M1027: Community - Game Thread

[Chaqa]

Try being here since the beginning lol

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

Try being here since the beginning lol

With these weirdos?! I’d go mad

[sweetandcool]

For the record, I'm not writing off Will's plan as Scum and bad by default.

It has its merits, but I think we can do better.
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Will's Plan:

VT Vote sweet/BK3K

Investigator scans X (X for unknown, not sweet/BK3K).

RESULT:
1. X is paired with sweet + BK3K then consequently all are town.
2. X is not paired.

If (2), then DK X. If X is Town, then sweet + BK3K are Mafia. If X is Mafia, hooray!

Conclusion: This is about as good as a cop scan. We can expect Mafia to either NK BK3K/X or hunt for the Investigator, who could be anyone but themselves and sweetandcool.

If Mafia NK BK3K or X, then we have two town clears or a town clear and one caught scum.
If Mafia hunts for investigator and gets it wrong then we have three town clears or two clears and a caught scum..
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sweetandcool's Plan:

VT Vote N, where N is not sweet/BK3K.
Investigator scans M where M is not sweet/BK3K.

1. N and M are not paired.

Result: sweet and BK3K are townclear. We now resolve the 50/50.

2. N and M are paired. [This result is complex, please bear with me].

If the nightkill was NOT M then this is the situation:

We have sweet/BK3K and N/M and 3 players left over. Either scum is in the left overs or is in one of the pairs. We would then daykill a left over. This would form three pairs: sweet/BK3K, N/M, and R1/R2. Scum would have to kill from a pair, allowing the survivor to decided which pair is scum.

The worst possible scenario is if investigator dies tonight AND we misskill. Then
at least we can guarantee a 50/50 where one town has to decided between two pairs. Otherwise, we automatically win, particularly due to the potential of the investigator claiming.

BUT

If the nightkill was M, then we only get N as a townclear. The investigator can claim. We would have sweet/BK3k, N, investigator, and 3 leftovers. If we misskill a leftover, we could then check the alignment between investigator and a leftover. We would then know which pair, sweet/BK3K or the two leftovers is scum.
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SUMMARY:

sweetandcool's plan, if everything goes as bad as possible, will guarantee at least a 50/50, and that's ignoring methods other than mechs.

If the investigator is the nightkill in Will's plan, then we have a problem.

ALSO:

While I understand the paranoia about BK3K and sweetandcool being the Mafia team, in my opinion there is strong evidence that is not the case. Additionally, we could just "pretend" that we are Town and then if we make it to MILO then ya'll could decide to resolve us, since the odds are pretty low we survive that long unless we are Mafia.

[sweetandcool]

Case for why BK3K and I are not the scumteam:

If we are the scumteam, then Will's assertion that I purposefully tried to draw the investigation makes sense. That I knew BK3K would be flipped, and my previous attention-getting behaviour meant I would be the DK well before I met my win condition, so I instead got paired with them and am now doing my darndest to spike Will's game-winning plan.

COMMENT: (It's ironic that I was actually trying to draw a DK, so that I could fake claim, so that I could eat a NK for the investigator.)

However, if that were the case, then why did I advocate for BK3K to be the VT Vote in the first place? Why didn't I advocate for the inferior plan of VT Vote ghug? I think bussing the VT Vote is crazy and there is no benefit to get my teammate scanned.

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Okay, that was a short case, mainly because I'm too tired to care about making a tedious case.

If this isn't enough to convince you, just look at BK3K and my behaviour today, and I think we are pretty obviously not Mafia. That or we are incredible actors who have played a bizarre game.

[sweetandcool]

I would now like to encourage VT votes so that we can resolve this.

VT votes for BK3K indicate you want to follow Will's plan.
VT votes for someone else besides sweetandcool indicate you want to follow sweetandcool's plan.

Let's resolve this as quick as possible.

If it is ambiguous whether we have enough people on board with a plan, then I think we default to Will's plan, since it is more likely absentees will already be following it.

The worst thing possible is for us is not too coordinate, so lets avoid that at all costs.

Oh, and if we follow sweetandcool's plan, let's say if there is a tie, then the first person that garnered two votes will be the choice.

[sweetandcool]

Also, due to paranoia, we will not count sweetandcool or BK3K votes for the purposes of tiebreak, unless it is absolutely necessary.

VT Vote Heart.

[Jamiet99uk]

All end voters are super suspicious. Mafia plan worked like a charm and it makes me sick.

WTF guys?

##CALL GM

If the investigator is night killed, do we still get the result of his investigation?

Yes. Investigation processes first.

Wow, this is powerful news.

[Jamiet99uk]

Yeah, when you get to like 40+ games of Mafia here like me, you can scold my take here.

I have seen MANY games die out because scum drag a game out and keep phases running longer than needed by not hammering phases, to get town interest to drain and their desire to keep the process going.

You've played 40+ games? How do you have the bandwidth? This is exhausting lol. And I say this as one of the lower effort players

Been here since like 2018? We used to fire a game off every month.

We only play one game at a time, and usually with a week or two off between them (longer, these days).

I have played a similar number I think, and I've GM-ed at least a dozen times.

Sorry for my silence for the past while, I was busy.

VTs are guessing BK2J, yes?

[Jamiet99uk]

sweetandcool's Plan:

VT Vote N, where N is not sweet/BK3K.
Investigator scans M where M is not sweet/BK3K.

1. N and M are not paired.

Result: sweet and BK3K are townclear. We now resolve the 50/50.

Eh?

How does this townclear both of you?

