Mafia 57 Matrix

[e.m.c^42]

Nanook having actually shown up, I will ##VOTE SUMMIT. Come out, come out wherever you are...

Question for you: How is publicly voting lurkers any more information than voting EMC? Is that actually who you think is scum? How are you choosing the order of lurkers to vote?

Well, not answering for FoxC but for myself as I'm voting summit and this seems a good place to put it. Based off of meta comparisons.

Out of lurkers/non-active players summit is the most different from usual activity, and iirc he hasn't rolled anything but town so far. It's not completely unfounded to find his actions at the very least odd.

[BunnyGo]

Anyway, my vote on Bunny is serious. I appreciate his objection to EMC, and I even share it, but that's not this game.

I can't tell if you've stopped thinking, stopped reading, or somehow we are completely failing to communicate. It's worrying.

[BunnyGo]

The random votes on seemingly random players. If goldfinger wants petty, that was a petty response. It doesn't actually address my concerns that you're obfuscating, it just obfuscates through noise rather than silence.

THOSE WERE MY READS!!!

I'm recording them in an "easy to archive" way for "lazy" players who don't ISO and don't reread later. AS YOU ASKED!!!

No one is going to come back and look at the bot and be able to tell that! They're going to see you made those votes in rapid succession and they're going to have to assume that you were doing some kind of stunt.

Is getting rid of EMC a viable option?

[Foxcastle]

##vote Foxcastle

You're being unnecessarily petty

How so? I've asked BunnyGo to do something useful, and he seems to refuse, and so I'm voting him. You don't find his behavior questionable?

No, I don't find his behavior questionable. Policy voting EMC is something I can sympathize with, even if I am not necessarily on board with it (because I haven't had to suffer through bad EMC games, so don't have the pleasure of experiencing him ruining one). And I was fine with your position on voting lurkers too. I voted worcej and out he came.

But demanding someone leave a voting record of their true scum reads is petty - especially if you're only demanding it of one person.

...Demanding that everyone treat everyone else in this game equally and that we hold each person to the same standard is foolish.

Bunny's play bothered me, I investigated it, I was unsatisfied with his response, and so I voted him. That's not petty, that's how the game is played.

[BunnyGo]

The random votes on seemingly random players. If goldfinger wants petty, that was a petty response. It doesn't actually address my concerns that you're obfuscating, it just obfuscates through noise rather than silence.

THOSE WERE MY READS!!!

I'm recording them in an "easy to archive" way for "lazy" players who don't ISO and don't reread later. AS YOU ASKED!!!

No one is going to come back and look at the bot and be able to tell that! They're going to see you made those votes in rapid succession and they're going to have to assume that you were doing some kind of stunt.

And again, I don't see how "I voted lurkers" is standout data for later people who don't look at what was going on with your votes and posts without reading. I think you're reading waaaaaay too much into this.

[Foxcastle]

THOSE WERE MY READS!!!

I'm recording them in an "easy to archive" way for "lazy" players who don't ISO and don't reread later. AS YOU ASKED!!!

No one is going to come back and look at the bot and be able to tell that! They're going to see you made those votes in rapid succession and they're going to have to assume that you were doing some kind of stunt.

And again, I don't see how "I voted lurkers" is standout data for later people who don't look at what was going on with your votes and posts without reading. I think you're reading waaaaaay too much into this.

Possibly. I'm rather frustrated at you at the moment, so I'm sure that's not helping.

But the "i KnOw yOu aRe bUt wHaT aM i?" turnabout here is not helping me get past that.

[BunnyGo]

No one is going to come back and look at the bot and be able to tell that! They're going to see you made those votes in rapid succession and they're going to have to assume that you were doing some kind of stunt.

And again, I don't see how "I voted lurkers" is standout data for later people who don't look at what was going on with your votes and posts without reading. I think you're reading waaaaaay too much into this.

Possibly. I'm rather frustrated at you at the moment, so I'm sure that's not helping.

But the "i KnOw yOu aRe bUt wHaT aM i?" turnabout here is not helping me get past that.

Fair enough. Believe me the feeling is mutual.

Let's stop hijacking the thread and take a break.

[Chaqa]

Agree with this. Tom is one of my top townreads until now.

Fox, Rivera, ghug:

Wouldn't scum!Tom know that people would have this exact reaction and perhaps say something like this for exactly this type of town cred?

I think Tom has been the most forthright and open person with their reads all game; not just in this but in the way he townread therul earlier as well. Sure, it might all be some deep ploy (I don't recall having played with Tom before), but frankly all of his reads just come across as straight town, and unless there's a serious reason to reconsider later on I'm quite content on throwing Tom into the town pile. I don't really get the point of this post questioning it either - Do YOU believe he was making that post just to be townread? Or are you just throwing some shade on a widely-townread player without having any intention of following through on it?



@ghug
Goldie may have spoken about the 3P a lot but I think it's stretching credulity a bit to suggest that it's *all* he's spoken about. I don't get the impression today that Bismarck has actually tried to find the scum at any point. I do not get that same impression from Goldie.

