Mafia 57 Matrix

[BismarckAlive]

I am not sure I buy damo's explanation either.

##VOTE damo

NO! Bozo seemed all over it.

So...if Scum understood what was going on, why did they not NK damo?

That's a good question and it puzzled me too. I think that either they didn't buy the slip thing and thought Damo is a possible myslynch or they thought be is the virus and didn't want to waste a myslynch on him. This imply scum wasn6in a big risk on being Virus-vig shot. Or all 5 scum are dumb, which doesn't seems the case considering how things are going until now.

I am not sure this line of questioning is going anywhere, and frankly BunnyGo is simply obfuscating. If we knew what scum are thinking...

[BismarckAlive]

Because they're not as stupid as the rest of you.

When Tom jumped off summit he joined the fledgeling flash wagon. If he'd jumped to damo it'd have been a tie for first.

You think that if he were scum he'd have known Damo wasn't VT and wasn't scum and should have voted for them?

Oh...sh*t.

The damo wagon should be hugely suspect. The scum team knew about that trap from daychat. You (ghug) started talking about that. Demon joined in. Damo fell into a trap. And the scum team had warned each other not to and pounced.

rdr and Bismarck. If they're both town, then scum gave up a chance to daykill a PR/virus on D1.

"Damo wagon is hugely suspect". Until now half of it flipped town.

And when I flip town, 3/4 will have flipped town. Frankly, what information is town going to get by day-killing me? Town will get more information by day-killing one of 3 others that were in the thick of the action: EMC, HR and BunnyGo (the main protagonists in those mad last couple of EoD1 minutes).

[BismarckAlive]

Probably the same reason they roleblocked him, because they thought he had an action.
Why you are still playing dumb?

##vote Bunny

I think it is now obvious Worcej lied about being roleblocked? The GMs would not tell you that an action failed against you, surely? I would believe that, thinking Worcej sacrificed himself to draw the mafia kill.

If the Roleblock is directed against someone with no action, that is not a "fail" unless the Roleblocker is somehow prevented from getting through. You can be roleblocked whether you actually had an action or not. That's the convention here.

I see no reason to assume Worcej lied.

OK! So, what you are saying is: Worcej is VT. Worcej gets roleblocked. Worcej gets a PM from GM overnight saying "You were roleblocked"? Wow! That surprises me, but I have only played a few games here...

[BismarckAlive]

Going to suggest I'm reading Jamie and Bunny as town.

I'm not saying Nanook is scum, but I don't feel their contributions are pro-town.

I have said this since day 1. It helps not knowing people I guess.

I have caught up again...
Lots to think on.

But I am going with a gut vote. I need to go back and think on why it is screaming at me to do so.
##vote bismark

Go back, spend all the time you need and then ponder the question: Is BismarckAlive my top scum read right now?

[BismarckAlive]

It's likely he didn't mean to do it, but the way he made himself appear to be caught scum actually makes people's interactions with him really telling.

Who is the "he" in your post? I'm having pronoun troubles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlzCPxxp8Ys

The person who got daykilled as a result of a scan, obviously.

I reject the premise of question 3 (and Bismarck's scumslip, for that matter).

What scumslip, ghug?

[BunnyGo]

I think it is now obvious Worcej lied about being roleblocked? The GMs would not tell you that an action failed against you, surely? I would believe that, thinking Worcej sacrificed himself to draw the mafia kill.

If the Roleblock is directed against someone with no action, that is not a "fail" unless the Roleblocker is somehow prevented from getting through. You can be roleblocked whether you actually had an action or not. That's the convention here.

I see no reason to assume Worcej lied.

OK! So, what you are saying is: Worcej is VT. Worcej gets roleblocked. Worcej gets a PM from GM overnight saying "You were roleblocked"? Wow! That surprises me, but I have only played a few games here...

Ok. Let’s go down this rabbit hole. Let’s say worcej was lying? Why would scum kill him? Are you thinking the virus and NEB killed him? If so, why? Show me you can actually think.

[BunnyGo]

Who is the "he" in your post? I'm having pronoun troubles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlzCPxxp8Ys

The person who got daykilled as a result of a scan, obviously.

