M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread - HIDDEN

[rdrivera2005]

And after Vecna comments on Seth I did a re-read on him and I am just not sure anymore. I still feel he was deliberately distorting my comments, but he wasn't as hedgy as I thought.

##unvote

[BunnyGo]

@Chaqa / Vecna / BunnyGo - Where are you guys?

##vote BunnyGo. Come back and play the game.

I'll do my best.

Up to this point, you didn't ask, but I've never seen Damo's banana and have no desire to.

I too get Vecna and Fluminator confused despite them having very different names. I think their posting style sometimes is similar. Vecna gets more excited than Flum, but when they are analytical and calm it is similar.

I agree with rdr's statement that the reason people voted teacon was not good. I also agree that to this point, Seth is still triggering my warnings, but I haven't put my finger on why.


Oh and @bo: I got in a car accident (well...got a ticket.)

Maybe I'm missing something but rdr voted teacon day 1 and rdr still had teacon as a scumread until recently (maybe that changed?) what time period are you referring to that people voting teacon was not for a good reason?

He made some comment day 2. That's all I've been reading to catch up.

[Vecna]

Darg's morning tinfoil hat.

webDipMaf has had a trend lately that scum hide among the low-posters. Jamie, for instance, has indicated his intention to vote primarily among the low-posters.

Looking at the bot's summary of yesterday, two players who might not normally be among D1's top-talkers had extensive conversations with each other. (Bo and ghug) But their actual content was fluffy. First, they had a haiku battle of ginger stuff. Which was entertaining, and it WAS a quasi joke (joiku?) phase...

But then this N they have been discussing kgray's odd comments. And yet they, while presenting argumentative arguments arguing about kgray's thoughts, motivations, and purpose in life. But actually, their argements do not really... ummm... go anywhere.

They are both often fear-killed. Low-posters are liable to early daykill. Would it be beyond these two to formulate this sort of fakery?

There IS a marked difference in their postings. One is more erudite. One is more often simply reactive. But what-if what-if what-if these two are putting on a show?

Add to that... Jaimie has not noted anything about low posters.

Something to put away for later rememberating...

Hmmm, interesting. Would Darg as scum dream all this up?

In conclusion, the majority of responses included some form of town telling, so I think some of these responses include fake town tells. In my opinion, some of the more questionable of these responses were those of seth, Hamilton, ghug, kgray, and bo_sox.

I meant to include Chaqa on this list.

With that inclusion, it suddenly becomes quite a good list of scumreads. Cant believe im actually reading and agreeing with stuff produced by bozo, but eh....yeah.

Apparently it warranted a NK on N1

I will suggest that the times in question are when I'm probably most active on this site in general: The late afternoon from around 3-4pm until about 6pm is when I go on my PC after doing whatever menial tasks I can find around the house to not feel like a complete wastrel while unemployed. I then go and make & eat dinner from about 6ish until about 8-8:30ish, and then I come back to my computer again (unless there's football I'm watchign on, in which case I won't be on much until about 10pm). Then after doing my reading and posting, I go and do something more interesting (whether that be playing something or watching something) for a few more hours, and might sporadically check the site. And then whenever I start feeling like sleep, I might check in again before I go to bed - This'll usually be somewhere between 2am and 5am.

As I know you're the kind of guy to check this, I'm sure you can go and look up all the times I posted last game and verify that the vast majority were in those same clusters - Don't forget that daylight savings has kicked in in the UK between the two games though. I look forward to receiving said verification

OK, but that does not explain why your posting clusters seem to align with bo_sox, or why you both answered my question at the same time.

When I learn Bo_Sox's life routine, I'll get back to you on that front. But if you're suggesting I changed the times I was around because of a daychat, I'm pointing out that you're categorically wrong.

Hmmm, interesting

Interesting

The level of difference between how HR engages bozo here, and how he engaged me last game is......very very different.

While both are sort of a similair level of abstraction in terms of how ridiculous is it to use it as a method of scumreading.

This almost feels like engaging out of guilt to brush the argument away.

Thoughts from other people? I should probably not get into another dogfight with HR this game, but at the same time, it should probably be mentioned.

