MAFIA 49 -Avengers "Re-release"- GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

[EspressoPatronum]

I thought of all the people looking most like serial killer it was foxcastle so far.

maybe we should do our reads in a new format.
LG lawful good (Fundamentally adheres to all customs)
LN lawful neutral (Fundamentally confused)
LE Lawful evil (Fundamentally Evil)
NG neutral good (Passively Good
T True Neutral (Null)
NE Neutral Evil (Passively Evil)
CG Chaotic good (Wild town)
CN Chaotic Neutral (Wild something)
CE Chaotic Evil (Wild scum)

+1 for the D&D flare.

I'm not sure if "fundamentally" accurately captures the idea of lawful. Maybe lawful could be something like consistency with past meta?

And for the sake of clarity, is all good town and all evil scum?

[EspressoPatronum]

Neph's proposal removes neutrals and forces us to include any slight scumlean, I'm not up for that, people are prone to OMGUS and I've already had too many votes

I'm only mentioning my strong scumbums.

It also forces scum to be decisive. For scum, every read, to some degree, is a decision "do I want this person to be a scum/town read?" Therefore, by removing all nulls, it forces them to make more decisions. The more decisions scum make, the easier they are to catch. This is why scum tend to be lower in posts that many town. Its harder by definition to go high posting scum and do well

This is a great idea.

I would also add that everyone should be included in the reads list. It'll help avoid the issue of scum bypassing the null removal by just not including certain players.

[EspressoPatronum]

OK then, I'm going to ##VOTE Espresso

I'm really sad because we were scumbuddies in the minimafia game and did great together, and I still feel some camaraderie towards EP because of that, but I think he is scum this time. This reads list is very empty, too many reads to say very little. Too manys "time will tell". Reads I especially dislike: bozo, rivera, Fox.

Agree on my read, telling I am usually more active is just weird.
[/quote]
My thought process:
You were very active D1 in M47. At the time of my posting, you'd barely posted anything here in comparison. lurkery = kinda scummy.

On the other hand, your opening post re the reality stone was great + I don't see scum making that post so early. town ping.

In light of a conflicting scum and town ping, I listed you as null.


If you were an observer, how would you compare your gameplay here to past games?

[EspressoPatronum]

Btw, I'm online for the next hour or so. I'll be catching up but can engage realtime in between catchup posts.

Ok then, how bout we start with analysing your wagon at its peak

EspressoPatronum (5) Foxcastle Vaporwave KalelChase xorxes brainbomb Nephthys

How many scum do you think were on you and who do you suspect?

Apologies on missing this. Are you still online?

I'd imagine no more than half of the scum team would be on me so early, as grouping up more than that would be pretty terrible. If I'm correct and either 1 or 2 is on me, then the other two are probably on small/meaningless wagons.

That being said, I'm currently either scumleaning or scumreading 4 of the people in the wagon (Fox, Vapor, Kalel, xorxes*), which is definitely a problem.

I doubt Fox and Vapor would work together so openly, but there's a high chance in scum being between them. My money is on Fox because of his lurker positioning post.

That leaves xorxes and Kalel. Kalel left a bad first impression, but I haven't seen any troubling posts from him since. Xorxes, on the other hand, has a few concerning posts (highlighted in the posts above). He also softened his vote against my by citing our scumbuddy mini maf game, which doesn't sit well with me.

@Neph, what do you make of the wagon?

[EspressoPatronum]

##vote Foxcastle

Reasons above

[EspressoPatronum]

I would like to try something that showed promising results in M47 and have everyone list 4 players they think are the most likely to be scum. You do not have to give reasons, and ignore the SK for now. I will start: Vapor, emc, rdrivera, Nephthys.

##Vote bozo

This was useful yes and I intended to bring it up when relevant. This was also used to success last game although both times the game has progressed significantly than it currently has. There is little point in doing it now and it is the definition of content for the sake of content

Yikes that wording was sloppy

- Yes its useful
- Its only useful later
- Bringing it up now is terrible play

I disagree with it being terrible play, but I agree that it's not optimal right now.

Best used in D2 or D3 imo.

@Neph -- what's your opinion on smokescreens? I suggested them earlier but it got drowned out after my wagon picked up.

