim because "It favors Town badly" (177) -1
This happened before the Assassin was clarified (180)
D1: Town vibes from Bozo/Bunny. Not so much from Damo and Kit is weird. (309) -1 on Kit... not sure about Damo.
D1: Voted Ezio 'just in case, but don't think he's hammerer'. Weak justification (366) -1
D1: "You broke my heart." Possible town role (765) +1
D1: Vote switched to Jamiet due to vote on Vecna weak (768) -1

As I go through ISO on D2 his score really goes up on Townie. I wont list it here, but I am switching my vote. ##Vote Bozo

I really want to see this spreadsheet after the game.

I haven’t devised a useful one to measure player performance yet, just analyzing their votes and the roles and what we can piece out about them.

I feel it would be more useful if I did, so that’s on my priority list for when Kit’s schedule is less of a basket case.

Out of interest, how was my spreadsheet rating before I revealed?

And yes, holding onto some information is/was bait for the Traitor. I was pretty sure he’d shot down the doctor, but Joat and any other gun roles don’t have a reason to kill me.

##Call GM - While the Commuter is traveling, will this have any effect on their ability to post while out of town or is this immunity only?

[KalelChase]

Flav, I also think something appears 'fake' about Kalel. I still enjoy his posts but that doesn't mean anything when I constantly feel that he's self-controlling, he's robotic

Could be a personal style, that's why I'm not confident and I wanna let somebody else sort his alignment

Self-controlling and robotic is a great description of me. Fake would imply disingenuous, which I am not.

I am town, and am aware of one of the PM exchanges Kit knows about. I'm trying to help team town the only way I 'get' so far... by highlighting incidents that I think are relevant. I am not good at choosing who to vote for and trust Flav & Kit at this point.

As someone who was town last game and got targeted I've got some empathy for Mole, so want to put my vote somewhere else. Spreadsheet 2.0 is F'ed unless I go back and ISO everyone since the beginning of the game (not out of the question during the week, but weekends are tough).

So I'm on Bozo, but it's more gut than justified. I'll ISO him in the next 90 minutes as a safety measure, but don't plan on moving vote unless something glaring pops out.

[Kitsune]

##uncall GM - Actually scratch that. I don’t need to know, just curious.

[Squigs44]

Flav, I also think something appears 'fake' about Kalel. I still enjoy his posts but that doesn't mean anything when I constantly feel that he's self-controlling, he's robotic

Could be a personal style, that's why I'm not confident and I wanna let somebody else sort his alignment

Self-controlling and robotic is a great description of me. Fake would imply disingenuous, which I am not.

I am town, and am aware of one of the PM exchanges Kit knows about. I'm trying to help team town the only way I 'get' so far... by highlighting incidents that I think are relevant. I am not good at choosing who to vote for and trust Flav & Kit at this point.

As someone who was town last game and got targeted I've got some empathy for Mole, so want to put my vote somewhere else. Spreadsheet 2.0 is F'ed unless I go back and ISO everyone since the beginning of the game (not out of the question during the week, but weekends are tough).

So I'm on Bozo, but it's more gut than justified. I'll ISO him in the next 90 minutes as a safety measure, but don't plan on moving vote unless something glaring pops out.

Your empathy towards Mole implies that you know (or at least strongly think) that Mole is town. What is your read on Mole?

That last paragraph there I respect. I think you're wrong, but you following your gut read rather than a regurgitation of your spreadsheet I think is one of the more genuine things you have posted.

I personally think spreadsheets are limiting and would strongly suggest that new players (or anyone really) don't use them. But I understand why some people like them.

[KalelChase]

Squigs can you change your vote to Bozo, as well? I dont want the hammerer to control the day so keeping the votes a little close might be important

But Bozo is town...

Squigs, what's your case for this?

[Jamiet99uk]

Gosh, not much more than an hour to go, and still *four* people haven't voted? This concerns me.

What is BunnyGo playing at with the heaviest softclaim ever? Not sure what that was about.

[RagingIke297]

I haven't the time today ladies and gents, I apologize.

##vote Ike

[Jamiet99uk]

A self vote?

Hmm.

[Squigs44]

Sure - but in the past I've been told not to do this because it tells scum how not to behave. +1 is townie, -1 is Scum

I believe I was the one who told you not to tell scum to behave, so let me clarify:

DO NOT tell people the generals of your reads.
For example, do not say: People who advocate mass claims are townie.

DO tell people the specifics of your particular reads:
For example, say: I scumread [player] because when they argued that we shouldn't mass claim, their reasoning was not well thought out. Their point about [some argument] I found weak and inaccurate because in this post, "

" they argue the opposite. This contradiction makes it look like they don't actually think what they are arguing, and that they are just scared that through a mass claim they will be caught as scum.

Does that make sense?

[Jamiet99uk]

I see Bob lurking there. Vote Bozo with us, BobMcBobMcBobMcBob.

[Squigs44]

Same post, fixing formatting:

Sure - but in the past I've been told not to do this because it tells scum how not to behave. +1 is townie, -1 is Scum

I believe I was the one who told you not to tell scum to behave, so let me clarify:

DO NOT tell people the generals of your reads.
For example, do not say: People who advocate mass claims are townie.

DO tell people the specifics of your particular reads:
For example, say: I scumread [player] because when they argued that we shouldn't mass claim, their reasoning was not well thought out. Their point about [some argument] I found weak and inaccurate because in this post, "<quote>" they argue the opposite. This contradiction makes it look like they don't actually think what they are arguing, and that they are just scared that through a mass claim they will be caught as scum.