[BunnyGo]

I'll do my best.

Up to this point, you didn't ask, but I've never seen Damo's banana and have no desire to.

I too get Vecna and Fluminator confused despite them having very different names. I think their posting style sometimes is similar. Vecna gets more excited than Flum, but when they are analytical and calm it is similar.

I agree with rdr's statement that the reason people voted teacon was not good. I also agree that to this point, Seth is still triggering my warnings, but I haven't put my finger on why.


Oh and @bo: I got in a car accident (well...got a ticket.)

Maybe I'm missing something but rdr voted teacon day 1 and rdr still had teacon as a scumread until recently (maybe that changed?) what time period are you referring to that people voting teacon was not for a good reason?

Also sorry I should have first said sorry about the crash and ticket, hope you are doing ok. Neither of those things are ever fun.

The crash was tongue in cheek, but the ticket was real. Happens.

[BunnyGo]

No.

If anything it displays consistency with his desire to claim his role yesterday. He's used to a mindset where PRs can claim to clear themselves and nothing has broken him of that yet, which actually pushes him more towards town for me.

OK, I got to here. But I actually had the opposite read here. Seth is very straightforward as scum. He has now lined up his "defense". It goes "but look at my role guys!! I can't be scum, I chose this role specially for this defense, aren't you going to let me use it?"

Which brings to mind, are there any roles scum would never choose at all?

OK, it's late. I'll pick up here tomorrow.

Did you mean to put jamie where you put my name? I'm also not sure I understand the line where you claim jamie/me chose a role for defense?

Yes, that was a mistake from late reading. Catching up at 11 PM is hard.

[rdrivera2005]

@Vecna: HR is blatant as scum, you can see that, right?

I agree that HR is not being helpful, but not sure if he is scum.

I nailed him last game he was scum (and nobody believed me) because he was looking like town but not really scum hunting or pushing his reads, more sitting back making good questions and subtly pushing misskills. I don't see why scum HR would play the way he is playing this game.

But if we fix just on their not answering the simple question, "Why kgray," what's preventing them from telling us. If there is something they spotted that confirms kgray is mafia, don't they owe it to town to put it out there?

Yes, he is being obnoxious and not helpful. But the point is motivation. Why scum HR, that is really great at faking reads, would avoid a simple question and attract all this attention?

[rdrivera2005]

I'll do my best.

Up to this point, you didn't ask, but I've never seen Damo's banana and have no desire to.

I too get Vecna and Fluminator confused despite them having very different names. I think their posting style sometimes is similar. Vecna gets more excited than Flum, but when they are analytical and calm it is similar.

I agree with rdr's statement that the reason people voted teacon was not good. I also agree that to this point, Seth is still triggering my warnings, but I haven't put my finger on why.


Oh and @bo: I got in a car accident (well...got a ticket.)

Maybe I'm missing something but rdr voted teacon day 1 and rdr still had teacon as a scumread until recently (maybe that changed?) what time period are you referring to that people voting teacon was not for a good reason?

He made some comment day 2. That's all I've been reading to catch up.

Just to make clear. Damo voted Teacon because he wrote Vecna instead of Flum. This is a really bad reason to vote him and put Damo in my maybe scum list (finding a reason to jump in a relevant wagon is ascum tactic).

[BunnyGo]

As indicated by me calling them vibes it’s nothing concrete yet. But kgray going back and forth with ghug and jamie made me feel like she was trying to make them suspicious of each other. There were also moments where I thought she was acting pretty town but especially since rdr gave her a pass for her vote for flum and then scumread me and teacon for it I’ve been a little more suspect of both of them.

Man...I gotta play like this more. It makes the hunting feel easier. Seth shows up, posts WALLS of dense texts saying "waaaa? me?!?!?" and then promptly shifts to meaningless dense analysis. ##vote seth based on reading to here. Will see what happens next (I saw teacon is leading with kgray 2nd based on the ghug +Flum vote. Looking forward to seeing why)

bunny, why was this analysis dense to you?

I havent read most of the game, im 70 pages behind, and even from that 1 post you quoted from seth he's instantly a townread for me.