[Nephthys]

##Vote bozo

This was useful yes and I intended to bring it up when relevant. This was also used to success last game although both times the game has progressed significantly than it currently has. There is little point in doing it now and it is the definition of content for the sake of content

Yikes that wording was sloppy

- Yes its useful
- Its only useful later
- Bringing it up now is terrible play

I disagree with it being terrible play, but I agree that it's not optimal right now.

Best used in D2 or D3 imo.

@Neph -- what's your opinion on smokescreens? I suggested them earlier but it got drowned out after my wagon picked up.

They're annoying and never work cause intrinsically not everyone gets involved, more often that not they help scum.

0/10 would participate

[EspressoPatronum]

Welp, nobody else is on and I've already taken up about a page or 2 solo, so I'll just head to bed.

Some general notes from my catchup that didn't come out in my quote responses:
- As I'm sure my above posts will show, I'm having misgivings about xorxes and am scumleaning him rn. I'm interested to hear his answers to my questions
- watching Jamie go down the rabbit hole with worcej's question is hilarious. It's giving me flashbacks to his janitor theory against me in M47.
- I don't agree with Maniac's case against Bunny. I'm interested to see what he says after looking into Bunny's ISO
- very impressed with the reads lists from the newer players. If I have time tomorrow, I'll try to update mine and flesh it out a bit more.
- I'm liking Neph's content and tone. He feels town.
- Really hoping to hear from yuuki. He usually gives some great content.

[Nephthys]

Btw, I'm online for the next hour or so. I'll be catching up but can engage realtime in between catchup posts.

Ok then, how bout we start with analysing your wagon at its peak

EspressoPatronum (5) Foxcastle Vaporwave KalelChase xorxes brainbomb Nephthys

How many scum do you think were on you and who do you suspect?

Apologies on missing this. Are you still online?

I'd imagine no more than half of the scum team would be on me so early, as grouping up more than that would be pretty terrible. If I'm correct and either 1 or 2 is on me, then the other two are probably on small/meaningless wagons.

That being said, I'm currently either scumleaning or scumreading 4 of the people in the wagon (Fox, Vapor, Kalel, xorxes*), which is definitely a problem.

I doubt Fox and Vapor would work together so openly, but there's a high chance in scum being between them. My money is on Fox because of his lurker positioning post.

That leaves xorxes and Kalel. Kalel left a bad first impression, but I haven't seen any troubling posts from him since. Xorxes, on the other hand, has a few concerning posts (highlighted in the posts above). He also softened his vote against my by citing our scumbuddy mini maf game, which doesn't sit well with me.

@Neph, what do you make of the wagon?

I have firm townreads of brain and xorx atm

Of the rest I would say its probably Kalel/Vapor if any although theres the chance that all are town.

I think the vapor vote is perfectly logical and in line with his current chain of thought so overall

Total scum: 0 or 1
Likelihood: Kalel > Vapor > Fox > Xorx > Brain

[bozotheclown]

I would like to try something that showed promising results in M47 and have everyone list 4 players they think are the most likely to be scum. You do not have to give reasons, and ignore the SK for now. I will start: Vapor, emc, rdrivera, Nephthys.

##Vote bozo

This was useful yes and I intended to bring it up when relevant. This was also used to success last game although both times the game has progressed significantly than it currently has. There is little point in doing it now and it is the definition of content for the sake of content

Yikes that wording was sloppy

- Yes its useful
- Its only useful later
- Bringing it up now is terrible play

How do you know it will not be useful? What is the harm in polling everyone's day 1 reads? I think there could be some value in getting everyone's top scum reads on record. Obviously it is early, but you can always change your reads later.

[bozotheclown]

I would like to try something that showed promising results in M47 and have everyone list 4 players they think are the most likely to be scum. You do not have to give reasons, and ignore the SK for now. I will start: Vapor, emc, rdrivera, Nephthys.

##Vote bozo

This was useful yes and I intended to bring it up when relevant. This was also used to success last game although both times the game has progressed significantly than it currently has. There is little point in doing it now and it is the definition of content for the sake of content

I can always join a bozo lynch.

##vote Bozo

Interesting that 50% of my top 4 scum reads chose to vote for me instead of participating in my survey. Only scum would want to avoid coming up with 4 scum reads. Your confidence level does not have to be high. List everyone from most likely to least likely scum, and take the first 4.

