MAFIA 66: The Battle for Olympus - Game Thread [hidden]

[kgray]

I don't like the way they weere saved. I was pushing Macca then in Day 3 and he even became the top wagon for some time. If Macca is scum (which I believe), we will reveal a lot of information with their kill.

We cannot be voting for information at this point...

Yav is trying to distance himself from scumpartner Macca as he thinks their dk inevitable.

Maybe. My POE makes it hard for me to make a scumteam without Macca but, I feel like if Macca is town then they're the easiest target for scum to push as a miskill. So I'm pretty hesitant to vote them. Especially with yav, who I do scumread, using "info" as a reason to push that wagon. Info doesn't matter if we're wrong.

[Chaqa]

Can I be Bona's spokesperson?

[kgray]

I suppose you should take this with a grain of salt, but here's the most obvious thing, to me:
m62, posts/days alive: 28.42 (vt, outlier due to being shy in my first game)
m63: posts/days alive: 58.8 (vt)
m64: posts/days alive: 126.17 (scum)
m1016: posts/days alive: 25.5 (vt)
m65: posts/days alive: 97 (pr)
m66: posts/days alive: 77.2 ( )

As vanilla town I generally post in the 50-80 messages/day range, as town PR I post in the 80-100(?) posts/day range, and as scum I generally post anywhere above that.

I will concede that this is a small sample size for scum and town PR, but the vt evidence is very indicative, imo.

How can you look at those numbers as proof that as VT you generally post 50-80 messages per day? Even if your first game is an outlier because you were shy, and M1016 was a mini game so we discount that too, the only data point for you being a VT is M63 at 58.8. And if we include those the average is much lower.

I have two data points

I can't even engage with this when you're trying to use this game to inflate your average VT words/day and simultaneously use your words/day in this game as evidence that you're a VT because it's close to your falsely-inflated VT stats...

And you are focusing on this and not answering my questions about why you think I'm scum. Ridiculous.

[yavuzovic]

Hardly a perfect heuristic but I think chastising town for miskilling is a scumtell.

Bona and yavu D2:

1 minute before EOD:

Worcej wagon is scum motivated

After:

This, Mr. Chaqa, is what happens when you vote for someone you townread

After:

@kgray

I don't wanna say I told you so, but worcej was town.

What's your evidence that this is a scumtell?

I can see the logic behind that, it's because mafia knows already who is who but hear: Worcej wagon rose very suspiciously. Looking from outside, I can still say it's scum motivated. I'm sure that there were multiple mafia members on this wagon. It's also notable to see the surviving player that were an option that day: bona and rivera. It's possible that one of these players was saved by the scum because they had already lost a member EoD1 so they could fairly have actively tried to prevent the death of another member.

[yavuzovic]

I don't like the way they weere saved. I was pushing Macca then in Day 3 and he even became the top wagon for some time. If Macca is scum (which I believe), we will reveal a lot of information with their kill.

We cannot be voting for information at this point...

Yav is trying to distance himself from scumpartner Macca as he thinks their dk inevitable.

I literally scumread macca since D3. I defended them a bit during D2 because everyone started to scumread Macca for lurking and I didn't feel the same way but I've been willing to vote for them since I created my assumption that mafia team has Rivera and Macca together.

[dargorygel]

What is alignment indicative for you? What are your tells that you try to avoid?

I suppose you should take this with a grain of salt, but here's the most obvious thing, to me:
m62, posts/days alive: 28.42 (vt, outlier due to being shy in my first game)
m63: posts/days alive: 58.8 (vt)
m64: posts/days alive: 126.17 (scum)
m1016: posts/days alive: 25.5 (vt)
m65: posts/days alive: 97 (pr)
m66: posts/days alive: 77.2 ( )

As vanilla town I generally post in the 50-80 messages/day range, as town PR I post in the 80-100(?) posts/day range, and as scum I generally post anywhere above that.