It was the 7-10 posts in a wall with no paragraph breaks, the first few were "why me?" oriented, and then quickly shifting to "how about this other guy? LOOK OVER HERE!" That said, I was tired, but it struck me as off. Seth has struck me as off all game.

What about it makes an instant townread to you? I'm interested in 2 people not caught up sharing impressions.

[BunnyGo]

Man...I gotta play like this more. It makes the hunting feel easier. Seth shows up, posts WALLS of dense texts saying "waaaa? me?!?!?" and then promptly shifts to meaningless dense analysis. ##vote seth based on reading to here. Will see what happens next (I saw teacon is leading with kgray 2nd based on the ghug +Flum vote. Looking forward to seeing why)

Well I mean it may feel easier but the results are what counts right? I'm sorry to hear that my walls of dense text and meaningless dense analysis don't do it for you. Do you mind to send me your contact information so I can put you as a reference?

Another glaring example of a post that should make seth lock-town to people. This is just a top-notch example of him overextending into believing his analysis was fine and shittalking bunny for criticizing it.

What about that says "town"?

[BunnyGo]

<snip>
Looking not so great:
Bo, HB, Macca (depending on whether they continues to actually participate or whether they keeps leaning on that slip/forced thing)

FYI

[Jamiet99uk]

@Vecna: HR is blatant as scum, you can see that, right?

I agree that HR is not being helpful, but not sure if he is scum.

I nailed him last game he was scum (and nobody believed me) because he was looking like town but not really scum hunting or pushing his reads, more sitting back making good questions and subtly pushing misskills. I don't see why scum HR would play the way he is playing this game.

I repeat, I have seen scum HR brazenly and unashamedly push townies to their death, without explanation or apology.

[rdrivera2005]

@Vecna: HR is blatant as scum, you can see that, right?

I agree that HR is not being helpful, but not sure if he is scum.

I nailed him last game he was scum (and nobody believed me) because he was looking like town but not really scum hunting or pushing his reads, more sitting back making good questions and subtly pushing misskills. I don't see why scum HR would play the way he is playing this game.

I repeat, I have seen scum HR brazenly and unashamedly push townies to their death, without explanation or apology.

And who is he pushing this game? A naked vote on Kgray isn't exactly a push.

[BunnyGo]

Regardless, optimal mafia strategy by far is this:

Recruit
take 3 roles out of these 4: Tracker 1, Tracker 2, Universal backup, Diarist

Give a useless town bulletproof N1 to offset the point imbalance (or do the white flag shit if you have skilled players so you have some points leftover for roleblocks or w/e)

All this nonsense of hunting in the low point roles is -bad-. Those are likely not what mafia have.

Just imagine it like this: Scum have low numbers. They need a way to navigate through the PR minefield. They need ways to deal with 2 doctors, 2 trackers, the diarist and other shit that can find them.

If they take the trackers and diarist for themselves, they cannot be found AND they have the tools to find the doctors easily.

Unless scum are completely ignorant, ^ this is the strategy they likely went with.

Are there roles that jump out at you that scum wouldn't take ever? (neither for cheap costs nor for usefulness?)

I'm not understanding your strong townread of Seth. Can you explain more clearly what you're seeing?

[BunnyGo]

How does any of this make me scum, Chaqa?

Think. You are not as stupid as you sometimes pretend to be.

lol I don't think town Jamie has ever said something like this...

Maybe not to you, but he says that shit all the time when he feels he's being unjustly scumread. It was a bit more dramatic in the past, but im really not getting any of the scumreads.

True, but I often base my entire playstyle on my role. No different this time.

You are the person who used to make a big deal about not reading your Role PM.

How can you also be the guy who bases his entire playstyle on his role?

Also, this is actually a pretty good call-out on chaqa (who I think is quite likely scum, in case you hadnt figured that out from my other very subtle hints).

The three people on the Teacon7 wagon have been sitting there for a long time, with no further movement. Since then Teacon has answered the questions that were put to him.

That wagon concerns me.

Vecna's been gone, as you pointed out yourself and defended him for. rd has an well. Both of these are typical. What questions has teacon adequately answered?