[bozotheclown]

##VOTE BOZO

His latest post tipped the balance for me.

You have put out a fairly comprehensive list, can you pick three more you think are most likely to be scum?

[bozotheclown]

##VOTE BOZO

His latest post tipped the balance for me.

What about it specifically?

It continued his chaotic "no content, but let's all shout at each other" posts. He gave no reasons for his targets. He gave no reason for his exercise. He just shows up randomly, throws a bomb, and runs away.

Read M47 for more context.

[bozotheclown]

Yikes that wording was sloppy

- Yes its useful
- Its only useful later
- Bringing it up now is terrible play

This seems in stark contradiction to your earlier complaint that webdipmaf is toxic egotistical and uncooperative. I need to update my reads in the morning but I’m on team bozo regarding this strategy. Why do you think it is bad play? What is better play?

What's contradictory? I stated I think it's bad and explained how I think it would be better used. I haven't personally attacked him or anything?

Why can't we do a survey now and later?

[bozotheclown]

I agree with him about some of the people he mentioned (not you), but I gave reasons above for my thoughts. His posts are all shaped like this. And I don't see any "puzzle solving" coming. Just distraction under the guise of identifying people.

True, although in his defense I will say the use of the top scumreads is solid and has bought excellent success in the past so don't discount that strategy. I agree with most of the rest of your statements though.

What reads do you agree with?

I'll direct you to my whole post above for my current thoughts. But the 3 I most lean scum are e.m.c, Kalel, and bozo. I'm also not sure about brain (he's either very helpful town, or very insidious scum). Lot's of others I'm not sure about.

OK, I will take that for now. Please correct the list if I have recorded your choices incorrectly.

scum survey:
bozo: Vapor, emc, rdrivera, Nephthys
BunnyGo: emc, Kalel, bozo, brainbomb

[Kitsune]

This feels like Fox’s first way to tell scum now.

He said they either try to blend well with the crowd and not make waves, or else they have a pet agenda that they try to push in spite of any opposition.

Why do you @bozo believe Nepthys thinks doing this survey now is a bad idea?

Separately, why is he wrong?

[bozotheclown]

I would like to try something that showed promising results in M47 and have everyone list 4 players they think are the most likely to be scum. You do not have to give reasons, and ignore the SK for now. I will start: Vapor, emc, rdrivera, Nephthys.

##Vote bozo

This was useful yes and I intended to bring it up when relevant. This was also used to success last game although both times the game has progressed significantly than it currently has. There is little point in doing it now and it is the definition of content for the sake of content

I can always join a bozo lynch.

##vote Bozo

Why is that, shouldn't you only want to lynch me when I am scum?

[bozotheclown]

This feels like Fox’s first way to tell scum now.

He said they either try to blend well with the crowd and not make waves, or else they have a pet agenda that they try to push in spite of any opposition.

Why do you @bozo believe Nepthys thinks doing this survey now is a bad idea?

Separately, why is he wrong?

I believe Nepthys is saying he thinks everyone's read should be more accurate later, but that is no reason we should try it now as well. Since Nepthys is among my scum reads, I suspect he might be trying to kill the survey so he and his teammates do not have to go on record with their scum reads. The mafia typically do not want to scum read too many people if they can avoid it.

[Kitsune]

Okay thank you.

I suspect that was in between the lines, but not an implication I caught.

Is there a risk that if too many people give their scum reads early the scum will know who to target before the second round of voting?

From my seat your argument is the stronger - more information on opinions and views generally being better than less. But Nepthys has played a lot of games so I’d like to hear their views too.

[bozotheclown]

Here are the reasons for my top scum reads. Keep in mind it is early and there is not a lot to go on yet:

Vapor: I find him saying he is going to limit his posts suspicious. Also, he received 3 quick votes, that could be a sign of a teammate bussing him.

emc: He referenced his own meta, which I find is typically scum indicative.

rdrivera: Voting for 2 new players for vague reasons seems atypical for him as town.

Nephthys: This post seems like scum taking an easy shot, and it is not logically consistent:

Calling it now

Espresso/bozo scumteam

I could see Nephthys think Espresso is trying to pocket me, or think I am scum for other reasons, but scum almost never look like they are pocketing other scum.