I will concede that this is a small sample size for scum and town PR, but the vt evidence is very indicative, imo.

How can you look at those numbers as proof that as VT you generally post 50-80 messages per day? Even if your first game is an outlier because you were shy, and M1016 was a mini game so we discount that too, the only data point for you being a VT is M63 at 58.8. And if we include those the average is much lower.

Further, bona... I asked for a scumtell from you because you sorta brought it up. You gave me a tho g about posting numbers. The easiest thing to manipulate in mafia. I would expect townies to be willing to reveal a little about your mind here. Not necessarily a whole heart-share... But something to urge me to see you as town now, here. This feels like you protecting yourself.

[Bonatogether]

Okay, neglect that point.

Bona let’s solve together.

What do you think of damo’s roleblock claim given vecna’s reads and the lack of an item claim?

If Vecna gave an item to town, they should keep it quiet, so assuming Vecna was not roleblocked, this is the expected outcome.

If Vecna gave an item to scum, either they'd have used it or be holding it to claim for towncred at lylo.

However, the meta is to roleblock nks (apparently - I've never been scum with people who know about this).

If scum has a group of people who know and follow the meta, then damo is scum.

If scum is people who either don't know or don't follow the meta, then damo is likely town.

Since I believe the scumteam to be generally more meta-avoiding people, (barring kgray convinces the others in qt) so I think damo is town.

Why are you talking about me here? Are you implying I'd push for my team to RB Vecna? What basis can you possibly have for that assumption?

Because you had that whole argument about how scum rb their kills? and you said Vecna is a good player, and all?

[Bonatogether]

Can I be Bona's spokesperson?

sure

[dargorygel]

@macca... So I was thinking about who thinks what about the janitor... And couldn't find your thoughts.

[Bonatogether]

How can you look at those numbers as proof that as VT you generally post 50-80 messages per day? Even if your first game is an outlier because you were shy, and M1016 was a mini game so we discount that too, the only data point for you being a VT is M63 at 58.8. And if we include those the average is much lower.

I have two data points

I can't even engage with this when you're trying to use this game to inflate your average VT words/day and simultaneously use your words/day in this game as evidence that you're a VT because it's close to your falsely-inflated VT stats...

And you are focusing on this and not answering my questions about why you think I'm scum. Ridiculous.

When did I say (or imply) that I was using this game to inflate my VT words/day? I'm confused.

[Bonatogether]

I suppose you should take this with a grain of salt, but here's the most obvious thing, to me:
m62, posts/days alive: 28.42 (vt, outlier due to being shy in my first game)
m63: posts/days alive: 58.8 (vt)
m64: posts/days alive: 126.17 (scum)
m1016: posts/days alive: 25.5 (vt)
m65: posts/days alive: 97 (pr)
m66: posts/days alive: 77.2 ( )

As vanilla town I generally post in the 50-80 messages/day range, as town PR I post in the 80-100(?) posts/day range, and as scum I generally post anywhere above that.

I will concede that this is a small sample size for scum and town PR, but the vt evidence is very indicative, imo.

How can you look at those numbers as proof that as VT you generally post 50-80 messages per day? Even if your first game is an outlier because you were shy, and M1016 was a mini game so we discount that too, the only data point for you being a VT is M63 at 58.8. And if we include those the average is much lower.

Further, bona... I asked for a scumtell from you because you sorta brought it up. You gave me a tho g about posting numbers. The easiest thing to manipulate in mafia. I would expect townies to be willing to reveal a little about your mind here. Not necessarily a whole heart-share... But something to urge me to see you as town now, here. This feels like you protecting yourself.

I don't know what would be a town or scumtell for me. I have similar basic ideas for how to play each, and I'm not sure how to distinguish the two from the outside.

[dargorygel]

Why would you townread me off of a shared read in the first place? That seems like a crappy reason.

As I said to food. You were going quite strongly against the grain, which seemed very townie to me.

