Wikileaks, Assange, and sexual assault

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orathaic
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Wikileaks, Assange, and sexual assault

#1 Post by orathaic » Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:03 am

Documents published by Wikileaks relating to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan revealed how the US military had killed hundreds of civilians in unreported incidents.

The US has already charged Assange with a single count of participating in the hacking of intelligence computers to reveal controversial intelligence operations in the United States.

If found guilty, Assange could be jailed for up to five years.
From the BBC. Look I understand why the US military/intelligence Community should be annoyed by this. But US citizens should celebrate.

The killing of civilians by US troops is terrible, bringing this to light means making America a better place. Trying to convict someone who may have conspired to leak this is bad for free speech, for criticism of the govt, it is bad for being a free nation able to look critically at yourselves.

Assange may in fact be an assholes. And I don't want to support him, I want to see him tried for sexual assault charges in Sweden (I have second/third hand personal reports of his assholeness, which drove many people away from the wikileaks project). And he should be held responsible his actions. But journalists and leaker need to be protected in law.

We need to be able to have good actors safely able to report on the crimes of institutions in order to prevent abuse of power. This is the only way to protect the public interest; and whistle blowers like Chelsea Manning and Edward Snowden are heroes.
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brainbomb
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Re: Wikileaks, Assange, and sexual assault

#2 Post by brainbomb » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:02 am

no opinion. I didnt consider him a folk hero in the first place.
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Octavious
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Re: Wikileaks, Assange, and sexual assault

#3 Post by Octavious » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:06 am

That awkward moment when you realise that you've locked yourself in an embassy for most of a decade to escape a maximum sentence of five years...
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brainbomb
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Re: Wikileaks, Assange, and sexual assault

#4 Post by brainbomb » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:10 am

*If found guilty*

is there some doubt in the global community that this is just trying to pin anything on him?

I saw some girl post a picture of herself in a thong with a shirt on that said #free assange. (on instagram)

I have no idea what to think.

another female friend was on facebook telling us we should hate him for sexually assaulting someone.

I guess I dont understand why people are so ensmoured by whistleblowers

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Re: Wikileaks, Assange, and sexual assault

#5 Post by Octavious » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:29 am

I imagine that most of the global community couldn't care less.

Whether or not he's an arse is irrelevant. Unlike on webDiplomacy, in the real world being an arsehole isn't a crime, and deserves no greater or lesser punishment than having to live with yourself.

When it comes to extradition, the waters are muddied when the definition of crimes vary from nation to nation. I have no reason to doubt the legal systems in Scandinavia or North America, but I would be extremely uncomfortable sending a man to the gaols of a foreign power who may have been found innocent here.

Given the choice between an American jail, a Swedish jail, or an Ecuadorian embassy... I'd probably pick the Swedish jail

Randomizer
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Re: Wikileaks, Assange, and sexual assault

#6 Post by Randomizer » Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:18 pm

Meanwhile dementia suffering Donald Trump is claiming not to know anything about Assange and WikiLeaks. Even after being reminded about what he said during his 2016 campaign.

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Re: Wikileaks, Assange, and sexual assault

#7 Post by Octavious » Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:40 pm

One wonders if you'd use the dementia insult against a younger president. Fine to disagree with the chap, but let's avoid straying into ageism.

More to the point, who gives a damn? Not every issue has to be seen through the prism of Trump. Let's discuss the implications on Brexit, why not? Or, even better, let's not.
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Carl Tuckerson
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Re: Wikileaks, Assange, and sexual assault

#8 Post by Carl Tuckerson » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:24 pm

brainbomb wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:10 am
I guess I dont understand why people are so ensmoured by whistleblowers
People disagree on exactly what is wrong with American society, but they agree that something is. Whistleblowers often put themselves at significant personal risk to call attention to what is wrong. The act is brave, even if you would have chosen a different actor; you dance with the one that brought you here. That's how I see it anyway.

Not to make light of the accusations against him of course, but that's where the attraction to whistleblowers comes from-- a sense of "SOMEBODY finally did SOMETHING."
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Randomizer
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Re: Wikileaks, Assange, and sexual assault

#9 Post by Randomizer » Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:43 pm

Octavious wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:40 pm
One wonders if you'd use the dementia insult against a younger president. Fine to disagree with the chap, but let's avoid straying into ageism.
There maybe another mental health diagnosis. But anyone his age that recently said three different times that his American born father was German is probably suffering and dementia is a likely reason.

orathaic
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Re: Wikileaks, Assange, and sexual assault

#10 Post by orathaic » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:22 pm

Can we not use undiagnosed medical conditions as slurs? Trump has done enough wrong without throwing people with dementia under the bus.
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Carl Tuckerson
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Re: Wikileaks, Assange, and sexual assault