Does that make sense?

[worcej]

WOOOO! My 2nd OMGUS of the game! Have at me noobs!

You're the one saying it Bunny, not me. I know my roll so what you are doung looks so much like mafia. Either you're trying to get me to claim or you know I'm not scum and want me lynched.

##vote bunnyg

Bunny is not mafia, thats a funny joke, he has been way too involved in this game, involved when he didnt have to be, always solving, and taking it to new things. He flat out spent like 2 hours talking with me a scum doesnt do that, especially not with me.

Bunny is not mafia.

[Vaporwave]

It's so cold and I'm all alone on rivera,

I'm coming inside the bozo hut

##VOTE bozo

I think this is a fine and promising wagon

[Vaporwave]

You're the one saying it Bunny, not me. I know my roll so what you are doung looks so much like mafia. Either you're trying to get me to claim or you know I'm not scum and want me lynched.

##vote bunnyg

Bunny is not mafia, thats a funny joke, he has been way too involved in this game, involved when he didnt have to be, always solving, and taking it to new things. He flat out spent like 2 hours talking with me a scum doesnt do that, especially not with me.

Bunny is not mafia.

wowowowowoowowoowowoowowoow wait a bit

[worcej]

Bunny is not mafia, thats a funny joke, he has been way too involved in this game, involved when he didnt have to be, always solving, and taking it to new things. He flat out spent like 2 hours talking with me a scum doesnt do that, especially not with me.

Bunny is not mafia.

wowowowowoowowoowowoowowoow wait a bit

What are you concerned about? He isn’t mafia is nothing substance other than a statement of fact.

[BobMcBob]

Darn, I'm gong to have to drop a vote and fast... ##Vote TrPrado
I don't know, it's probably be nothing, but he was havily defending BM yesterday. I can't see a reason to defend him as strongly as Prado did unless he knew something extra. It could be one of those investigative roles, or one of those wacky roles that are going around. But if BM flips scum, TrPrado's going to look real bad.

I don't believe he's scum, but I don't believe the BM wagon either, and I haven't had time to read up on why the bozo wagon appeared. I'll be more active today though.

[Vaporwave]

Bunny is not mafia.

wowowowowoowowoowowoowowoow wait a bit

What are you concerned about? He isn’t mafia is nothing substance other than a statement of fact.

Alright...I won't ask any further questions

[KalelChase]

The problem I have with your spreadsheet is that you arent really actually telling us anything. From what I have gathered, you voted for rdr because

A) you personally have found things about rdr that you marked down as scummy
B) you have observed that other people scum read rdr

You never explained what rdr did that you personally found scummy (A), and what you agreed or disagreed with that other people said (B). When you lack transparency like this, you aren't owning up to your reads and your vote.
I dont care how you organize your thoughts and scumhunting, but give us the full picture when voting, pushing cases, etc. Please explain how rdr won your spreadsheet contest for most scummy.

Sure - but in the past I've been told not to do this because it tells scum how not to behave. +1 is townie, -1 is Scum

D1: Against massclaim because "It favors Town badly" (177) -1
This happened before the Assassin was clarified (180)
D1: Town vibes from Bozo/Bunny. Not so much from Damo and Kit is weird. (309) -1 on Kit... not sure about Damo.
D1: Voted Ezio 'just in case, but don't think he's hammerer'. Weak justification (366) -1
D1: "You broke my heart." Possible town role (765) +1
D1: Vote switched to Jamiet due to vote on Vecna weak (768) -1

As I go through ISO on D2 his score really goes up on Townie. I wont list it here, but I am switching my vote. ##Vote Bozo

I really want to see this spreadsheet after the game.

I haven’t devised a useful one to measure player performance yet, just analyzing their votes and the roles and what we can piece out about them.

I feel it would be more useful if I did, so that’s on my priority list for when Kit’s schedule is less of a basket case.

Out of interest, how was my spreadsheet rating before I revealed?

And yes, holding onto some information is/was bait for the Traitor. I was pretty sure he’d shot down the doctor, but Joat and any other gun roles don’t have a reason to kill me.

##Call GM - While the Commuter is traveling, will this have any effect on their ability to post while out of town or is this immunity only?

Kit - Happy to share it. Two sections... my stuff and crowd weights.

My stuff is subjective +1-1 stuff. Before you revealed I had these down from D1... didn't have a chance to add D2 before your claim.
Mafia Analysis (8) Place Vote (15) Justifying MassClaim Convo (20) Justified Vote (212) Push on Bo_Sox Negativity (142)

The crowd weights are a gestalt tracking of each persons comments into categories...
Neutral N 0
Scum S -5
Scumlean SL -3
ScumleanGut SLG -1
Town T 5
Townlean TL 3
TownleanGut TLG 1
They're in the order they are in so I can do a =Vlookup to consolidate points.
Gut is an unjustified vote or accusation... Lean is when someone gives reasons (regardless of if I think they're good)... and I save S/T for when someone 'hard/claims' or someone like Flav.

Your weight from the crowd, before you claimed, was actually -6... pretty scummy. It, obviously, has changed recently.

My 3.0 spreadsheet will have a Mega behavior/comparison that will go across games (and I've figured out how to search the forum, so can even do games I wasn't in).

I'm tempering myself against totally just following the spreadsheet number and add in some gut. I think you of all people will know what I mean as at one point I was even Gunning for Damo.