I must have missed it when you said that. That's not alignment-indicative for me.

Here you seem to indicate knowledge of your tells... But today you state that you do not know your tells. Can you are chaqa clarify this?

[dargorygel]

You OR chaqa.

[rdrivera2005]

My vote had nothing to do with your 'claim'.

Anyway, what do you make of my theory that you, me and rdr are good Janitor candidates? And if I am to believe you it's rdr. Quite happy to vote rdr.

I think your theory is bullshit. If I was Janitor I would have used my power at N1. And I expect you or Jamie to use it at N2. Not using it probably means that Mafia is too cautious or that Janitor is a deep threat that don't want to risk to be seen/reported/etc.

Although this is contradictory... shortly following rdr saying that the Janitor wouldn't be used while the Ninja is around, rdr says that HE, if Janitor, would fire on N1.

Hmm...

@rdr, how do you feel about these mechanics at this point? What do you think happened with the Janitor?

I don't think it's contradictory. Yav was telling he believe Brain could have seen me killing Vecna and told I was Janitor. I called it as bullshit because I believe Ninja is doing the kill unless Janitor was used (I believe Janitor can be seen visiting to clean so it make sense for him also to do the kill).

About what happened with Janitor, I see 3 options:
1)Scum was afraid of Watcher and maybe binoculars and just didn't use it until the point it has no use.
2)Chaqa is the Janitor and wad RBed N3 (,from outside POV you can include me here).
3)Scum decided to not use the Janitor to either generate confusion or in the hope that WW start eating (town) people knowing the flipped roles.

Which is more likely? I don't know, I would bet on 3. Option 1 isn't really likely as they used the RB every night and with the Driver it's possible to avoid been Watched quite easily.

[kgray]

If Vecna gave an item to town, they should keep it quiet, so assuming Vecna was not roleblocked, this is the expected outcome.

If Vecna gave an item to scum, either they'd have used it or be holding it to claim for towncred at lylo.

However, the meta is to roleblock nks (apparently - I've never been scum with people who know about this).

If scum has a group of people who know and follow the meta, then damo is scum.

If scum is people who either don't know or don't follow the meta, then damo is likely town.

Since I believe the scumteam to be generally more meta-avoiding people, (barring kgray convinces the others in qt) so I think damo is town.

Why are you talking about me here? Are you implying I'd push for my team to RB Vecna? What basis can you possibly have for that assumption?

Because you had that whole argument about how scum rb their kills? and you said Vecna is a good player, and all?

I never argued that scum normally RB their NK...? I talked about hypotheticals but I didn't say that was standard. I honestly have no idea if it is.

I didn't think Vecna was a surprising NK based on his reputation, but that doesn't have anything to do with a RB.

[rdrivera2005]

that's beside the point

Okay, neglect that point.

Bona let’s solve together.

What do you think of damo’s roleblock claim given vecna’s reads and the lack of an item claim?

If Vecna gave an item to town, they should keep it quiet, so assuming Vecna was not roleblocked, this is the expected outcome.

If Vecna gave an item to scum, either they'd have used it or be holding it to claim for towncred at lylo.

However, the meta is to roleblock nks (apparently - I've never been scum with people who know about this).

If scum has a group of people who know and follow the meta, then damo is scum.

If scum is people who either don't know or don't follow the meta, then damo is likely town.

Since I believe the scumteam to be generally more meta-avoiding people, (barring kgray convinces the others in qt) so I think damo is town.

Honestly, the meta is to RB the kill when a doc is in play. In this setup the only way scum would RB the kill is if they knew Vecna was inventor because they know there was no doc.
I looked at Vecna's post and can't find any Inventor crumb.

[dargorygel]

I think your theory is bullshit. If I was Janitor I would have used my power at N1. And I expect you or Jamie to use it at N2. Not using it probably means that Mafia is too cautious or that Janitor is a deep threat that don't want to risk to be seen/reported/etc.

