MAFIA XXXVII: THE WHEEL OF WEB-TIME

[flash2015]

@brainbomb - It could be just a not well thought strategy...or it could be a weak attempt by mafia to lead town astray. Given that at least I don't have any other leads yet, voting for foxcastle appears to be a better choice than just voting randomly.

[DrCJG]

@Teacher2 - Not a lot to have thoughts on...

1) I have read previous games with Brain - and was excited to play with his "personality" ... I am still excited, but now i have greater respect for how effective it is at sheltering him while allowing him to get reactions from other players... I generally townlean him for actively drawing people into conversation on D1... I reread and I'm not sure I can get behind Jamie's claim that he scumslipped... I think Brain is a little too comfortable in his madness to be actually scumslipping... but I'd like to hear more from Jamie on this if no one else is going to comment on it.

2) Fox seemed to react a little to Brain, but it seemed largely joke based... at least I found it funny... but his support of the no-lynch does give him a scum notch for me.

3) I think there are still a lot of people who haven't joined the conversation... I was hoping I could use peterbot as a crutch for this... but perhaps I need to go back and start taking notes.

[flash2015]

@Jamiet, can you explain again what the scumslip was?

[brainbomb]

@brainbomb - It could be just a not well thought strategy...or it could be a weak attempt by mafia to lead town astray. Given that at least I don't have any other leads yet, voting for foxcastle appears to be a better choice than just voting randomly.

Its been done before. Mafia have proposed no lynch. So have town. This isnt really a reason for someone to deserve to die was my point

[brainbomb]

[*]Teacher, im against no lynching.

[*]yavuzovic quote I had no additional comment. Looks like a valid, earnest observation. I dont know that it is accurate however. Just saying it seemz like classic yav.

[teacher2]

Thanks. To do you the same courtesy, here are my thoughts.

Brain is my hardest slot. Im inclined the opposite way, towards a very slight scum read - in part because I HATE self-votes at almost all times - but I have to do a bit of meta-diving (however unreliable) since I havent seen him in games, only on the forum generally. It is fun though.

I have the same hankering for the PeterBot, so hope we get an answer one way or the other soon enough to make alternative plans if necessary, though I dont want to boot up my old google doc notetaking.

Off the cuff, Ive seen more early content from Bozo than in 36. There, people said that the low content was against meta for him, but he still flipped town. The increased posting/play back within meta gives a very slight town.

I dont think a few slots (Ive been particularly looking for Damo) have posted yet. The fact that Flash as a new player has been posting as much as he has gives me a slight town.

Despite these thoughts and leanings, nobody is +/-rand at all yet.

[flash2015]

@brainbomb - It could be just a not well thought strategy...or it could be a weak attempt by mafia to lead town astray. Given that at least I don't have any other leads yet, voting for foxcastle appears to be a better choice than just voting randomly.

Its been done before. Mafia have proposed no lynch. So have town. This isnt really a reason for someone to deserve to die was my point

So who else has given us a whiff that they may be Mafia then? The only other suggestion I have is those on the DrCJG wagon - there is no evidence (yet) that DrCJG is Mafia again. This gives Mafia that join that wagon plausible deniability (e.g. "I only joined the wagon because of the other games").

[brainbomb]

@Teacher2 - Not a lot to have thoughts on...

1) I have read previous games with Brain - and was excited to play with his "personality" ... I am still excited, but now i have greater respect for how effective it is at sheltering him while allowing him to get reactions from other players... I generally townlean him for actively drawing people into conversation on D1... I reread and I'm not sure I can get behind Jamie's claim that he scumslipped... I think Brain is a little too comfortable in his madness to be actually scumslipping... but I'd like to hear more from Jamie on this if no one else is going to comment on it.

2) Fox seemed to react a little to Brain, but it seemed largely joke based... at least I found it funny... but his support of the no-lynch does give him a scum notch for me.

3) I think there are still a lot of people who haven't joined the conversation... I was hoping I could use peterbot as a crutch for this... but perhaps I need to go back and start taking notes.

[*]my personality lets me take point. I dont mind pressure as you can see. Shelter is a strange word to describe a (3) wagon halfway into day 1.

[*]James T mcburger is the type of guy to go to mcdonalds, order a burger and be pissed off and storm out when the clerk hands him a burger wrapped in a paper wrap. "I DIDNT SEE WHERE IT SAYS ID HAVE TO UNWRAP A FUCKING BURGER IM DONE"
Tldr: what Jamie sees is what Jamie believes. Jamie doesnt have the mental faculties to put himself in other shoes or to make inferences based on information he lacks. His world simultaneously is both reacting and interpreting only ever what is exactly written.

[*]once again probably a bad reason to settle for someone day 1

[brainbomb]

I think im okay with dying day 1.
We get plenty if info and I can win with my team whether dead or alive. Me dying usually helps games. Im too loud and annoying and people just find me over analytical.

Scumreads id say thomas is a new lost scum, not sure how to stay alive
I have a small scumread on worcej

Im solidly townreading
Teacher
Vecna
Foxcastle
Drcjc
Flash <- great so far in town projection


Null on Ike, bozo and peter

[brainbomb]

@brainbomb - It could be just a not well thought strategy...or it could be a weak attempt by mafia to lead town astray. Given that at least I don't have any other leads yet, voting for foxcastle appears to be a better choice than just voting randomly.

Its been done before. Mafia have proposed no lynch. So have town. This isnt really a reason for someone to deserve to die was my point

So who else has given us a whiff that they may be Mafia then? The only other suggestion I have is those on the DrCJG wagon - there is no evidence (yet) that DrCJG is Mafia again. This gives Mafia that join that wagon plausible deniability (e.g. "I only joined the wagon because of the other games").

