MAFIA 49 -Avengers "Re-release"- GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

[xorxes]

@Xorxes

I think his case is: assuming you are scum, you see him point a finger at someone. Then you say, "is that all? anything else?" and he goes and convinces himself that this person is scum.

He's suggesting it's your fault that he's accusing some townies of being scum, but doing it in a way that it makes it seem like he's bussing them.

It's sort of convoluted, but has an internal logic to it.

Can you see how he is fabricating the whole thing though? Because my first reaction was not "is that all?". My first reaction was "that's a lame ass reason to vote for someone". Then when he tried to convince me it was a good reason, I said, "ok, let's assume I buy it, is that consistent with the rest of his play?" and his argument then is that I'm trying to make him solidify his initial read? No, it's pure and unadulterated bullshit. I'm pretty sure Maniac has outed himself as scum with that.

[damo666]

Townie points for this reads list as well.

By Jove. He's got it.

[xorxes]

And there was I thinking you were taking the piss with post #810

no, that was before I read his (reasonable) request.

[EspressoPatronum]

Looking to Fox, and as I've stated earlier, his initial lurker callout could easily be a scum tool to appear busy. It also allowed him a narrative to vote me after scumreading him for it.

I didn't scumread you for you being a lurker. I called you a lurker at a time when you were, in fact, lurking. Interesting that you're getting all defensive about it. Perhaps the lady doth protest too much.

Also, I didn't vote you for being a lurker. I voted you for doing sketchy stuff I didn't like (your macro reads list, e.g.). PERHAPS SHE DOTH.

So this looks like an attempt to manufacture an agenda that you can counter, rather than talking about what's actually going on.

I agree that I was lurking at the time of your posting, but my argument against you rests on three points:
1) You were also lurking/low-posting at the time of the post
2) calling out lurkers is an easy way for scum to generate content without taking a risky stance. (This nullifies the issue to scum!Fox posed by the point 1 above)
3) By calling out lurkers, you were perfectly primed to scumread any who responded to you. You did so immediately after I posted my reads list with you as scum. (fmpv, this confirms the Fox agenda of point 2 above)

[Chaqa]

ND is clearly going to lurk his way to safety (which is rich coming from me, I know) so I guess I'll move to a different wagon. I think all the wagons right now are reasonable, but I'll hop onto Vapor.

##Vote Vaporwave

Also, someone else brought it up (xorxes maybe?) but brainbomb is not playing quite exactly how I'm used to him playing. Curious.

[brainbomb]

regardless of if he is a master player at projecting town.
bunnygo just seems like a fantastic all around player that I did not expect.
hes capable of being anything at the moment.

but im enjoying his style and ability

[EspressoPatronum]

BunnyGo
null
Very resistant to being pushed. Combination of questioning attitude, some volatility, apparent levels of capability... could either be earnest angry town, or carefully calculated scum. I feel like it's town but don't fully trust that yet as there are little pings that set me wrong.

I'm a mathematician. We are earnest, angry, calculated, and are hard to push because we always think we know better. Nobody likes us, and we have varied levels of capability depending on how much coffee we've consumed.

Lol this is great. @worcej, aren't you a mathematician, too?!

[Foxcastle]

Also, Xorx, see how I snipped the list? It takes up less of the page. You should learn from the good example that I am setting. You would become a more courteous person, and find it easier to make friends.

Strongly disagree with this. I would prefer to have the full context of what he's responding to. Lazy people will not click back to check, making it easier for erroneous analysis to get started or get perpetuated.

Back in the days when webpages were rendered on farmland and read by flying a dirigible overhead, there was a real need to conserve space. But screen space is essentially free now, and if I have to choose between a full and accurate representation of game material and Jamie being too lazy to scroll, the full context wins every time.

[EspressoPatronum]

I don't think I've ever been hit by a 3x OMGUS before, but there's a first for everything.

Fox might as well have made a neon sign confirming that he was priming me and the other lurkers for a scumread.

Not sure what you mean by 3x OMGUS here. You omgussing three people, or three people omgussing you?

3 people omgussing me. The votes all came after my scumreads of them.

[BunnyGo]

Townie points for this reads list as well.

+1 for clipping

[xorxes]

I always THINK you are scum and you always think I am scum. Obviously, we are frequently wrong, specially on D1. I know you are wrong this time, am I wrong? I don't feel you engaged as in M47.

I do not always think you are scum, I believe you would have to go back a number of games since I last mistakenly scum read you when you were town.

I agree with this actually.

[EspressoPatronum]

I was going to wait until Espresso answered Neph's question of who EP thought was scum on his wagon, but apparently it's all of them!

Anyway, I've seen this from several people talking about scum piling on early wagons. I think that's very off. That's the opposite of blending, particularly when it's more likely that scum do not need to push a wagon at all when town is perfectly capable of mislynching while they sit back and watch.

I already answered the question on page 33.

Considering my "non-answer" is one of the angles for your continued push on me, you should probably go read my post.

[BunnyGo]

It's sort of convoluted, but has an internal logic to it.

Can you see how he is fabricating the whole thing though? Because my first reaction was not "is that all?". My first reaction was "that's a lame ass reason to vote for someone". Then when he tried to convince me it was a good reason, I said, "ok, let's assume I buy it, is that consistent with the rest of his play?" and his argument then is that I'm trying to make him solidify his initial read? No, it's pure and unadulterated bullshit. I'm pretty sure Maniac has outed himself as scum with that.

