MAFIA 66: The Battle for Olympus - Game Thread [hidden]

[TheMadMonarch]

I've got replies lined up, but won't be able to send them for a couple hours (when I get my next free time). For now, ##VOTE bona . I'm open to other kills, but he's dropped hard and fast.

What do you mean by this? Replies lined up normally means that you have them typed up, so I do not see what prevents you from posting them now.

I had them marked and I knew what I wanted to say, but the I was at the end of the period and then had to work for 6 hours.

[TheMadMonarch]

I really don't get why you're pushing on Bona so hard.

Did you read that exchange? Bona avoided questions asked to him, and left rather than engage in hunting.

See this post:

I will give my evidence when you give evidence on your reads list.

that's beside the point

Okay, neglect that point.

Bona let’s solve together.

What do you think of damo’s roleblock claim given vecna’s reads and the lack of an item claim?

[TheMadMonarch]

Ooh, mustn't forget. I need a vote.

So far, I'm not a big Ghug or Bona fan. Considering Bona already has a vote (and that I don't think anyone agrees with the ghug bit) ##VOTE Bona .

I'm towning kgray and bb, but I do that every game, so take little notice.

Macca, I think you were addressing this above in your conversation with Bona, but I am curious to know, since you obviously have more experience playing with Bona than I do:

What was it that made you vote Bona on D1?

I played scum with Bona that game, so I wasn't really paying attention to what he was doing.

I didn't have much in the way of reads, and Bona was a more popular target than Ghug (my other scumread). This information is in my vote post here

[TheMadMonarch]

@macca... So I was thinking about who thinks what about the janitor... And couldn't find your thoughts.

What would you like to know?

Let's take a look at the kills

N1 Vecna
N2 Brainbomb
N3 Ghug
N4 Kak
N6 Darg

N1
I don't think anyone expected Vecna as a PR, and, assuming Damo's claim is true, I don't think the mafia did either. I (especially) understand the worry of using it N1, I know I wouldn't (I'd probably be overruled though).

N2
At this point, I would think scum to be fairly sure of BB's role due to the crumb. I think Mafia at this point benefitted from a visibly dead watcher as it allowed the WW to act more freely (and likely hit townies at this point).

N3
I, for one, did not see PR ghuggles crumbing. After waiting this long I see the value in scum for waiting until they can sure they're getting their money's worth.

N4
This is the one I don't understand. He claimed cop, and it was convincing enough to switch the kill?? (unless they already planned to kill him. Possible, they were just RBing Darg.) There exists another possible reason, which I will get to later.

N6
Darg dies. We all knew he was the cop. What would a janitor here achieve? Nothing. Don't even bother.


So, what does this all mean?
Jack. It means Jack.

Who cares who janitored when? Perhaps a mis-order, perhaps hesitancy, perhaps surprise, we'll never know (until the game ends). I think speculating on this is distracted the thread from the important thing, who are the secret scumbo. I think it's all very WIFOM (did I use that correctly), and could easily be used by scumbos to derail reason wagons. In fact, I believe that there is a distinct possibility that Kak was left uncleansed to generate these discussions. They had already started, and scum didn't lose that much on leaving it. I would think this especially likely if someone like BB was on scumteam. He's not, but if any of y'all know that players better and suspect someone, please bring it up.

[TheMadMonarch]

I don't really believe on this. Everyone have some tells, usually you work hard to avoid doing it.

My main difficulty as scum is evolving my reads. As you know the answers it's hard to naturally change a read over some posts or some action without being forced. And when town you are always changing your mind and having second thoughts.

I've only played one scum game - in a set up that is not analogous to this, in that it had 2 scumteams and I could genuinely be hunting and do townie behaviors. People didn't account for that and so I was able to get by with a lot of scummy stuff because people said my hunting stuff was actually good and had effort. I have not played as scum in a one scum team vs town set up. Among Us is vaguely comparable to this but not really due to the much shorter rounds and the main sources of information not being publicly verifiable, such as locations and pathing. Here everyone has the same record of what was said, by who, and in a timestamped fashion.