Tom's post struck me as odd when I read it, so I said so. People jumped onto it defending him, which seemed odd to me, and Tom is certainly a good enough player to do something like that. This is the same guy who fake claimed a scan to get a scumread shot, after all.

I can't speak to other things he's done, as I haven't read through the beginning of the day yet.

[Foxcastle]

Fox, Rivera, ghug:

Wouldn't scum!Tom know that people would have this exact reaction and perhaps say something like this for exactly this type of town cred?

I think Tom has been the most forthright and open person with their reads all game; not just in this but in the way he townread therul earlier as well. Sure, it might all be some deep ploy (I don't recall having played with Tom before), but frankly all of his reads just come across as straight town, and unless there's a serious reason to reconsider later on I'm quite content on throwing Tom into the town pile. I don't really get the point of this post questioning it either - Do YOU believe he was making that post just to be townread? Or are you just throwing some shade on a widely-townread player without having any intention of following through on it?



@ghug
Goldie may have spoken about the 3P a lot but I think it's stretching credulity a bit to suggest that it's *all* he's spoken about. I don't get the impression today that Bismarck has actually tried to find the scum at any point. I do not get that same impression from Goldie.

Tom's post struck me as odd when I read it, so I said so. People jumped onto it defending him, which seemed odd to me, and Tom is certainly a good enough player to do something like that. This is the same guy who fake claimed a scan to get a scumread shot, after all.

I can't speak to other things he's done, as I haven't read through the beginning of the day yet.

I've already put my opinion on this out there, but I will say that I agree that I found it to be out of character coming from Tom.

[damo666]

Care to explain why?

Your reference to the Chosen has nothing to do with Jamiet and you are blatantly lying.

##vote Damo

Yes it does and no I'm not.

I thought Jamie was admonishing ghug for claiming Chosen One (he wasn't but that is by the by).

Why did you ask what Jamie meant?

Because Jamiet asking that feel weird the same way as your comment, maybe fishing, but his comment was before yours. And his explanation about wanting people to not claiming VT is plausible (but not needed as any PR will also claim VT). But you referenced the Chosen One showing you didn't get the PM reference so you are likely either scum, 3P or PR.
I didn't want to push you right now, but your vote on me doesn't feel like you are town or you would have understood where I was coming from.

I thought Jamie was thinking of Chosen One (not appreciating the PMs). I was wrong simple as that.

I accepy tour explanation.

##unvote

[Hamilton Brian]

@therul, I am noticing that you are changing votes frequently. I am hearing you say that you’re doing it to generate conversation. My question is how does the rapid change, even early in the day, contribute to town cohesion?

@Bunnygo, same question. Your reasoning on emc (anti-town behaviour through not checking in, etc) seems sound enough because it’s tougher to get a read on them.

[ghug]

I think scum-Tom wouldn't say that because he should know that it would draw the kind of attention it did, or that it would draw other negative attention from people objecting that we can't know so we shouldn't speculate (which, of course, is just a round about way of getting to the former...).

Agree with this. Tom is one of my top townreads until now.

Fox, Rivera, ghug:

Wouldn't scum!Tom know that people would have this exact reaction and perhaps say something like this for exactly this type of town cred?

WIFOM is always a possibility, but I've found that being scum is an anxious existence that doesn't inspire people to make the sort of play that draws attention and doesn't get consistent townreads, and usually the straightforward explanation is more likely.

[damo666]

NAI is non-alignment indicative.

Spin it however you want, worcej, but moving from dick jokes to a substantive discussion is always a positive move in my eyes. And having no idea if our PRs had even read the setup (as many here clearly didn't) I wanted to publicize the argument for cooperation.

Besides, the new initiates to the Neb could at any time out-vote the PRs and kill the virus. Everyone needs to be on the same page to build trust and get the virus aboard the plan.

I am the spin master. Some people even call my Spinmaster-Flex!

Your whole 'we need to be on the same page and open' and the fear-mongering by saying 'the people on the neb could just overthrow the PRs' continue to reinforce my opinion you're scum wanting to prevent town advantage.

But don't worry - no one listens to me anyways

This hurts my brain worcej.

You realize the NK goes through before the red pill, right?
You realize that non-town directed NKs are bad, right?
You realize that the only barrier to this plan working is the virus feeling comfortable not being killed once on the Neb.

You realize that damo initially advocated to use the anti-virus on the virus, several people didn't want to lynch the virus, and ghug thought that the third party winning would end the game, right? Among other misconceptions that were cleared up.

Every night delayed in not red-pilling the virus means unnecessary potential townies dead.

Nope. Jamie was talking about daykilling, I was pointing out using anti virus was more efficent. I didn't mean I advocated such.

[Hamilton Brian]

@damo666, I was just going to ask if you stood by your vote on rdr, but I see you just un-voted.

[BunnyGo]

@therul, I am noticing that you are changing votes frequently. I am hearing you say that you’re doing it to generate conversation. My question is how does the rapid change, even early in the day, contribute to town cohesion?

@Bunnygo, same question. Your reasoning on emc (anti-town behaviour through not checking in, etc) seems sound enough because it’s tougher to get a read on them.