This post is quite accurate.
The Dr wagon is atrociously based in gamblers fallacy

If you put bad reads in tiers it goes
Tier A (Evidence based, vote count based, ISO)
Tier B (Tinfoil, some evidence)
Tier C (Associative : A can only be scum with B)

Tier D (judging people for OGI, and NAI reasons)
Tier Zero (Gamblers fallacy joke reads)

[bozotheclown]

So yea, I think tracker should hardclaim right now. Seriously. My logic is below.

BUT PLEASE LET PEOPLE EVALUATE THE LOGIC BEFORE ACTUALLY CLAIMING.

We know we have a doctor and a JOAT. Doctor can protect tracker N1 without interfering with tracker abilities. JOAT can heal tracker N2, without interfering with tracker abilities. Doctor can protect tracker N3 without interfering with tracker abilities.

In other words, having the tracker claim provides a knowntown for 4 days of play. It also likely forces scum to use their roleblock on that slot for three nights, leaving the JOAT free to kill N3 as the suspects narrow, and the doctor free to protect a different potential kill target N2.

Now, lets acknowledge the downside – it loses our only investigative role. But a tracker really isn’t as powerful as a cop. It cannot detect the scum kill so long as the ninja is alive. It can detect the serial killer, but that role is a threat to scum as well as town.

So that’s my logic and my view. BUT BEFORE CLAIMING LET PEOPLE RESPOND.

I do not think there is much benefit for the tracker to declare before he has something useful to report. Also, it is risky to count on the doctor to protect the tracker by N3 with multiple ways for the doctor to get killed early.

[brainbomb]

Fake claiming isnt necessary this game.

[bozotheclown]

I am also convinced that a tracker hypo claim is not a good option for this setup.

[DrCJG]

@teacher2 Oh, and I have no real intention of voting for you ##UNVOTE

I would like to see us get a couple wagons rolling by tomorrow morning, but it seems a little early for meaningful wagons given several people are unaccounted for ... so ##Vote Bismark

I have no real problem with Brain's early self-vote, its not alignment indicative to me... seems to just match his erratic personality... I think my use of the word "shelter" is still alright here because I don't think he is a serious wagon... in general i think the erratic behavior (as long as its mixed with occasionally useful analysis or draws out a few interesting responses) actually protects him because its hard to get a majority that want to lynch him yet he is unlikely to be NK'd because he is practically never going to come across as solidly town....

I do find it interesting that he has a slight scumread on Thomas and Worcej... I have a gut scumread on Worcej but no reason for it.... but much like I always scumread Yav, I am trying to ignore it for now.

[Foxcastle]

@Fox: Thoughts on why the two votes stink? Seems defensive? Also, while I sometimes advocate nolynch, we cant do it in a game with this many specialty, potentially killing roles (SK, ninja, vet, JOAT). Its too unlikely to put-off lylo.

Sigh. I should stop trying to have fun with this game and simply stick to boring interrogatives and statements that are entirely impassive and devoid of any playfulness.

Which is to say, "stink" was an attempt at cheese humor.

But to actually answer your question... I'm not sure Brain's vote was serious at all, since half of Brain's votes are unserious this early in the game (or this early in any day phase, generally...). But calling me out for Thinking Like Scum™ on what is clearly a joke post seems like poor reasoning.

For Flash's part, I assume he was sheeping Brain, so the same applies, along with a general admonition about the unwisdom of sheeping Brain.

And I have pushed for No Lynch Day One consistently from my first game, and still think it's a good idea because I'm inclined to think it saves Town lives. The dynamics are a little different in this game, but putting off LyLo is generally what we want to to do... What do you mean by "Its too unlikely to put-off lylo"??

[yavuzovic]

On mobile so not a huge post, but considering DrCJG has been mafia now for 2 games in a row, he could totally be it again. ##vote DrCJG

This logic brings us to the idea of teacher is town.

Its a random die; past games have no bearing on present alignment.

Working through an actual tracker claim logic. Going to discuss in a minute.

@Yavu: Thanks for the opportunity -- I obv!town in any alignment, and almost any role, so do what you will.

There's a slight feeling says teacher slightly shows himself as mafia. Very slightly - unlike showing actually this is like scumslipping - argh, you understand whatever it is. Is that a scummy behaviour or towny behaviour. When I said teacher is like he was town, I wasn't serious: It's too early for reading how someone is. In addition, I remember you said when you are scum you will be like how you were town.
Anyway I repeat my question:
Is that a scummy behaviour or towny behaviour?

[yavuzovic]

I'll keep the vote on BB for now. Maybe change it after some time.

[Jamiet99uk]

I think Brainbomb is either the traitor or was attempting to subtly signal to the traitor in his early posts. Especially the one where he describes himself as a werewolf. As you may or may not know "Werewolf" was the original version of the game which became Mafia - and the Werewolf team were the evil minority as the Mafia are now.

[yavuzovic]

endvotes 0/10

Vote Count 1.2
Brainbomb (3) Jamiet99uk, yavuzovic, thedipplayer
DrCJG (3)RagingIke297, teacher2, worcej
Foxcastle (2) brainbomb, flash2015
Vecna (1)Peterlund
Teacher2 (1) DrCJG
Jamiet99uk (1) Vecna
Flash2015(1) bozotheclown
No-lynch (1) Foxcastle

currently no one is set to be lynched.

endvotes 0/10

##CALL GM
After now, can you tell how many hours remained?

[yavuzovic]

I think Brainbomb is either the traitor or was attempting to subtly signal to the traitor in his early posts. Especially the one where he describes himself as a werewolf. As you may or may not know "Werewolf" was the original version of the game which became Mafia - and the Werewolf team were the evil minority as the Mafia are now.

I love werewolf and sometimes play with my friends.