How does proving that, for instance, Worcej and Chaqa are not paired, reveal anything about your alignment, Sweet?

[Jamiet99uk]

Why does the Bot say that Chaqa is having a baby?

[rdrivera2005]

It's the abundance of shit takes like this one that has made this the single most difficult game of Mafia for me, which is shocking considering how town-sided the investigation mechanic is. I can't sort when too many people are saying things that are helpful to Mafia.

Yeah, when you get to like 40+ games of Mafia here like me, you can scold my take here.

I have seen MANY games die out because scum drag a game out and keep phases running longer than needed by not hammering phases, to get town interest to drain and their desire to keep the process going.

You've played 40+ games? How do you have the bandwidth? This is exhausting lol. And I say this as one of the lower effort players

I have played even more. Probably that's why I don't post that much

[rdrivera2005]

sweetandcool's Plan:

VT Vote N, where N is not sweet/BK3K.
Investigator scans M where M is not sweet/BK3K.

1. N and M are not paired.

Result: sweet and BK3K are townclear. We now resolve the 50/50.

Eh?

How does this townclear both of you?

How does proving that, for instance, Worcej and Chaqa are not paired, reveal anything about your alignment, Sweet?

If they aren't aligned one of them is scum. If one them is scum then Sweet and B3K are town because they have same alignment and there is 2 scum left.

Sweet plan is good. Still not sure if it's better then Will's, there are many possibilities. What I fear is we don't have time to change route at this point. Night activity is a lot lower then day usually.

[Jamiet99uk]

sweetandcool's Plan:

VT Vote N, where N is not sweet/BK3K.
Investigator scans M where M is not sweet/BK3K.

1. N and M are not paired.

Result: sweet and BK3K are townclear. We now resolve the 50/50.

Eh?

How does this townclear both of you?

How does proving that, for instance, Worcej and Chaqa are not paired, reveal anything about your alignment, Sweet?

If they aren't aligned one of them is scum. If one them is scum then Sweet and B3K are town because they have same alignment and there is 2 scum left.

Right but how do you find out whether B3K is aligned with Sweet, by not investigating B3K?

[BK3K]

Eh?

How does this townclear both of you?

How does proving that, for instance, Worcej and Chaqa are not paired, reveal anything about your alignment, Sweet?

If they aren't aligned one of them is scum. If one them is scum then Sweet and B3K are town because they have same alignment and there is 2 scum left.

Right but how do you find out whether B3K is aligned with Sweet, by not investigating B3K?

Sweet and I are already mechanically guaranteed to be aligned from last night's investigation. I made a chart that I think shows Just's plan to be pretty tight. I don't want to do all the analysis on Sweets plan.



VT Vote BK3K

[BK3K]

If they aren't aligned one of them is scum. If one them is scum then Sweet and B3K are town because they have same alignment and there is 2 scum left.

Right but how do you find out whether B3K is aligned with Sweet, by not investigating B3K?

Sweet and I are already mechanically guaranteed to be aligned from last night's investigation. I made a chart that I think shows Just's plan to be pretty tight. I don't want to do all the analysis on Sweets plan.



VT Vote BK3K

In the above, you can ignore the two scenarios where X is night killed and the cop. Co-op can't investigate self

[Jamiet99uk]

Right, thank you, I see. That makes sense. Either you're both town, or both scum.

[BK3K]

Now I’m going to say that BK and sweet are both probably town. It would be really unlucky if they were both mafia

Here's where I wonder if we drop the parity cop for the next night phase: if VTs calibrate the investigation off of either BK or Sweet, we will find out whether the two of them together have an opposite alignment to some third person. With only 2 scum left after we dayvote Ghug, then if BK, Sweet, and the VT Target all share an alignment, all 3 are confirmed town. If they are opposite then we've either towncleared 2 and caught 1 scum or caught both scum. What do people think about that?
[/]

From now on, let's call it Heart's plan. He suggested it first, and Just Will really annoyed me last night

[BK3K]

Now I’m going to say that BK and sweet are both probably town. It would be really unlucky if they were both mafia

Here's where I wonder if we drop the parity cop for the next night phase: if VTs calibrate the investigation off of either BK or Sweet, we will find out whether the two of them together have an opposite alignment to some third person. With only 2 scum left after we dayvote Ghug, then if BK, Sweet, and the VT Target all share an alignment, all 3 are confirmed town. If they are opposite then we've either towncleared 2 and caught 1 scum or caught both scum. What do people think about that?
[/]

From now on, let's call it Heart's plan. He suggested it first, and Just Will really annoyed me last night

I fucked up the quotes.

From now on, let's call it Heart's plan. He suggested it first, and Just Will really annoyed me last night

[BK3K]

Here's where I wonder if we drop the parity cop for the next night phase: if VTs calibrate the investigation off of either BK or Sweet, we will find out whether the two of them together have an opposite alignment to some third person. With only 2 scum left after we dayvote Ghug, then if BK, Sweet, and the VT Target all share an alignment, all 3 are confirmed town. If they are opposite then we've either towncleared 2 and caught 1 scum or caught both scum. What do people think about that?

From now on, let's call it Heart's plan. He suggested it first, and Just Will really annoyed me last night

I fucked up the quotes.

From now on, let's call it Heart's plan. He suggested it first, and Just Will really annoyed me last night

[Jamiet99uk]

Try being here since the beginning lol

Some of us have been here a long time.

Look at this from the fossil record - a thread of us bitching at each other in 2015:

https://www.webdiplomacy.net/forum.php?viewthread=1316811#1316811