I reject the premise of question 3 (and Bismarck's scumslip, for that matter).

What scumslip, ghug?

No wonder you have no idea why anyone is voting you.

[BunnyGo]

The person who got daykilled as a result of a scan, obviously.

I reject the premise of question 3 (and Bismarck's scumslip, for that matter).

What scumslip, ghug?

No wonder you have no idea why anyone is voting you.

Bozo and I have at DIFFERENT TIMES identified two possible scum slips from you. Your answer to bozo was a falsehood you then explained away by “pregame confusion.” Your answer to mine was to ignore all my posts about it.

[BismarckAlive]

Also, trying to wrap my head around Bunny's Bismark post.

Bunny's question is - why would Bismark want us to think worcej was faking RB? Bismark from my understanding is not completely new, so should know the convention around here.

A) If Bismark is town - I see no reason why. RB claims are partial townclears.

B) If Bismark is scum - scum know who they RB'd and everyone knows if it is successful or not. RBs serve as virus-hunting for scum. So if we ever see 1 kill at night it's either because 1) Scum RB hit the virus, 2) Scum NK hit the virus or 3) Virus withheld a kill. Denying town the benefit of a partial townclear is good way for scum to mitigate the risks of their strategy and sow doubt into the towniness of anyone who claims into the future.

I will also note since we're talking about it that nobody claimed RB last night. Surely they wouldn't have RB'd worcej again.

Ok, so Bismarck is somehow making a post that is ignorant of scum's ability to know who they RBd. He's saying "worcej lying may have fooled them to draw a NK." But he's also subtly suggesting that he knew that worcej was actually telling the truth.

Now, how on Earth am I even remotely hinting I knew Worcej had told the truth about being roleblocked? All I was saying was that VT Worcej may have thought it worthwhile to protect other or outed PRs, and that was a good way to do that ie claiming having been roleblocked.

[BismarckAlive]

If the Roleblock is directed against someone with no action, that is not a "fail" unless the Roleblocker is somehow prevented from getting through. You can be roleblocked whether you actually had an action or not. That's the convention here.

I see no reason to assume Worcej lied.

OK! So, what you are saying is: Worcej is VT. Worcej gets roleblocked. Worcej gets a PM from GM overnight saying "You were roleblocked"? Wow! That surprises me, but I have only played a few games here...

Ok. Let’s go down this rabbit hole. Let’s say worcej was lying? Why would scum kill him? Are you thinking the virus and NEB killed him? If so, why? Show me you can actually think.

Ok. Thought experiment here on possible scum thinking (assuming Damo is Town):

(0) We don't know whether Virus has been redpilled.
(1) Damo just had a brain explosion and outed himself as a PR. 100% nightkill sometime...
(2) Wow! Worcej just claimed having been roleblocked! We know he is not scum, so he is either PR or Virus! Why not kill him first instead and see what he flips?

Maybe VT Worcej simply sacrificed himself for the greater Town good, and scum bought it...

[BismarckAlive]

What scumslip, ghug?

No wonder you have no idea why anyone is voting you.

Bozo and I have at DIFFERENT TIMES identified two possible scum slips from you. Your answer to bozo was a falsehood you then explained away by “pregame confusion.” Your answer to mine was to ignore all my posts about it.

Ok. I will search your massive wall full of irrelevant guff and try find "all" your posts about it.

[BunnyGo]

OK! So, what you are saying is: Worcej is VT. Worcej gets roleblocked. Worcej gets a PM from GM overnight saying "You were roleblocked"? Wow! That surprises me, but I have only played a few games here...

Ok. Let’s go down this rabbit hole. Let’s say worcej was lying? Why would scum kill him? Are you thinking the virus and NEB killed him? If so, why? Show me you can actually think.

Ok. Thought experiment here on possible scum thinking (assuming Damo is Town):

(0) We don't know whether Virus has been redpilled.
(1) Damo just had a brain explosion and outed himself as a PR. 100% nightkill sometime...
(2) Wow! Worcej just claimed having been roleblocked! We know he is not scum, so he is either PR or Virus! Why not kill him first instead and see what he flips?