#11 Post by Carl Tuckerson » Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:31 pm

Not to mention that an American-born father being "German" is not at all ridiculous. I describe myself as "German" and "French" whenever I'm discussing my ancestry, because I am descended from French and German settlers. His family is demonstrably from Germany. orathaic is right, there's plenty enough to be said critically of this president without scraping the bottom of the barrel and insulting dementia patients by comparison.
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Randomizer
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Re: Wikileaks, Assange, and sexual assault

#12 Post by Randomizer » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:02 pm

Note that Trump's past medical reports going back to his alleged bone spurs have been later changed by the doctors or family members aware that the reports were false. The Trump family bribed to get Donald out of being sent to Vietnam.

Professional assessments of Trump's mental health:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_of_Donald_Trump
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/201 ... story.html
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... nald-trump

Trump has gone well past explainable reasons for his false statements. It has become pathological for him to lie about almost anything he says and he's ridiculous denials when confronted with video recording of his own recent statements.

Carl Tuckerson
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Re: Wikileaks, Assange, and sexual assault

#13 Post by Carl Tuckerson » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:09 pm

Randomizer wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:02 pm
Note that Trump's past medical reports going back to his alleged bone spurs have been later changed by the doctors or family members aware that the reports were false. The Trump family bribed to get Donald out of being sent to Vietnam.

Professional assessments of Trump's mental health:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_of_Donald_Trump
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/201 ... story.html
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... nald-trump

Trump has gone well past explainable reasons for his false statements. It has become pathological for him to lie about almost anything he says and he's ridiculous denials when confronted with video recording of his own recent statements.
What does this have to do with Assange??

orathaic
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Re: Wikileaks, Assange, and sexual assault

#14 Post by orathaic » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:08 pm

Nothing. In the modern era only the Trump Show is on, every channel, all the time.

See also: "firehose of falsehood model of propaganda"
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Carl Tuckerson
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Re: Wikileaks, Assange, and sexual assault

#15 Post by Carl Tuckerson » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:03 pm

Octavious wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:06 am
That awkward moment when you realise that you've locked yourself in an embassy for most of a decade to escape a maximum sentence of five years...
I heard something interesting about this--apparently the reason the charge is so small is because they are hitting him with some minor crime that's not directly related to his big WikiLeaks-related breaches, so they don't have to worry about potential Constitutional protections or similar laws to protect whistleblowers. The US government obviously wants to sidestep the policy discussion involved in the heavier charges that could be brought.
It kinda makes you wonder what they're really up to though, because you're right that that sentence is much smaller than anticipated. Nobody wants to spend five years in a US prison, but he can still easily leave prison and still be a threat to "US security interests," which defeats the whole point of bringing him here, I would think. I hate having to say it about my country but I would not put it past him "having an accident" during those five years.

Randomizer
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Re: Wikileaks, Assange, and sexual assault

#16 Post by Randomizer » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:15 am

Carl Tuckerson wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:09 pm
Randomizer wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:02 pm
Note that Trump's past medical reports going back to his alleged bone spurs have been later changed by the doctors or family members aware that the reports were false. The Trump family bribed to get Donald out of being sent to Vietnam.

Professional assessments of Trump's mental health:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_of_Donald_Trump
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/201 ... story.html
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... nald-trump

Trump has gone well past explainable reasons for his false statements. It has become pathological for him to lie about almost anything he says and he's ridiculous denials when confronted with video recording of his own recent statements.
What does this have to do with Assange??
It's Candidate Trump's friend to President Trump's latest memory failure. The press had no trouble finding video that his staff is denying happen.

Smokey Gem
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Re: Wikileaks, Assange, and sexual assault

#17 Post by Smokey Gem » Mon May 06, 2019 1:54 pm

Assange is exactly like a lot of Australian exports.

It is good for you but leaves a foul taste in the mouth .Like Vegemite.

Smokey Gem
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Re: Wikileaks, Assange, and sexual assault

#18 Post by Smokey Gem » Mon May 06, 2019 1:57 pm

I regards to his sexual assault charges I have no opinion until I know a lot more . I believe that is a matter of infinite more importance than the demands from the US of A.
Putting a country before a person is why we are in this mess world wide but I have hope.

Smokey Gem
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Re: Wikileaks, Assange, and sexual assault

#19 Post by Smokey Gem » Mon May 06, 2019 1:57 pm

One bad act does not a monster make nor a good act create and angle.

Smokey Gem
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Re: Wikileaks, Assange, and sexual assault

#20 Post by Smokey Gem » Mon May 06, 2019 1:58 pm

Or angel even

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