Yup. Not sure about scum, but I'm sticking by my "shit player" comment from before. Ah, that's too harsh. Let's downgrade to "weird player".

[Foxcastle]

Looking to Fox, and as I've stated earlier, his initial lurker callout could easily be a scum tool to appear busy. It also allowed him a narrative to vote me after scumreading him for it.

I didn't scumread you for you being a lurker. I called you a lurker at a time when you were, in fact, lurking. Interesting that you're getting all defensive about it. Perhaps the lady doth protest too much.

Also, I didn't vote you for being a lurker. I voted you for doing sketchy stuff I didn't like (your macro reads list, e.g.). PERHAPS SHE DOTH.

So this looks like an attempt to manufacture an agenda that you can counter, rather than talking about what's actually going on.

I agree that I was lurking at the time of your posting, but my argument against you rests on three points:
1) You were also lurking/low-posting at the time of the post
2) calling out lurkers is an easy way for scum to generate content without taking a risky stance. (This nullifies the issue to scum!Fox posed by the point 1 above)
3) By calling out lurkers, you were perfectly primed to scumread any who responded to you. You did so immediately after I posted my reads list with you as scum. (fmpv, this confirms the Fox agenda of point 2 above)

1) If a lurker says something true about lurkers, does that mean it was false? Of course not.

2) This is tenuous at best, and NAI anyway. Scum calling out lurkers to look busy. Sure, it happens. Townies calling out lurkers to try to draw attention to where scum may be lurking and get them to participate. Happens quite a lot, actually. Especially by me.

2a) Also, characterizing my post as "generat[ing] content" is a stretch. I posted one word. (Unless you also think that stretching the word out with extra letters is an effort to generate additional content.)

3) So... no one can scum read anyone they've noted before? Importantly, I voted for you for your actions, not for lurking. Why aren't you hunting around for anyone else that said "I don't like the wagon on Vapor" for example and then scumread anyone on the wagon?

Also, if I think scum is likely to be lurking, then yeah, adding that to your actions to come to a conclusion that you're likely scum is... pretty much how the game goes!

A final point: why are you trying to push me as a counterwagon? Could it be because you know (from the past few games we were in together) that my playstyle is generally viewed suspiciously, so you think I could be an easy counterwagon and mislynch!? Because your actual analysis is facile at best.

[Jamiet99uk]

Maniac used to be good.

[bozotheclown]

scum survey:
bozo: Vapor, emc, rdrivera, Nephthys
BunnyGo: emc, Kalel, bozo, brainbomb
Nephthys: Espresso, Jamie, foodcoats, bozo
Vapor: darg, Espresso, Temasek, ?
Espresso: Foxcastle, emc, Kalel, darg?
damo: Chaqa, darg, emc, Kalel
foodcoats: brainbomb, emc, Foxcastle, Maniac
darg: Vapor, BunnyG, Kitsune, emc
Maniac: xorxes, Espresso, Kalel, ?
Kitsune: bozo, Temasek, ?, ?

I'll go with kalel, Espresso, xorx and bozo for the list. Also, doesn't the term 'scum' include the SK? I'm clueless just like an unassuming spider

That is a good question, I am not sure, but for the survey lets ignore the SK for now.

[Vaporwave]

My question for you is this: would you say your play was different this game compared to M1007 and M47? As an objective observer, would you find any difference AI?

There's no difference between me in this game and previous ones. A Nebraska restaurant manager mentioned that my entrance felt a bit 'defeated' and dargo called me scared, but all of that happened in the beginning and I've explained why.

My initial reaction upon receiving my alignment was pure joy, but then something changed after I saw various roles and realised I'm left with nothing. I can't mention anything else without breaching the integrity of this game.

Explain to me why you aren't scum this game, Espresso.

[Foxcastle]

ND is clearly going to lurk his way to safety (which is rich coming from me, I know) so I guess I'll move to a different wagon. I think all the wagons right now are reasonable, but I'll hop onto Vapor.

##Vote Vaporwave

Also, someone else brought it up (xorxes maybe?) but brainbomb is not playing quite exactly how I'm used to him playing. Curious.

This looks awful to me. Brain's theory that Chaqa and ND were bussing eachother is interesting, but going for Vapor just seems like not even trying.

[xorxes]

...
BunnyGo - town
...
EspressoPatronum – Scum 2, if xorxes is
...
KalelChase – scum 3, Xorxes says Kalel and Espresso can’t both be scum even though he looks scummy. I think experience xorxes is giving newbie kalal some cover here.
...
xorxes – Scum 1
...

I notice you no longer think BunnyGo is scum, and that all your scum reads are somehow based on me.

[bozotheclown]

Catching up, catching up, don't expect much of anything from here until tomorrow lol, going to blatantly pull the vaguely scummy not-here card for a bit longer

sorry

EMC you're killing me! Going to make me defend you for a third game straight...

FWIW, he really has been absent. We had to pause the Coalition game and I haven't talked to him in a few days, so while it's NAI, he isn't lying about being gone.

Still, this post by emc is not necessary if he is town, it looks like he is trying to avoid getting votes.