Maybe VT Worcej simply sacrificed himself for the greater Town good, and scum bought it...

Are you actually not trying at all?

[BunnyGo]

Ok. Let’s go down this rabbit hole. Let’s say worcej was lying? Why would scum kill him? Are you thinking the virus and NEB killed him? If so, why? Show me you can actually think.

Ok. Thought experiment here on possible scum thinking (assuming Damo is Town):

(0) We don't know whether Virus has been redpilled.
(1) Damo just had a brain explosion and outed himself as a PR. 100% nightkill sometime...
(2) Wow! Worcej just claimed having been roleblocked! We know he is not scum, so he is either PR or Virus! Why not kill him first instead and see what he flips?

Maybe VT Worcej simply sacrificed himself for the greater Town good, and scum bought it...

Are you actually not trying at all?

Question:

How does Town!worcej claiming roleblock help town.

Be as detailed as you can.

[BismarckAlive]

"until now half of it flipped town" is not like you. The fact that the town members on the wagon have flipped says little to nothing about the rest of the members.

You may be right that smart scum play is to stay away. But isn't it also smart scum play to push a non-VT to the masses? Is it possible to push that WITHOUT also joining the wagon?

The rest of the members are me and Bismarck. I know I am town and Bismarck just joined when the wagon was already at 3 and didn't talk much about Damo. It could be an opportunistic scum, but he didn't push the wagon so your logic about scum pushing Damo doesn't stand. I know I have a unique POV, but I don't understand why you can't acknowledge this.

I can acknowledge your unique POV. But the statement "The others flipped town, so clearly scum weren't on the wagon" was not your strongest moment.

In fact, I'd say it makes Bismarck look even worse the dynamic you're suggesting. Silently moving to a wagon and hoping another town joins and looks like the bad guy is the BEST way a scum can push. It also explains why no other scum wanted to join the wagon after him; that'd be too much.

Again you are inventing things! I did not move "silently". I scumread Damo666 for questioning (and being the only real questioner) of what I thought was Town's way to almost guarantee a town win ie recruit the Virus quickly. Again, you are simply tunnelling me so people don't look at you and your prolific fluff...

[BunnyGo]

OK! So, what you are saying is: Worcej is VT. Worcej gets roleblocked. Worcej gets a PM from GM overnight saying "You were roleblocked"? Wow! That surprises me, but I have only played a few games here...

Ok. Let’s go down this rabbit hole. Let’s say worcej was lying? Why would scum kill him? Are you thinking the virus and NEB killed him? If so, why? Show me you can actually think.

Ok. Thought experiment here on possible scum thinking (assuming Damo is Town):

(0) We don't know whether Virus has been redpilled.
(1) Damo just had a brain explosion and outed himself as a PR. 100% nightkill sometime...
(2) Wow! Worcej just claimed having been roleblocked! We know he is not scum, so he is either PR or Virus! Why not kill him first instead and see what he flips?

Maybe VT Worcej simply sacrificed himself for the greater Town good, and scum bought it...

I’m having trouble, I believe your scum buddies would have clued you in by now.
It’s amazing you’re making the same scumslip again.

[BunnyGo]

Ok. Let’s go down this rabbit hole. Let’s say worcej was lying? Why would scum kill him? Are you thinking the virus and NEB killed him? If so, why? Show me you can actually think.

Ok. Thought experiment here on possible scum thinking (assuming Damo is Town):

(0) We don't know whether Virus has been redpilled.
(1) Damo just had a brain explosion and outed himself as a PR. 100% nightkill sometime...
(2) Wow! Worcej just claimed having been roleblocked! We know he is not scum, so he is either PR or Virus! Why not kill him first instead and see what he flips?

Maybe VT Worcej simply sacrificed himself for the greater Town good, and scum bought it...

I’m having trouble, I believe your scum buddies would have clued you in by now.
It’s amazing you’re making the same scumslip again.

I can’t. Can somebody else grill him? This is too depressing.

[rdrivera2005]

OK! So, what you are saying is: Worcej is VT. Worcej gets roleblocked. Worcej gets a PM from GM overnight saying "You were roleblocked"? Wow! That surprises me, but I have only played a few games here...