I think it's understandable for Bona to not know his own scum tells assuming he hasn't played much scum. Is there anyone alive who can speak to Bona's performances as scum on discord?

Secondly, the highlighted line is just a lie. We all thought that your play was incredibly anti-town, but assumed that scum would back down under the pressure you were under. We thought you were town not because you were a good hunter, but because of your boldness.

This had been the crux of my Bona Townread so far, and the note the people did similar things in our scum game (see above, I wasn't watching him) confirms my belief that he is a scumbo.

[TheMadMonarch]

Something that's interesting to me, is the amount of times Celaph has slipped by. He's been up for the kill a couple of times, but just kept getting by. So much so, there was even discussion about it. Now, he's all fine, What happeened? Where did all those scum reads go?

This is not to say I don't townread Celaph, I do, but it's an interesting thought. Maybe one worth a look by someone who understands this game better than I do.

[yavuzovic]

I will soon come back and read the game. For now ##vote Macca
U don't know much about the Bona case but it seems scum motivated. Don't fall on a trap

[damo666]

@Yav and at @ Macca

Your best guess at the scumteam please

[Jamiet99uk]

@macca... So I was thinking about who thinks what about the janitor... And couldn't find your thoughts.

What would you like to know?

Let's take a look at the kills

N1 Vecna
N2 Brainbomb
N3 Ghug
N4 Kak
N6 Darg

N1
I don't think anyone expected Vecna as a PR, and, assuming Damo's claim is true, I don't think the mafia did either. I (especially) understand the worry of using it N1, I know I wouldn't (I'd probably be overruled though).

N2
At this point, I would think scum to be fairly sure of BB's role due to the crumb. I think Mafia at this point benefitted from a visibly dead watcher as it allowed the WW to act more freely (and likely hit townies at this point).

N3
I, for one, did not see PR ghuggles crumbing. After waiting this long I see the value in scum for waiting until they can sure they're getting their money's worth.

N4
This is the one I don't understand. He claimed cop, and it was convincing enough to switch the kill?? (unless they already planned to kill him. Possible, they were just RBing Darg.) There exists another possible reason, which I will get to later.

N6
Darg dies. We all knew he was the cop. What would a janitor here achieve? Nothing. Don't even bother.


So, what does this all mean?
Jack. It means Jack.

Who cares who janitored when? Perhaps a mis-order, perhaps hesitancy, perhaps surprise, we'll never know (until the game ends). I think speculating on this is distracted the thread from the important thing, who are the secret scumbo. I think it's all very WIFOM (did I use that correctly), and could easily be used by scumbos to derail reason wagons. In fact, I believe that there is a distinct possibility that Kak was left uncleansed to generate these discussions. They had already started, and scum didn't lose that much on leaving it. I would think this especially likely if someone like BB was on scumteam. He's not, but if any of y'all know that players better and suspect someone, please bring it up.

If Macca is town, this is quite an insightful post.

If Macca is scum, this is likely scum!Macca telling us the truth about what actually happened.

[damo666]

##end

[Jamiet99uk]

##end

Why should we end?

[Jamiet99uk]

This makes me worried that we have it wrong and Damo wants us to end before we change our minds.

[damo666]

This makes me worried that we have it wrong and Damo wants us to end before we change our minds.

If I were scum would I be that daft?

It's a good tactic from townpov if you like at the current votes.

If Bona and Macca are both scum Bona could self vote, get a tie and a scum victory.

We need a minimum of 6 votes on one wagon excluding the top 2 wagons themselves.

My end vote is designed to concentrate minds, force the issue ad push scum into a corner.

[Jamiet99uk]

This makes me worried that we have it wrong and Damo wants us to end before we change our minds.

If I were scum would I be that daft?

It's a good tactic from townpov if you like at the current votes.