You're doing the thing scum HR does where you cast vague aspersions on a wagon as if it's not made up of discrete voters.

Im sitting here, taking notes (not really though, thatd be desperate). "Is this finally what a town Ghug really looks like, or can he even fake this type of shit".

lol no isn't that Maniac?

I don't think I ever actively ignored my role PM... I just said that to stir things up.

You definitely claimed this behaviour, in more than one game.

Wait, wait, wait, wait

Critical thought in between

Is this the same Jamiet that claimed to not even remember that Ghug bussed Summit last game? And that he instantly forgot anything from any past game?

Yet here, he does suddenly slam this bit of info in Chaqa's face.

Look at me doing some critical analysis here. Boy-o-boy, im so proud of myself. If only this shit was ai, and not just me being a dick over shit thats convenient in the moment.

Keep it up. This is either town!vecna doing a better catch up than I am, or a scum!vecna doing such a tryhard. I'm strongly leaning towards town.

[Jamiet99uk]

Darg's morning tinfoil hat.

webDipMaf has had a trend lately that scum hide among the low-posters. Jamie, for instance, has indicated his intention to vote primarily among the low-posters.

Looking at the bot's summary of yesterday, two players who might not normally be among D1's top-talkers had extensive conversations with each other. (Bo and ghug) But their actual content was fluffy. First, they had a haiku battle of ginger stuff. Which was entertaining, and it WAS a quasi joke (joiku?) phase...

But then this N they have been discussing kgray's odd comments. And yet they, while presenting argumentative arguments arguing about kgray's thoughts, motivations, and purpose in life. But actually, their argements do not really... ummm... go anywhere.

They are both often fear-killed. Low-posters are liable to early daykill. Would it be beyond these two to formulate this sort of fakery?

There IS a marked difference in their postings. One is more erudite. One is more often simply reactive. But what-if what-if what-if these two are putting on a show?

Add to that... Jaimie has not noted anything about low posters.

Something to put away for later rememberating...

Hmmm, interesting. Would Darg as scum dream all this up?

@Vecna: First of all, if you actually read the whole thread, you will see that I responded to this, and that I was able to provide evidence of me calling out non-voters on D1 and demanding participation from them, and attacking Chaqa for his lack of participation. So, Darg's initial "observation" was incorrect and I have demonstrated this already.

Second of all, I am currently calling for the execution of the lowest poster in the game. That person's name is Hellenic Riot.

[Jamiet99uk]

Could you fuckers learn to <snip> occasionally if you want to make a three-word comment on a 100,000,000 word post?

You're clogging up the thread horribly. BunnyGo I'm looking at you.

[kgray]

##Vote Jamiet
##Vote Jamiet
##Vote Jamiet
##Vote Jamiet

##vote Jamie

I should elaborate. My case against Jamie is that he asked teacon7 who he thought was pushing a MIS-KILL on him. How would Jamie know? If Jamie flips scum, teacon is clear.

Flum has said he has picked up a Jamie scum tell and when questioned by Ghug as to how confident he is in that tell he has responded with 4 out of 5.

All aboard choo-choo

They were discussing a hypothetical situation which assumes teacon is town, so your case is not a case at all.

[BunnyGo]

Hedging.

Is not.

A scumtell.

Instead.

it is by far

The #1 thing

People get scumread and mislynched for.

blammo

That's a good point in general. I think changing your mind is not a scumtell.

I worry that throwing hedged shade is? You think I'm wrong about that?

[BunnyGo]

<snip> BunnyGo I'm looking at you.

Hi.

[Jamiet99uk]

##vote Jamie

I should elaborate. My case against Jamie is that he asked teacon7 who he thought was pushing a MIS-KILL on him. How would Jamie know? If Jamie flips scum, teacon is clear.

Flum has said he has picked up a Jamie scum tell and when questioned by Ghug as to how confident he is in that tell he has responded with 4 out of 5.

All aboard choo-choo

They were discussing a hypothetical situation which assumes teacon is town, so your case is not a case at all.

THANK YOU. Sigh. At least some people can read things in context. I pointed out that context (Teacon's remarks that I was responding to) but Maniac seems determined to ignore that aspect.