Ok. Let’s go down this rabbit hole. Let’s say worcej was lying? Why would scum kill him? Are you thinking the virus and NEB killed him? If so, why? Show me you can actually think.

Ok. Thought experiment here on possible scum thinking (assuming Damo is Town):

(0) We don't know whether Virus has been redpilled.
(1) Damo just had a brain explosion and outed himself as a PR. 100% nightkill sometime...
(2) Wow! Worcej just claimed having been roleblocked! We know he is not scum, so he is either PR or Virus! Why not kill him first instead and see what he flips?

Maybe VT Worcej simply sacrificed himself for the greater Town good, and scum bought it...

Bismarck, haven't you realized that scum has the roleblock power. So, they know if Worcej was roleblocked or not so all you are saying doesn't make any sense?

Now, Bunny will grill me, but this is also depressing me.

By the way, ##vote emc. If he flips scum I get back to Bunny...

[BunnyGo]

Ok. Let’s go down this rabbit hole. Let’s say worcej was lying? Why would scum kill him? Are you thinking the virus and NEB killed him? If so, why? Show me you can actually think.

Ok. Thought experiment here on possible scum thinking (assuming Damo is Town):

(0) We don't know whether Virus has been redpilled.
(1) Damo just had a brain explosion and outed himself as a PR. 100% nightkill sometime...
(2) Wow! Worcej just claimed having been roleblocked! We know he is not scum, so he is either PR or Virus! Why not kill him first instead and see what he flips?

Maybe VT Worcej simply sacrificed himself for the greater Town good, and scum bought it...

Bismarck, haven't you realized that scum has the roleblock power. So, they know if Worcej was roleblocked or not so all you are saying doesn't make any sense?

Now, Bunny will grill me, but this is also depressing me.

By the way, ##vote emc. If he flips scum I get back to Bunny...

Not gonna grill you.

Do you think Bismarck’s implicit assumptions in his error suggest he knew that scum RBd worcej? That’s what I hear:

“Of course scum will fall for it because we did block worcej”

[BismarckAlive]

Why do you want to protect nanook?

Or I should ask, why do you think Bis is more deserving than Nan?

I've laid out my case against Bis. He's lurking. He's scum slipping (there are two maybes--one caught by bozo, one by me). He was the one who pushed damo more than anyone D1. His entire day 2 ISO is AWFUL!!

Here's how you find it. Go to the bot. Search among all messages. Search for user Bis* (the * means you don't have to type the rest--it looks for anything that starts Bis) and then under phase put D2. Tell me ANYTHING there looks good.

Necessity is the mother of all invention. YOU need ME as the distraction from YOUR SCUMMY BEHAVIOUR, so YOU INVENT anything and everything, then saturate the thread with it, to obfuscate further. It is well known populist theory: invent external enemies to draw attention away from your own weaknesses. Brilliant! Your tunnelling me will get Town nowhere...

[rdrivera2005]

Ok. Thought experiment here on possible scum thinking (assuming Damo is Town):

(0) We don't know whether Virus has been redpilled.
(1) Damo just had a brain explosion and outed himself as a PR. 100% nightkill sometime...
(2) Wow! Worcej just claimed having been roleblocked! We know he is not scum, so he is either PR or Virus! Why not kill him first instead and see what he flips?

Maybe VT Worcej simply sacrificed himself for the greater Town good, and scum bought it...

Bismarck, haven't you realized that scum has the roleblock power. So, they know if Worcej was roleblocked or not so all you are saying doesn't make any sense?

Now, Bunny will grill me, but this is also depressing me.

By the way, ##vote emc. If he flips scum I get back to Bunny...

Not gonna grill you.

Do you think Bismarck’s implicit assumptions in his error suggest he knew that scum RBd worcej? That’s what I hear:

“Of course scum will fall for it because we did block worcej”

I don't know. I just don't see any logic on his thinking so I don't see a scum slip. I get back to my motivation mantra. Why scum Bismarck will say something so bizarre and why nobody on his team gave him any advice to get him out of this hook? To me looks a lot more like a lost townie then a scum faking being lost.