If Bona and Macca are both scum Bona could self vote, get a tie and a scum victory.

We need a minimum of 6 votes on one wagon excluding the top 2 wagons themselves.

My end vote is designed to concentrate minds, force the issue ad push scum into a corner.

What if I endvote with my vote on Bona. What do you think of that?

[rdrivera2005]

This makes me worried that we have it wrong and Damo wants us to end before we change our minds.

If I were scum would I be that daft?

It's a good tactic from townpov if you like at the current votes.

If Bona and Macca are both scum Bona could self vote, get a tie and a scum victory.

We need a minimum of 6 votes on one wagon excluding the top 2 wagons themselves.

My end vote is designed to concentrate minds, force the issue ad push scum into a corner.

What if I endvote with my vote on Bona. What do you think of that?

If people didn't change rules again, we need majority of end votes on the same person.

[Jamiet99uk]

What if I endvote with my vote on Bona. What do you think of that?

If people didn't change rules again, we need majority of end votes on the same person.

Yes yes, I'm not asking about the rules.

[Chaqa]

I think hammering near EoD tomorrow when we have consensus would be fine, but ending now is a bit much.

If today is Macca v. Bona though, I'm basically staying on Macca.

[rdrivera2005]

@macca... So I was thinking about who thinks what about the janitor... And couldn't find your thoughts.

What would you like to know?

Let's take a look at the kills

N1 Vecna
N2 Brainbomb
N3 Ghug
N4 Kak
N6 Darg

N1
I don't think anyone expected Vecna as a PR, and, assuming Damo's claim is true, I don't think the mafia did either. I (especially) understand the worry of using it N1, I know I wouldn't (I'd probably be overruled though).

N2
At this point, I would think scum to be fairly sure of BB's role due to the crumb. I think Mafia at this point benefitted from a visibly dead watcher as it allowed the WW to act more freely (and likely hit townies at this point).

N3
I, for one, did not see PR ghuggles crumbing. After waiting this long I see the value in scum for waiting until they can sure they're getting their money's worth.

N4
This is the one I don't understand. He claimed cop, and it was convincing enough to switch the kill?? (unless they already planned to kill him. Possible, they were just RBing Darg.) There exists another possible reason, which I will get to later.

N6
Darg dies. We all knew he was the cop. What would a janitor here achieve? Nothing. Don't even bother.


So, what does this all mean?
Jack. It means Jack.

Who cares who janitored when? Perhaps a mis-order, perhaps hesitancy, perhaps surprise, we'll never know (until the game ends). I think speculating on this is distracted the thread from the important thing, who are the secret scumbo. I think it's all very WIFOM (did I use that correctly), and could easily be used by scumbos to derail reason wagons. In fact, I believe that there is a distinct possibility that Kak was left uncleansed to generate these discussions. They had already started, and scum didn't lose that much on leaving it. I would think this especially likely if someone like BB was on scumteam. He's not, but if any of y'all know that players better and suspect someone, please bring it up.

If Macca is town, this is quite an insightful post.

If Macca is scum, this is likely scum!Macca telling us the truth about what actually happened.

Other then exchanging N5 for N6, what is weird to me is Macca ignoring the most obvious reason for N4 (Janitor wasn't online on time). This post didn't make me change my mind.

[rdrivera2005]

I think hammering near EoD tomorrow when we have consensus would be fine, but ending now is a bit much.

If today is Macca v. Bona though, I'm basically staying on Macca.

I don't see a reason to end vote tomorrow. If we have a solid majority we might consider end voting closer to 24 hour mark, but after this is pointless.

[Chaqa]

I think hammering near EoD tomorrow when we have consensus would be fine, but ending now is a bit much.

If today is Macca v. Bona though, I'm basically staying on Macca.

I don't see a reason to end vote tomorrow. If we have a solid majority we might consider end voting closer to 24 hour mark, but after this is pointless.

Oh, to prevent scum shifting wagons to force a tie or flip the kill at the last moment.