Although this is contradictory... shortly following rdr saying that the Janitor wouldn't be used while the Ninja is around, rdr says that HE, if Janitor, would fire on N1.

Hmm...

@rdr, how do you feel about these mechanics at this point? What do you think happened with the Janitor?

I don't think it's contradictory. Yav was telling he believe Brain could have seen me killing Vecna and told I was Janitor. I called it as bullshit because I believe Ninja is doing the kill unless Janitor was used (I believe Janitor can be seen visiting to clean so it make sense for him also to do the kill).

About what happened with Janitor, I see 3 options:
1)Scum was afraid of Watcher and maybe binoculars and just didn't use it until the point it has no use.
2)Chaqa is the Janitor and wad RBed N3 (,from outside POV you can include me here).
3)Scum decided to not use the Janitor to either generate confusion or in the hope that WW start eating (town) people knowing the flipped roles.

Which is more likely? I don't know, I would bet on 3. Option 1 isn't really likely as they used the RB every night and with the Driver it's possible to avoid been Watched quite easily.

Do you then expect a janitor tonight?

[kgray]

I have two data points

I can't even engage with this when you're trying to use this game to inflate your average VT words/day and simultaneously use your words/day in this game as evidence that you're a VT because it's close to your falsely-inflated VT stats...

And you are focusing on this and not answering my questions about why you think I'm scum. Ridiculous.

When did I say (or imply) that I was using this game to inflate my VT words/day? I'm confused.

You said you have two data points after I acknowledged reasons you might exclude the two lower-posting games (your first and a mini game) but only listed one other VT game. So I assumed you were using this game as your "second data point." Did I misinterpret that?

[rdrivera2005]

How can you look at those numbers as proof that as VT you generally post 50-80 messages per day? Even if your first game is an outlier because you were shy, and M1016 was a mini game so we discount that too, the only data point for you being a VT is M63 at 58.8. And if we include those the average is much lower.

Further, bona... I asked for a scumtell from you because you sorta brought it up. You gave me a tho g about posting numbers. The easiest thing to manipulate in mafia. I would expect townies to be willing to reveal a little about your mind here. Not necessarily a whole heart-share... But something to urge me to see you as town now, here. This feels like you protecting yourself.

I don't know what would be a town or scumtell for me. I have similar basic ideas for how to play each, and I'm not sure how to distinguish the two from the outside.

I don't really believe on this. Everyone have some tells, usually you work hard to avoid doing it.

My main difficulty as scum is evolving my reads. As you know the answers it's hard to naturally change a read over some posts or some action without being forced. And when town you are always changing your mind and having second thoughts.

[rdrivera2005]

Although this is contradictory... shortly following rdr saying that the Janitor wouldn't be used while the Ninja is around, rdr says that HE, if Janitor, would fire on N1.

Hmm...

@rdr, how do you feel about these mechanics at this point? What do you think happened with the Janitor?

I don't think it's contradictory. Yav was telling he believe Brain could have seen me killing Vecna and told I was Janitor. I called it as bullshit because I believe Ninja is doing the kill unless Janitor was used (I believe Janitor can be seen visiting to clean so it make sense for him also to do the kill).

About what happened with Janitor, I see 3 options:
1)Scum was afraid of Watcher and maybe binoculars and just didn't use it until the point it has no use.
2)Chaqa is the Janitor and wad RBed N3 (,from outside POV you can include me here).
3)Scum decided to not use the Janitor to either generate confusion or in the hope that WW start eating (town) people knowing the flipped roles.

Which is more likely? I don't know, I would bet on 3. Option 1 isn't really likely as they used the RB every night and with the Driver it's possible to avoid been Watched quite easily.

Do you then expect a janitor tonight?

Only if scum want to have some fun and are sure Vecna didn't gave binoculars. What's the point with only you and VTs?
One thing I keep thinking is that Janitor might not be around last EON, otherwise he could have Janitored Kak to keep people guessing about the Cop.