My issue with EMC isn't their late voting. It isn't their in and out timing and not checking in. It's the fact he was modkilled TWICE for not voting in recent games. This included one where he promised to do better. Did do better for a day or two. Then was modkilled.

EMC being in the game is anti-town because he WILL disappear at a key moment and cost town a mislynch later (if he's town). Better to pull the bandaid off now.

If I can't get people to understand that, I'll have to move to my highest scumreads. I don't see how my stating them and engaging in methods besides voting hurts town cohesion.

[BunnyGo]

@therul, I am noticing that you are changing votes frequently. I am hearing you say that you’re doing it to generate conversation. My question is how does the rapid change, even early in the day, contribute to town cohesion?

@Bunnygo, same question. Your reasoning on emc (anti-town behaviour through not checking in, etc) seems sound enough because it’s tougher to get a read on them.

My issue with EMC isn't their late voting. It isn't their in and out timing and not checking in. It's the fact he was modkilled TWICE for not voting in recent games. This included one where he promised to do better. Did do better for a day or two. Then was modkilled.

EMC being in the game is anti-town because he WILL disappear at a key moment and cost town a mislynch later (if he's town). Better to pull the bandaid off now.

If I can't get people to understand that, I'll have to move to my highest scumreads. I don't see how my stating them and engaging in methods besides voting hurts town cohesion.

Oh...you were asking about my rapid votes? Sh*t...I owe Fox an apology. People really are that lazy.

Fox, I withdraw my objection to your objections. I overestimated the other players. You were right.

[ghug]

@therul, I am noticing that you are changing votes frequently. I am hearing you say that you’re doing it to generate conversation. My question is how does the rapid change, even early in the day, contribute to town cohesion?

@Bunnygo, same question. Your reasoning on emc (anti-town behaviour through not checking in, etc) seems sound enough because it’s tougher to get a read on them.

My issue with EMC isn't their late voting. It isn't their in and out timing and not checking in. It's the fact he was modkilled TWICE for not voting in recent games. This included one where he promised to do better. Did do better for a day or two. Then was modkilled.

EMC being in the game is anti-town because he WILL disappear at a key moment and cost town a mislynch later (if he's town). Better to pull the bandaid off now.

If I can't get people to understand that, I'll have to move to my highest scumreads. I don't see how my stating them and engaging in methods besides voting hurts town cohesion.

emc is participating right now. Have you considered waiting until he actually does what you're saying he will?

[BunnyGo]

@therul, I am noticing that you are changing votes frequently. I am hearing you say that you’re doing it to generate conversation. My question is how does the rapid change, even early in the day, contribute to town cohesion?

@Bunnygo, same question. Your reasoning on emc (anti-town behaviour through not checking in, etc) seems sound enough because it’s tougher to get a read on them.

My issue with EMC isn't their late voting. It isn't their in and out timing and not checking in. It's the fact he was modkilled TWICE for not voting in recent games. This included one where he promised to do better. Did do better for a day or two. Then was modkilled.

EMC being in the game is anti-town because he WILL disappear at a key moment and cost town a mislynch later (if he's town). Better to pull the bandaid off now.

If I can't get people to understand that, I'll have to move to my highest scumreads. I don't see how my stating them and engaging in methods besides voting hurts town cohesion.

emc is participating right now. Have you considered waiting until he actually does what you're saying he will?

I had, but he’s already done this. And since he waits until last minute to vote, we’ll just get burned with a modkill by surprise one day.

All that said, I’m willing to be wrong. I’ve already been proven wrong once MUCH faster than I thought possible. In that spirit ##vote Hamilton

[Tom Bombadil]

I think Tom has been the most forthright and open person with their reads all game; not just in this but in the way he townread therul earlier as well. Sure, it might all be some deep ploy (I don't recall having played with Tom before), but frankly all of his reads just come across as straight town, and unless there's a serious reason to reconsider later on I'm quite content on throwing Tom into the town pile. I don't really get the point of this post questioning it either - Do YOU believe he was making that post just to be townread? Or are you just throwing some shade on a widely-townread player without having any intention of following through on it?



@ghug
Goldie may have spoken about the 3P a lot but I think it's stretching credulity a bit to suggest that it's *all* he's spoken about. I don't get the impression today that Bismarck has actually tried to find the scum at any point. I do not get that same impression from Goldie.

Tom's post struck me as odd when I read it, so I said so. People jumped onto it defending him, which seemed odd to me, and Tom is certainly a good enough player to do something like that. This is the same guy who fake claimed a scan to get a scumread shot, after all.

I can't speak to other things he's done, as I haven't read through the beginning of the day yet.

I've already put my opinion on this out there, but I will say that I agree that I found it to be out of character coming from Tom.

Can you expand on why you think it’s out of character? Is this purely anecdotal? Or a hunch? Or what?

I speculate all the time about people subbing out. I’m not sure how you reached the conclusion that it is “out of character”

Seems like a hollow read fabricated just to post some sort of read.

[damo666]

##vote bozo

strangely quiet